Player Rankings

[badfish22]

Oh, I didn't realize putting Dirk in the top 10 means I don't think he's great.

Nice discovery,.

i said "that" great there's a difference. Plus it was kinda a joke.


Your jkidd argument is kinda stupid. Jkidd led his team to the finals twice. Chris is led his team to 121-63 and it looks like they might not make the po's this year.

Paul is still a great player just not worthy of being above Dirk

[redzero]

Kidd took two teams to the Finals with Neck Lips and Jefferson. Get back to me when Paul has gotten past the second round. Are you ing kidding me with that weak ?

And he put up the same statistics that Paul did during the Nuggets series over his entire playoff career. Paul's worst series was better than Kidd's entire playoff career performance.

yeah I'd go to war with Dirk Nowitzki. Paul has made it to the second round once. Dirk has won 9 playoff series.

And Dirk has gotten nothing to show for it.

If you want to bring up the Warriors series as some kind of black mark, why does hobbling around on bone spurs count against him, but 121-63 shouldn't count against Chris Paul? Stephen Jackson has never been able to guard a healthy Dirk.

Oh, so you're bringing excuses into this? Don't bring up that Nuggets series if you don't want me bringing up the Warriors series.

Uh, when was that?

2006 and 2007--the years Dirk got to the Finals and won MVP respectively.

Oh, you're talking about 2006-2007 when his two best sidekicks were Josh Howard and Jason Terry, who have 1 All-Star injury replacement selection between them? He hasn't played with an All Star since Nash in 2004. So Dirk was checking Dwyane Wade himself? Dirk was terrible in the last two games of the Finals? Did you watch the 06 Finals?

Oh, so not appearing in All Star games means that Howard and Terry weren't reliable? And while Dirk didn't check Wade by himself, he did let his team lose four straight games in the Finals. He did not have the leadership necessary to win a championship. And I didn't say that Dirk was terrible in the last two games of the Finals. When will Mavs fans learn how to read?

The Mavericks beat the defending champions. They had a 2-0 advantage to a one man team, and lost four straight under Dirk's leadership. And Dirk is your warrior?

I'll take his performances in Games 5 and 6 of the Finals anytime. Circa 2006, you couldn't ask for much more, except for Tim Duncan, Dwyane Wade or Kobe Bryant. Wade was a better player at the time. There's no shame in that.

Too bad two good performances in a first to four series doesn't cut it.

i said "that" great there's a difference. Plus it was kinda a joke.


Your jkidd argument is kinda stupid. Jkidd led his team to the finals twice. Chris is led his team to 121-63 and it looks like they might not make the po's this year.

Paul is still a great player just not worthy of being above Dirk

And I'll repeat myself: Paul's worst playoff series is better than Kidd's playoff career statistically. Paul at his worst performed better than Kidd throughout his career.

When Paul plays like Kidd in the playoffs, he "disappears."

[redzero]

No, you can't. Kobe has four rings, including one he got as the best player on his team.

Kobe got one ring as the best player on his team, but that wouldn't have been possible without the best supporting cast. That's the reason LeBron isn't an NBA champion yet.

I would love to see what Paul could do with the best supporting cast.

We already know what Dirk did.

[badfish22]

@ you trying to put kidds worth in statistics.

[redzero]

@ you trying to put kidds worth in statistics.

It's got to be the mythical intangibles, right? It's a shame Chris Paul isn't put on a pedestal like that, because he could play like crap and people would still praise him if he did.

[badfish22]

He got to the finals twice. Paul is currently leading a team with a good amount of talent that is on pace to not make the po's.
And at you thinkg Jason in Kidd doesn't have intangibles.

[BadOdor]

Kobe got one ring as the best player on his team, but that wouldn't have been possible without the best supporting cast. That's the reason LeBron isn't an NBA champion yet.

I would love to see what Paul could do with the best supporting cast.

We already know what Dirk did.

Let us know when crissy "121-63" paul gets passed beyond the second round.

So far all he has on his resume is his massive game 7 choke and defference to jannero mother ing pargo.

[endrity]

Wait a sec, how in the world do you determine that the Mavs minus Dirk were the best supporting cast in the league for those two seasons?

At their best, in 06, the Mavs were a deep team but filled as it is now with a bunch of specialists, role players good at one thing but not more than that, kind of like it is now. And I am not the first to say that depth matters little in the playoffs. More than a team of good players 2-12, you need another one or two players who can make a difference.

And surely on that basis, the cast that Kobe has now, or that the Celtics have put together is quite a bit ahead of what Dirk had around him.

Also, as for the Kidd v. Paul conversation, there is one quite clear intangible that Kidd has much more than Paul ever will, defense. At his best, Kidd could absolutely shut down positions 1-3. Look what he did to Pierce in ECF 02 or Billups in ECF 03. In fact while somehow we remember those Nets teams as a free flowing, fast break offense, precursor to D'Antoni's Suns, they were not. They were an average offensive team, who struggled a bit in the halfcourt, and generated some of its offense through its amazing defense. And I don't think we are ever going to see Paul, just like Nash, play in a similar kind of team.

[TDMVPDPOY]

kidds peak was only what 2-3 seasons and after that his been living off his reputation....i find him overrated....

[endrity]

Well he had knee surgery after 04 I think, so naturally that slowed him down quite a bit but stats wise he was good before and after his peak.

[TDMVPDPOY]

Well he had knee surgery after 04 I think, so naturally that slowed him down quite a bit but stats wise he was good before and after his peak.

wat sort of excuse is that...

tim duncan had knee surgery also in 99/00, and look what happen...didnt stop him from collecting 3 more rings, b2b mvps etc

kidd atm is just looking for his triple double and calling it a day

[endrity]

Duncan has never had microfracture surgery.

Regardless the point you are making is still well within what we have been saying. Hornetfan was saying that CP3 is a better player because he has stats now that Kidd in his best day couldn't have. When intangibles were mentioned he refuted them as abstract. What I was trying to point out is that in his prime, and we can let that be 2-3 years it doesn't really matter, Kidd was one of the best defenders in the league as well, something which CP3 never will be.

[Donkeybong]

Kobe is ing amazing. Watching almost every laker game this year, he has gotten significantly better, which I didnt think was possible. Havent watched too many Cav games though, so I can't compare him accurately to James.

[Muser]

at thinking that Mavs team had a great supporting cast.

[redzero]

at thinking that Mavs team had a great supporting cast.

I didn't say that Dirk had a "great" supporting cast. As a whole, the Mavericks were the best team in the league in 06 and 07.

[T2150]

Who are your top 10 players based on this season only?

My list is as follows:

1. Kobe
2. Bron
3-6: Dirk, Duncan, Melo, Wade, any order you want
7: Chrissy Paul
8: Dwight Howard
9: Steve Nash
10-13: Durant, Roy, D Will, Gasol, any order you want

1. LBJ
2. Nash (& I'm not even a fan)
3. Mamba
4. Dirk
5. Melo/Timmeh

[milkshakeballa]

Jury would like to state that any list that does not include Kevin Durant is mother ing null and void

[Goran Dragic]

1. LBJ
2. Nash (& I'm not even a fan)
3. Mamba
4. Dirk
5. Melo/Timmeh

Even in Nash's golden age he wasn't better than Kobe.

[JoeTait75]

Nash doesn't play enough defense to be a top-five player.

[sonic21]

I didn't say that Dirk had a "great" supporting cast. As a whole, the Mavericks were the best team in the league in 06 and 07.

Dirk had Josh Howard as a 2nd option. Howard is only playing like a 2nd option against the spurs.

[Findog]

And he put up the same statistics that Paul did during the Nuggets series over his entire playoff career. Paul's worst series was better than Kidd's entire playoff career performance.

When did the Hornets make the Finals? Remind me when that happened please.

And Dirk has gotten nothing to show for it.

Just a better career and more results than Chrissy Paul.

Oh, so you're bringing excuses into this? Don't bring up that Nuggets series if you don't want me bringing up the Warriors series.

You brought up the Warriors series. I just want to know why that should count against Dirk, but 121-63 shouldn't count against Chrissy. Take both of those series away, and Dirk still has a Finals trip on his resume. Chrissy has a trip to the second round.

2006 and 2007--the years Dirk got to the Finals and won MVP respectively.

Uh, ok I guess.

Oh, so not appearing in All Star games means that Howard and Terry weren't reliable?

Kobe Bryant 2009 - Pau Gasol and Lamar Odom
Paul Pierce 2008 - Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen
Tim Duncan 2007 - Manu Ginobili and Tony Parker
Dwyane Wade 2006 - Shaq (still effective)and Udonis Haslem
Dirk 2006 - Josh Howard and Jason Terry

And no, Howard and Terry are anything but reliable. Did you not pick that up in the 2008 Hornets-Mavs series? You probably think Dirk played poorly in that series bc he let West tap him on the cheek. Give Dirk any of those above supporting casts instead of Howard and Terry, and he's covered in bling.

And while Dirk didn't check Wade by himself, he did let his team lose four straight games in the Finals. He did not have the leadership necessary to win a championship.

So even though the overwhelming reason why they didn't win the Finals or beat Golden State the following year was lack of perimeter defense, and Dirk didn't check either Wade or Davis, and Dirk was magnificent in the final two games of the Finals, he did not have the leadership necessary to win a championship. Great take.

And I didn't say that Dirk was terrible in the last two games of the Finals. When will Mavs fans learn how to read?

"He did not have the leadership necessary to win a championship."

The Mavericks beat the defending champions. They had a 2-0 advantage to a one man team, and lost four straight under Dirk's leadership. And Dirk is your warrior?

The Heat were not a one-man team. , have you ever watched a basketball game in your life? Leadership has nothing to do with it. Wade was terrible in the first two games in Dallas. Dirk was terrible in Game 4 and so-so in Game 3. The Heat had better coaching, a better performance from their best player (Dirk was great, Wade was historically good), and they had a low-post presence that made it extremely difficult to double Wade. Yes, Dirk is a warrior. He wouldn't defer to Jannero Pargo in the 4th Quarter of a Game 7 against the Spurs. Define "leadership." Should Dirk have checked Wade or Davis instead of Devin Harris or Jason Terry? Should he have pulled those guys aside and said "No, I got him, even though I'm a 7-foot PF and they're 6'5 shooting guards."

Too bad two good performances in a first to four series doesn't cut it.

Basketball is a team game. Dirk deserves some of the blame, but hardly all of it, for the losses to Miami and Golden State. Just like Chrissy deserves some, but not all of the blame for 121-63.

And I'll repeat myself: Paul's worst playoff series is better than Kidd's playoff career statistically.

And yet Kidd with "subpar statistics" took Neck Lips and Jefferson to the Finals twice, while Paul's team choked at home in Game 7 when he was putting up good stats. Maybe you might try watching a game now and then instead of jacking your weenus to stats?

Paul at his worst performed better than Kidd throughout his career.

No comment or rebuttal required.

When Paul plays like Kidd in the playoffs, he "disappears."

Get back to me when Paul doesn't get locked down by Dahntay Jones or makes it past the second round. Until then, he can't carry Jason Kidd's jockstrap, career-wise.

[Findog]

I didn't say that Dirk had a "great" supporting cast. As a whole, the Mavericks were the best team in the league in 06 and 07.

So they didn't have a "great" supporting cast, yet they were the "best team" in 2006 and 2007. I wonder how that works.

[badfish22]

So they didn't have a "great" supporting cast, yet they were the "best team" in 2006 and 2007. I wonder how that works.

It just speaks to the greatness of Dirk Nowitzki. So he basically made our point for us.

[Findog]

It just speaks to the greatness of Dirk Nowitzki. So he basically made our point for us.

Indeed

[DAF86]

I don't know what the are you talking about but if it is about the '06/'07 Mavs then I have to say that they had a ing great suporting cast, that's why they were the best team in the league. Too bad they couldn't take advantage of it.