90's rules I dont think Jordan would be as successful against Cleveland's frontline. You have physical and imposing big men like Shaq and Varejao waiting down low to clober you.
Top defensive players of today does not carry the offensive load that Lebron does. He is practically the Cleveland Cavaliers offense. Lebron is a better player than what people gives him credit for.
And please dont ever quote Charlie Rosen. This is the same guy who said Lebron will not amount to anything but a good role player in his career.
Just because those players gives Kobe a hard time, it does'nt make them a better defensive player than Lebron. Stopping Kobe is not really that hard anymore. You just put a guy willing to get close to him with long wingspans and he'll struggle against them. Afflalo, Matt Barnes, Battier did a great job defensively on Kobe simply because they have Kobe's numbers, not because they were GREAT defensive players. Its all about matchups.
You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.
1 - Mike Brown is an excellent defensive coach.
2 - You're completely oblivious to how much the game has changed with the new defensive rules. The 91 Bulls never faced the kind of defence NBA teams play these days.
3 - Do you know that perfect score of 10 Nadia Comaneci had in the Olympics? The routine she executed to get that score is now replicated by thousands of 9/10 years old gymnasts around the world. Daly's Jordan Rules are Comaneci's '79 routine. It was pretty amazing - 20 years ago. Now it's pretty ordinary. Mike Brown is way more sophisticated from a strategic point of view than '91 Phil Jackson and it's not even close. Or than Red Auerback in '59.
Was that sarcasm? Throughout their les years the Bulls took on frontlines like Daugherty/Nance/Williams, Ewing/Oakley/Mason, Zo/PJ Brown, Shaq/Horace, Smits/Davis bros,, . I don't think a 38 year old Shaq and Varejao would be enough to stop Jordan or Pippen from going to the rim. They used to dunk on 7 footers because they felt like it...especially in their athletic primes.
For much the same reason Phil Jackson doesn't do it with Kobe or Pop doesn't do it with Duncan, until late in the fourth quarter of close games. You don't exhaust your offensive superstar by making him play the best players on the opposing team for the full 48 minutes. You don't want them to exert more energy than they have to on defense and you don't want them getting into foul trouble. It's the reason why the Lakers have acquired guys like Ariza and Artest so Kobe doesn't have to do it. It's the reason Pop will often put Duncan on the weaker front court player on the opposing team to start the game.
I think you're getting confused with LeBron's ability to defend and his need to defend. His team is pretty good, you know. He doesn't have to play shut-down defender on most nights. But when he does, he will, especially late in games. I'm not one claiming LeBron is a top 3 perimeter defender. I wouldn't go that far. But, he's certainly not a mediocre or average perimeter defender, as has been suggested by some in this thread.
Let's put it to you this way. Say you're the coach of the Cavaliers. They're up by 1 point against a good team with a great offensive perimeter player with 15 seconds left in the game. Whoever it is against, Kobe, Wade, Joe Johnson, Brandon Roy, Carmelo, Paul Pierce... whoever. You're the head coach. Again, 15 seconds left and the Cavs up by 1 point. Are you going to put LeBron on those guys or Delonte West?
Exactly.
Who said what I posted had ANYTHING to do with Kobe? in fact my inclusion of Dontay Jones had more to do with his work on C3p not kobe as Paul is more of a PERIMETER Player ...you do know what the word means. I did not say WING defender but either way i still sTAND by my post ...
But glad your infatuation with Kobe comes up in a Bulls cavs discussion ...
Do you keep a bottle of Jergen's on your nightstand for when you dream of kobe at night?
Riiight. The most hyped up, talked about and praised nba player ever is underrated. Doesn't do much for your argument, friendo.
That is one point you do get right Mike Brown is GRREAT DEFENSIVE coach in fact his defnse was SO IMPRESSIVE that the offensive mastermind Stan Van Gundy was able to torch it in 4 out of 6 4th quarters last season.
Seriously though he is a good defensive coach.
But back to my point. I agree defense has evolved the game always does. But i can argue the other way the bulls shooters shot from a REAL 3 point line. Were better pure shoters and faced hand checking. From a Pistons team with Rodman (when he played GREAT defense still), Salley as shot blocker, Dumars a really god perimeter defender and Mahorn a GREAT post defender ... Defensively that team was MUCH better than this year Cavs ...
Interesting reply but how does that even come close to proving the original argument who would win a series?
You argue Lebron is a top notch defender, will cancel out the GOAT, Brown is a great defensive coach blah, blah blah but none of that is convincing me but nice try.
I bet you were one of teh ones that argued USC was one of teh greatest teams ever BEFORE the rosebowl vs. Texas ...
Good post. But review the thread ...i said that. All im saying is that those who claim he is a great perimeter defender are overstating the facts. I said for ONE posession i would want Kobe, lebron or Dwade ...
But for a game i would choose a more defensive minded player. My point about Lebron not gaurding the best players was that if he was on a consistent basis if he was THAT good a smart coach would do that with all the talent on the team now ...but the facts are that a wEst or Parker will defend better because of their MINDSET ...they dont defend they don't play ...but at least you sent and intelligent reply ...i respect that.
Yes he is. And the Cavs lost the series to Orlando due to lack of offensive diversity.
What the heck does this mean?
You have some serious reading comprehension problems. Here's what I wrote:Were better pure shoters and faced hand checking. From a Pistons team with Rodman (when he played GREAT defense still), Salley as shot blocker, Dumars a really god perimeter defender and Mahorn a GREAT post defender ... Defensively that team was MUCH better than this year Cavs ...
Interesting reply but how does that even come close to proving the original argument who would win a series?
You argue Lebron is a top notch defender, will cancel out the GOAT, Brown is a great defensive coach blah, blah blah but none of that is convincing me but nice try.
Are you a fan of the Lakers or something?I think the Cavs would put a fight but their second best player is Anderson Varejao and that would probably condemn them to a 5 games loss.
What the are you talking about? Rosebowl? I've only heard about Rosebud. It was a sled, btw.
Let me summarize for you ...
1. What the real 3 point line means they moved it in ...mid 90's to combat the great thugging defense of that era. The point being is you say the game has change with your weak ass gymnast analogy and the '59 Celts ...
Im saying the rule changes have benefited modern teams. The first Bulls run was at the end of the NBA's best decade better compe ion still under the old rules.
2. Yes I am a laker fan. But i was talking about the Cavs and Bulls (you i guess are a Celts fan) WTF does that have to do with THIS argument?
3. I gave you a list of ALl the past 30 champs and almost all have at least 2 fuure HOF'er and some had 3 ...
You contered with the 94 Rox great point they the 2004 pistons and MAYBE last years lakers are the only examples ...every other time I was right in 30 years ...
Look i enjoy good debates and we are arguing a hypothetical in both cases.
No way I can prove Bulls would win or that Lebron is not a great defender or that Mike Brown is a crappy offensive coach ...
Even if i i consider myself informed it's still ONLY an OPINION as is yours ...this was fun no hard feelings mojogrove ...
LOL!
Look, they shortened the 3 point line in 94 or 95, but 3 seasons later it was reverted to the original distance, 23-9. The 3pt line the '91 Bulls played with was exactly the same the Cavs currently play with. New rules benefited modern teams? That doesn't even make sense, in any given year everybody plays under the same rules (theoretically at least).
Being a Lakers fan gives you a justification for your difficulties to understand simple things, that was all.
It's unfortunate you're definitely unable to understand how your "2 HoFers even if one isn't even playing at an All-Star level" argument is so silly.
We all know that i am better then Jordan. Too bad my teammates arnt that good.
You forgot something here...
I use KY jelly.
Wasnt just talking about 3 point line ...hand checking being able to use zone
My point was that the Bulls faced tougher compe ion, tougher rules and played and faced better defense ...
What does me being a Laker fan have to do with my basketball a en?
You are a dimwitted Celts fan but yet I dont hold it against you. Tried to end this with class but of course ...you tried to drag me in the mud with sily insults but what else would I expect from a Boston fan?
Good luck in the post-season hope to see you in june.
pip would shut lebron down.
Pippen wouldn't be able to shut him down. The best he can do with Lebron is make him work extra hard for his points and wear him down over the course of the game...use his length and quickness to deny Lebron the ball, make him shoot jumpers as opposed to giving up layups or fouls for free throws. Jordan and Pippen had the foot speed to cut off Lebron's first step. Pippen would usually try to beat the ball-handler to the spot and take the charge but with Lebron's star power I doubt Pip would get the call lol. And since Lebron isn't much of a post player yet neither Pippen or Jordan wouldn't have to worry about him in that regard.
On the flipside Lebron would also have to guard either Jordan or Pippen throughout the game instead of conserving energy for offense. I don't think they would be able to avoid it since the matchups wouldn't favor it.
Mo on Paxson
Parker on Jordan
Lebron on Pippen
Jamison on Grant
Shaq on Cartwright
Unless they switch it up and put Jamison on Pippen and Lebron on Grant.
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