Morris cracking open another Clinton scandal...

[Yonivore]

In other words you're playing the exact same game as Yoni, but you're trying to move the ball over the opposite goal line. You two deserve each other.

I resent that, McVeigh actually did perpetrate his act in response to the Waco seige. Carried it out on the 2nd anniversary and said as much in his "authorized biography."

Name a terrorist motivated to act by any of the people name by boutons .

[Winehole23]

Nothing justifies what McVeigh did in OKC. Nothing justifies what Koresh did at Mt. Carmel. And, nothing justifies what Clinton/Reno did there either.

Fair enough. Perhaps your emphasis was more explanatory and less apologetic than it first seemed.

Hey, I'm just reminding everyone what was supposedly McVeigh's principle motivation. Don't shoot the messenger.

Well, we gave Tim McVeigh a lethal injection. Would you like a cookie?

But, shouldn't Clinton probably keep his trap shut about inciting violence? Particularly when he invokes an act allegedly motivated by something he did?

More puny chest thumping. I guess I can understand wanting Bill Clinton to shut his trap, but your case frankly failed at delivery.

The JRome-esque weasel word modifies the word that carried all the weight for you, Yoni -- motivated. This "motivation" was the only stated basis for the "clear link to the OKC dead" you posed upstream. Remember?

[word]

The ATF was pissed at Weaver because they wanted him to be an informat for them. It's been so long I forget the details, but he ended up declining and they went after him.

Hey, he got an apology in a congressional hearing and was awarded a couple of million. I think it's well established the gov screwed up. The injustice here was, the ATF agent that shot his wife, didn't do a day in prison.

[Winehole23]

What Bill Clinton thinks is no longer germane in the political sense. He more belongs to the world of gossip, the tabloids and the paparazzi. He remains pertinent and perhaps important at the level of journalism.

[Winehole23]

Don't like Bill Clinton? Don't listen to him. I don't.

[word]

I truely believe, that Bill Clinton is a sociopath. Likeable guy, smooth, polished. But what sociopath isn't ? Fact is a lot of our politicians and ceo's are probably sociopaths. True all over the world. Like the cub scouts and the priesthood attract pedophiles, politics attracts a certain personality type.

[Winehole23]

You don't need some strained, uber-cranky semantic argument linking Bill Clinton to the OKC bombing, in order to give yourself permission to ignore him.

At least, I don't.

[Winehole23]

I truely believe, that Bill Clinton is a sociopath. Likeable guy, smooth, polished. But what sociopath isn't ?

Hunter S. Thompson thought the same thing. Have you read Confessions of a Political Junkie?

[Yonivore]

Found this at Volokh, Winehole. Go argue with David Kopel, he's apparently given this more thought than either of us.

Waco

With President Clinton wagging his finger at the Tea Party movement and claiming that the movement is inciting violence, it is worthwhile to remember the role the Clinton administration in perpetrating and covering up numerous violent and other crimes at Waco. The subject is treated at length in my book, co-authored with Paul Blackman, No More Wacos: What’s Wrong with Federal Law Enforcement and How to Fix It. This page provides a summary of the book, a free copy of the first chapter, two law review articles (on the warrant, and on police militarization), several shorter articles, and videos of speeches regarding Waco.

Just to be clear to the trolls who comment without reading: The book describes the Branch Davidian false prophet Vernon Wayne Howell (a/k/a David Koresh) as a predatory sociopath and a criminal. And of course nothing in the book attempts to justify that other sociopath Timothy McVeigh. Nor does the book claim that federal agents deliberately started the fatal fire, although it does point out that before the fire began, at least some of the victims had already been killed by the CS chemical warfare bombardment and tank attack.

That's all I've been saying.

[Winehole23]

perpetrating and covering up numerous violent and other crimes at Waco

Not so clear cut, IMO. But it sure ain't pretty.

[Winehole23]

I resent that, McVeigh actually did perpetrate his act in response to the Waco seige. Carried it out on the 2nd anniversary and said as much in his "authorized biography."

Maybe you play the game a little better than Boutons, but I wouldn't brag on that too much.

Name a terrorist motivated to act by any of the people name by boutons .

I don't carry water for Boutons. Rather, I was criticizing both of you for being blinkered, reflexive partisans.

[word]

Hunter S. Thompson thought the same thing. Have you read Confessions of a Political Junkie?

Have not. Hunter S. Thompson book ? ( I suppose I could like....look that up on the innernets...)

[Winehole23]

http://books.google.com/books?id=30B...page&q&f=false

[Yonivore]

Maybe you play the game a little better than Boutons, but I wouldn't brag on that too much.

Not good enough.

B just spouts without any justification, support, or evidence. I actually make the connection. And, if you look back, I think you'll find the trends, for both of us, are fairly consistent in that regard.

I accurately cite Timothy McVeigh as having said the Waco siege was motivation for the Oklahoma City Bombing.

Boutons-deux just says conservative talk radio hosts incite violence without so much as pointing to any act of violence, connected to anything said by any conservative talk radio host.

We're not playing the same game.

I don't carry water for Boutons. Rather, I was criticizing both of you for being blinkered, reflexive partisans.

And, on one count, I call foul.

[word]

awesome...I like page 108...'taken at face value...'

Gonzo was just pure genius...you know I met him once in Colorado and I use the word 'met' very loosely. Saw ...

[Winehole23]

Not good enough.

B just spouts without any justification, support, or evidence. I actually make the connection. And, if you look back, I think you'll find the trends, for both of us, are fairly consistent in that regard.

I accurately cite Timothy McVeigh as having said the Waco siege was motivation for the Oklahoma City Bombing.

It's what you do with the citation that makes you a hack. McVeigh blames Clinton for the OKC dead. You seemed to be blaming it on Clinton too. My bad.

Boutons-deux just says conservative talk radio hosts incite violence without so much as pointing to any act of violence, connected to anything said by any conservative talk radio host.

We're not playing the same game.

You brag too much. You are.

Boutons is more PFA than you, I'll agree with that. You're definitely more of a twistifier, Yoni, though you're not above just making stuff up.

[Winehole23]

awesome...I like page 108...'taken at face value...'

Gonzo was just pure genius...you know I met him once in Colorado and I use the word 'met' very loosely. Saw ...

That's really neat. Story?

[Yonivore]

It's what you do with the citation that makes you a hack. McVeigh blames Clinton for the OKC dead. You seemed to be blaming it on Clinton too. My bad.

Nope, wasn't blaming Clinton for OKC. Just pointing out he had a lot of chutzpah invoking OKC as a manifestation of right-wing dissent when, in fact, it was his administration the bomber held out as motivation. That's all.

You brag too much. You are.

Boutons is more PFA than you, I'll agree with that. You're definitely more of a twistifier, Yoni, though you're not above just making stuff up.

Obviously, I disagree.

[Winehole23]

Nope, wasn't blaming Clinton for OKC. Just pointing out he had a lot of chutzpah invoking OKC as a manifestation of right-wing dissent when, in fact, it was his administration the bomber held out as motivation. That's all.

So then, the OKC was a manifestation of right wing dissent, or it wasn't? Please pick one.

[Winehole23]

Obviously, I disagree.

Fair enough.

[Yonivore]

So then, the OKC was a manifestation of right wing dissent, or it wasn't? Please pick one.

It was the manifestation of an anti-government lunatic. But, again, you avoid the point...

[DMX7]

Hunter S. Thompson thought the same thing. Have you read Confessions of a Political Junkie?

Hunter S. Thompson was also on a lot of drugs, a lot.

[DMX7]

It was the manifestation of an anti-government lunatic. But, again, you avoid the point...

Does "anti-government lunatic" better describe the far left or the far right?

[Winehole23]

It was the manifestation of an anti-government lunatic. But, again, you avoid the point...

Avenging the innocent against a satanic and oppressive government. And?

You think Clinton's speech about OKC shows him out as an unbearable hypocrite and fraud; I thought he already was one.

[Winehole23]

You seem to delight in the unmasking; it merely bores me.

Vive la difference.