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Sigh . . . RJ was swiping down at the ball. The face contact was incidental. Kobe swung his arms after shooting to hit his defender. How can those two even be compared?
http://www.makingpages.org/hoops/Malone.danger.html
The Early Years: The Ramer Incident
When Karl Malone was still in college, he threw an elbow that sent Rice center Dave Ramer to the hospital and ended his career.
From the December 6, 1984 Washington Post:
Rice junior center Dave Ramer will undergo reconstructive surgery Friday in Houston to repair multiple injuries suffered in what Coach Tommy Suitts says was an intentional elbowing incident in Monday's game against Louisiana Tech. Ramer has a depressed cheekbone, fractures above and below his right eye socket and a collapsed sinus after the incident involving Louisiana Tech's Karl Malone.
Malone had gone up for a rebound and came down swinging his elbows. Ramer was unfortunate enough to be in the same area code. The blow shattered Ramer's cheekbone, and he went down screaming in pain. Malone just looked at him and walked away. Malone's coach was so appalled by Malone's behavior that he went out on the court and told Malone to go back and show some decency and concern. Let me repeat that for emphasis:
Malone's coach made him go back out on the court and act like he cared.
It was obvious that he didn't. Malone muttered a forced apology, but of course Ramer was in no condition to hear it.
Ramer never played basketball again. Amazingly, instead of going to jail or being sued, Malone went on to the NBA and his career flourished. But he didn't stop sending people to the hospital.
Sigh . . . RJ was swiping down at the ball. The face contact was incidental. Kobe swung his arms after shooting to hit his defender. How can those two even be compared?
The league has spoken. If a blatant throwdown by the neck doesn't deserve a suspension, then neither does anything Dirk did.
If you guys are seriously talking about Dirk shoving Blair, forget about it. That was playground stuff. And you need to be clear about the rules - there is a big difference between an ejection and a suspension. Ejection is for the remainder of this game, suspension is for the entire next game. Dirk isn't even on the radar screen for a suspension.
I thought you were talking about the elbow that broke Manu's nose. Dirk wasn't specifically trying to hit Manu with an elbow, but he does do the same thing Malone used to do. He thrashes around with those elbows extended to clear space. The message is, "Give me some room, and you won't get hit with an elbow." He does it all the time against teams that are guarding him close. Every now and then, someone like Ginobili steps into one. And make no mistake - a solid elbow to the face has a good chance of being season-ending.
I would never say a word, as long as he keeps it below the shoulders. But if you have the game recorded, look at how many times he lashes with those elbows at head height. (A lot of the time, he makes one swing low and then the other direction higher.) The league needs to warn him and the team, just like they warned Bruce about undercutting shooters. Both things are too dangerous, and too avoidable. When you're endangering another player's season, it doesn't matter what your intent is. I know Dirk doesn't like defenders in his jock, but that's basketball. Maybe he just has a natural dislike for defense on both ends of the floor?
But don't start whining about stuff like that shrug-off on Blair. He was riding Dirk like a horse, and if it had been the other way around you would be congratulating the rookie for not backing down. If the refs were trying to calm the game down, they probably should have called a double technical, so that both players would be on notice to stop the bull . It doesn't always seem fair, but they have to keep the game under control. Instead, what they did raised the temperature. It was bad officiating. (Note to Mavs fans: it is possible to see both sides. Dirk's not a dirty player, period. But those elbows are a bad habit.)
Absolutely correct.
Just ask Landry and his dentist.
It wasnt pushing/shoving...Dirk was throwing elbows out of frustration through the last half of the game...he threw an elbow at head level, knowing that Blair was directly behind him. That is enough to deduce intent IMO. Garnett got the suspension because he landed, but to me if there is intent, contact shouldn't be the determining factor. To only step in after someone takes a shot to the head is bull, it shouldnt take possible injury for the league to step in.
Not only that, but Dirk calling it a "streetfight," his team is the one that took it to that level...and our guys admirably stayed out of it. Now, Terry says its going to get worse, essentially threatening to up the level of dirty play from game 4...the league should step in here and do something preemptively to let the Mavs know that this head-slinging, elbow throwing, bull wont be tolerated.
Dirk is acting like a spoiled , flailing his arms because he cant get a call. But it shouldnt take contact to get the league to step in.
you re s.
the only thing close to a suspension from that game was the najera move. dirk did nothing close.
Both are judgment calls, and you're stating your opinion about it as though it's fact. Kobe wasn't aiming at Manu's face, he was just trying to draw a foul, so a case could be made that it's incidental contact. A case could also be made the Jefferson was aiming at Dirk's head and not the ball, which would then make it an infraction capable of drawing a suspension.
My point is that if someone with no knowledge of the NBA rulebook wants the league looking at Dirk's overly confrontational attempt to disengage from Blair, which is really all it was, then they're probably not going to like the league looking at RJ's flagrant.
If I'm mistaken about which play we're talking about and Dirk actually threw an elbow that I'm not aware of, then the question should really be why he didn't get a second technical.
Dirk "I love David Hasselhoff" is an elbow swinging, friend to Jason Terry, dumbass. He, Najera, and their ing coach, who obviously sent that sold out piece of in to take Manu out in his 40 seconds, are a disgrace to themselves and anyone forced to hang around with them. They all should be suspended by themselves, if they had an ounce of self respect (which is doubtful). the Dallas Mavericks and all their- walkoutwhenthechiparedown- phony ing Dallas fans.
Last edited by spurs10; 04-27-2010 at 11:26 AM.
Im not saying a suspension is warranted, but the league needs to issue a warning, to let Dallas know that we are not going to take it to a "nut punching" level. Tell the Mavs to clean it up. I dont want hear Terry sending messages to the Spurs, trying to intimidate our guys because he thinks that is the only way they can win. And I dont want to see Dirk throwing elbows every time he has the ball...he's already broken Manus nose... the mavs.
This is a really lame discussion. The answers are easy.
1) Dirk sort of swung an elbow (it was more like a flailing arm) but he came nowhere near actually hitting Blair's head. Therefore simple technical is the right call.
2) Berea's hit on Ginobili was not a deliberate elbow swing, it was a somewhat accidental bump while trying to defend a layup.
3) Jefferson was simply swiping down at Dirk's arms and the ball to prevent him from getting a layup. He happened to graze Dirk's face on the way down. In a normal game that would not have been called a flagrant foul, but the refs were trying to make sure the game didn't get out of control.
A flagrant 1 or a technical foul for arguing is kind of like a yellow card in soccer. It's a warning that the ref is just not going to allow that, and if you do it again, you're gone. The flow and temperature of the game influences the decision whether to issue it or not.
This is stupid. It's called playoff basketball, and emotions are high. There is nothing dirty going on. If every player got suspended for the things some of you are crying about there would be no one left to play by the time the first game in the Championship series started.
The thing between Blair and Dirk was far from anything malicious. Blair was all up on dirk and they go tangled and dirk flailed to get free. His action was a bit out of frustration but there was nothing sinister about it Dirk got the foul move on...
No he didn't "flail to get free", he wasn't tied up. He took an aggressive swing in Blair's general vicinity but not right at him.
No it isn't "playoff basketball", it's a pissy little response to someone bodying up on him. It was pretty laughable actually.
This must be homerism that makes people believe such rubbish. For those of you that think this, I'd ask you to go look at the replay.
Dirk did the exact same thing in an earlier game in this series. It's a primadonna move when someone dares to touch him without being whistled, that's true, but it's nowhere near being "aggressive". Blair raised his arm to make it a little tougher for Dirk to disengage, and he did a good job of keeping his cool so it wouldn't look like he baited Dirk into getting a technical. As was mentioned, the refs could have (and for the sake of game control, SHOULD have) called a double technical and warned both benches to knock their off.
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