Were the past 2 months a mirror of Manu's career?

[picc84]

lol jammed finger

And Nash had his eye shut cause he was sleepy.

[z0sa]

You've played with both, I assume?

You're the one saying one injury >> the other.

Have you played with both enough to make that distinction? Now, have you played with both enough at a pro-level with pro doctors to make a distinction?

The reality is that stats back up Manu being himself. Thriving for a while, then playing bad again, then thriving again. Thats who he is. The nose is just your convenient excuse for the year, something you guys are very, very good at.

What stats do you speak about? Which time periods are Manu "thriving", according to you, and which time periods is he playing "bad"?

Manu has always been a better player in the playoffs, so I think you're about to go down a road that will only cause you more embarrassment.

Didnt Rip Hamilton play with a mask for a whole year? And his whole job is just to run around like a chicken with its head cut off. He never seemed to get too gassed to contribute. Or maybe Pistons fans just dont make excuses.

What does Rip Hamilton wearing a protective mask as a preventative measure over a long period of time have to do with Manu wearing a splint/bandage as a temporary bandaid on a pretty serious face injury for a short period of time?

Two totally different situations with totally different factors that totally cannot be compared in this context.

Dont remember Nash playing much differently after his nose got torpedoed in 2007. And dont forget him closing out the Spurs with one eye last night.

You don't remember as well as you'd like.

How can you make these excuses and look at yourselves in the mirror, spurs fans? Don't you ever get tired?

doesn't LAfan ever get tired of being bags and frontrunners?

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

lol jammed finger

And Nash had his eye shut cause he was sleepy.

That's what an Avulsion Fracture is, a jammed finger. Just because Kobe decided to slap a band-aid on it doesn't make it any worse than it is.

[picc84]

You're the one saying one injury >> the other.

Have you played with both enough to make that distinction? Now, have you played with both enough at a pro-level with pro doctors to make a distinction?

Fingers are involved in every bball related function. Shooting, dribbling, defense, passing, etc.

How many are the nose involved in?

cue "breathing"

That you even act like this is comparable is a joke.

What stats do you speak about? Which time periods are Manu "thriving", according to you, and which time periods is he playing "bad"?

Is or is not Manu Ginobili an inconsistent player who's biggest knock has been periods of excellence followed by periods of underachievement.

I've heard this from Spur fans for years, and now you're going to try an act like i'm the one making it up?

Manu has always been a better player in the playoffs, so I think you're about to go down a road that will only cause you more embarrassment.

Manu has been a beast in the playoffs for many years, sure. All i'm saying is that his postseason this year has exemplified the criticisms of him over the years. A monster one game and a pup the next. Nose ed up or not.

What does Rip Hamilton wearing a protective mask as a preventative measure over a long period of time have to do with Manu wearing a splint/bandage as a temporary bandaid on a pretty serious face injury for a short period of time?

Two totally different situations with totally different factors that totally cannot be compared in this context.

Rip fractured his nose 3 times in the 2004 season and had to wear a mask while it was still ed up. The same season they won the championship.

You wanna tell me he can zoom around the court until June after getting his nose pushed in 3 TIMES and Manu can't handle being guarded by Jared Dudley for 4 games?

Thats whats really good?

You don't remember as well as you'd like.

19/12 and 18/14 in the games following his nose busting. Nash is a warrior.

Guess Manu isn't.

doesn't LAfan ever get tired of being bags and frontrunners?

Nah.

[z0sa]

Fingers are involved in every bball related function. Shooting, dribbling, defense, passing, etc.

How many are the nose involved in?

cue "breathing"

That you even act like this is comparable is a joke.

What's more important to your overall health, being able to use one of your ten fingers, or breathing?

Is or is not Manu Ginobili an inconsistent player who's biggest knock has been periods of excellence followed by periods of underachievement.

Why are you asking me? I never argued this.

I've heard this from Spur fans for years, and now you're going to try an act like i'm the one making it up?

Where did I say you made anything up? I simply asked you for some source material - I guess you're unable to provide any then?

Manu has been a beast in the playoffs for many years, sure. All i'm saying is that his postseason this year has exemplified the criticisms of him over the years. A monster one game and a pup the next. Nose ed up or not.

You're all over the board, apparently.

Rip fractured his nose 3 times in the 2004 season and had to wear a mask while it was still ed up. The same season they won the championship.

You wanna tell me he can zoom around the court until June after getting his nose pushed in 3 TIMES and Manu can't handle being guarded by Jared Dudley for 4 games?

Thats whats really good?

For the second time now: two totally different situations that cannot be compared in this context.

19/12 and 18/14 in the games following his nose busting. Nash is a warrior.

Guess Manu isn't.

That's what you've been waiting to say the whole thread, we realize. So instead of arguing your re ed contentions, just come out and be the we all know you are.

Nah.

[JamStone]

I dont know who Joe Mauer is, and i'm not too familiar with Jay Cutler.

I don't know if you're serious or not. But fine. I'll use this example instead.

Kevin Durant: 6'9, 230 lbs.
Paul Pierce: 6'7, 235 lbs.

Same size according to your logic, right?

Or...

Chauncey Billups: 6'3, 202 lbs.
Jamal Crawford: 6'5, 200 lbs.

Same sized players, right?

What I do know is that Dwade has had seasons at similar sizes as Ginobili and has never had the consistency problems he has. Wade only bulked up after the le season, NOW there is a noticeable size difference between the two. Back then, no.

At the time of the 2003 NBA Draft, Dwyane Wade was essentially the same size he is now. For evidence, please click the following links to see his measurements at the time of the 2003 combine:

Draft Express combine measurement history 2003: Dwyane Wade, 6'475" in shoes, 212 lbs.

nbadraft.net listed measurements: Dwyane Wade, 6-5, 212

I'm not sure where you are coming up with the notion that Wade had only bulked up since the Heat's le season. It's simply not true. However, I'd be more than happy to allow you to provide some evidence to that contention. Wade has added maybe 5 or so lbs., but it has not been a noticeable increase in muscle mass or bulk. And he was already a thick and muscular physical specimen before his championship season, even before he entered the NBA.



The kid was a tank in college before he played in the NBA. He did not have the slender build Manu has. Where is your evidence to that claim?

One is consistent. The other isn't. Thats the only difference.

They are not the same size. They don't have the same build or physique. Looking on paper to see their height and weight measurements simply doesn't support that claim. Wade is and always has been (even before the Miami le) a much more muscular athlete that would seemingly be able to handle more physical play and the amount of hits and fouls a player like him would endure during the course of a season much better than a more slender player like Manu would be able to.

One has always been the #1 option on his team and almost always takes the most shots on his team, even in his championship season when Shaq was there. The other has always been an unselfish team player who was more than willing to play a back-up role to Duncan and/or Parker if either or both were having good shooting nights. What you suggest is Wade's "consistent" play is a product of the Heat's offense always running through him.

Manu can be inconsistent at times. But that is much more of a product of the team he's on and the way he plays. It's Ginobili's unselfishness, his willingness to play a role for the team, and understanding if his teammates are scoring at a better clip that he doesn't have to take so many field goal attempts.

Now his level of play might drop off late in the season, but I don't think that's really connected to "consistency" or "inconsistency." His numbers, especially his scoring numbers, aren't always indicative of whether he's playing well or not. Often, it's a product of teammates playing well and him deferring to them.

[Ghazi]

lol piccc

[picc84]

I don't know if you're serious or not. But fine. I'll use this example instead.

Kevin Durant: 6'9, 230 lbs.
Paul Pierce: 6'7, 235 lbs.

Same size according to your logic, right?

Or...

Chauncey Billups: 6'3, 202 lbs.
Jamal Crawford: 6'5, 200 lbs.

Same sized players, right?

At the time of the 2003 NBA Draft, Dwyane Wade was essentially the same size he is now. For evidence, please click the following links to see his measurements at the time of the 2003 combine:

Draft Express combine measurement history 2003: Dwyane Wade, 6'475" in shoes, 212 lbs.

nbadraft.net listed measurements: Dwyane Wade, 6-5, 212

I'm not sure where you are coming up with the notion that Wade had only bulked up since the Heat's le season. It's simply not true. However, I'd be more than happy to allow you to provide some evidence to that contention. Wade has added maybe 5 or so lbs., but it has not been a noticeable increase in muscle mass or bulk. And he was already a thick and muscular physical specimen before his championship season, even before he entered the NBA.

The kid was a tank in college before he played in the NBA. He did not have the slender build Manu has. Where is your evidence to that claim?

Dwyane Wade circa 2006





Dwyane Wade circa 2010




Dwyane Wade on bulking up (from 2008):

http://www.mensfitness.com/sports_an...etes/86?page=2

At first sight, it looks like Dwyane Wade has put on some solid muscle, which he acknowledges. "Yeah I bulked up," he says. "This is probably the strongest I've been."

As i'm sure you can see, there is a noticeable difference between Wade 4 years ago and Wade now. He made a conscious effort to get bigger and stronger since the championship season, which is why he appears so much larger than Manu now.

My point was about Wade then, when his frame was comparable to Manu. He proved that a player of that size with an attacking style can indeed survive a season playing at a consistent high level.

No one on earth would have described Wade as a "tank" his first few years in the NBA. He was the definition of the lithe, slender fast guard.

They don't have the same build or physique.

Similar build and physique.

Looking on paper to see their height and weight measurements simply doesn't support that claim. Wade is and always has been (even before the Miami le) a much more muscular athlete that would seemingly be able to handle more physical play and the amount of hits and fouls a player like him would endure during the course of a season much better than a more slender player like Manu would be able to.

Pierce/Durant and your other example were good counterclaims. 2005/2006 Wade and Ginobili, however, did share similar frames.

One has always been the #1 option on his team and almost always takes the most shots on his team, even in his championship season when Shaq was there. The other has always been an unselfish team player who was more than willing to play a back-up role to Duncan and/or Parker if either or both were having good shooting nights. What you suggest is Wade's "consistent" play is a product of the Heat's offense always running through him.

Manu was the Spurs #1 option for much of this year, and the offense ran through him. It ran through him during the Dallas series and through him during the Phx series. He's been the primary playmaker and ballhandler through pretty much the entire postseason. If Wade took on Manu's role on the Suns, either of two things would happen.

1. He would produce more, even in the reduced role that Manu supposedly has, because his game is more consistent.

or

2. He would become the primary option anyway, because he is more reliable than Ginobili is on a consistent basis. The offense in Miami didn't run through Wade for no reason.

You can have an offense run through you at all times and not average 30ppg and 6apg like Wade does. You act like anyone in that position would produce at that level - they can't.

Now his level of play might drop off late in the season, but I don't think that's really connected to "consistency" or "inconsistency." His numbers, especially his scoring numbers, aren't always indicative of whether he's playing well or not. Often, it's a product of teammates playing well and him deferring to them.

Of course they aren't. I was the first one to point out during the Dallas series when he had a bad shooting game but a fantastic overall game. I love Manu. He's the definition of an intangible guy.

But he did not play well versus Phoenix. And it wasn't because he was banged up.

[JamStone]

No, I don't see a noticeable difference between 2006 Wade and 2010 Wade. Absolutely honestly.

No, I don't think Manu Ginobili at any point in his career now or before had a similar build to pre-2006 Dwyane Wade. Wade has always been stockier and more muscular than Manu in my opinion.

Manu can be the number 1 option on the Spurs in any given game. He doesn't always have to be, nor is he. Wade is ALWAYS the number 1 option on the Heat.

Whether he's been healthy or injured, whether he's been the main option most of the year or the third option, whether he's starting or coming off the bench, Manu has often put up inconsistent numbers. And those inconsistent numbers are "mostly" a product of how Pop uses him and constantly changes what he asks Manu to do for the team, whether coming off the bench or starting, whether needing Manu to be aggressive with his scoring or asking Manu to take on more of a facilitator (PG type) role to set people up. I don't think what you suggest as Manu being "inconsistent" is due to health and injury. I think it's mostly because he's asked to do different things and he's unselfish when it comes to worrying about his statistics.

I'll give you a few playoff series stats for Manu.

2008 playoff series against Phoenix Suns when the Spurs won in 5 games and the year Manu really had become the main guy on the team on offense for that season:

Points/Assists/Rebounds/FG-FGA
24/5/4/10-24
29/3/3/9-17
20/1/5/7-11
10/1/4/4-8
8/0/3/2-11

2007 7-game classic playoff series against Dallas where the Mavs beat the Spurs to finally get past the Spurs they year the Mavs went to the Finals:

Points/Assists/Rebounds/FG-FGA
15/0/5/5-14
13/1/2/4-11
24/2/3/7-16
26/2/3/8-11
18/5/4/6-13
30/2/10/8-14
23/2/2/6-11

2005 epic 7-game NBA Finals against Detroit, where many had felt that Manu deserved the Finals MVP over Duncan:

Points/Assists/Rebounds/FG-FGA
26/2/9/10-16
27/7/3/6-8
7/0/4/2-6
12/3/4/4-9
15/9/6/5-16
21/3/10/7-17
23/4/5/8-13

As you can clearly see, even when he's considered to be playing well, even when he's the main guy, he puts up inconsistent numbers because of the team he plays for, because of what Pop asks him to do, and because of his teammates.


As you acknowledged, Manu's inconsistent numbers doesn't mean he's not playing well. But when his level of play late in the season and in the playoffs does drop, I think you can absolutely point to wear and tear on his body from the regular season due to his style of play as being ONE of the factors. Not the only one, but one of them.

Manu did not have a very good series against the Suns. I didn't argue he didn't. But, I think you can point to a number of things why that's the case. I think all the hits he takes during the season and in the first round does affect him and his body and subsequently his sustained level of play. And I do think his nose injury did affect him too. Not the only reasons. Suns played pretty good defense and Manu sometimes just didn't have his game on, but I think you can factors those things I mentioned.