Under Obama, deportations at all-time high

[Winehole23]

Did anyone notice in today's Express News that the Irish are now trying to get support for some kind of work-for-citizenship or amnesty plan? I think that they mentioned that about 50,000 of the illegal aliens in the U.S. are Irish.

Who knew?

God bless the Irish and all my Irish ancestors. There's more than a few, and their country is kindly in the crapper again. Low tax haven got ed.

[Wild Cobra]

So why would anyone be against an illegal paying fines and back taxes in order to apply for citizenship?

Isn't money pretty much the biggest folks have about the immigrants?

that. They break into our country. They have no respect for the law, and you want to give them a bye?

We have immigration quotas and an immigration system for a reason. We have plenty of our own low skilled labor that we need to put to work. We don't need law-breakers.

Most countries only allow immigration if you contribute to society and have the means to take care of yourself. There are plenty of them who want to come here, and should be first in line.

Were you the first grade bully who always cut in line? You must have been since you advocate such unethical behavior.

I guess you like Mexico and other countries with high poverty rates exporting their poverty. If so, I suggest you sponsor some yourself. Put your money where your mouth is.

[Wild Cobra]

Damn skippy. That was the last comprehensive immigration reform proposed in the USA. GWB's own party deep sixed it.

Deep sixed because their base complained and soundly said "No Amnesty!"

Yeah. People without direct contact don't really understand how hard a Mexican works in this country, the great variety of necessary work performed, and what a boon it is to capitalism that so many people are willing to work so hard, for so little.

Most of us do know how hard they work, and there are several aspects about them to be admired. Shows just how good we treat our lazy people. If we didn't have such good social benefits, we would have people here willing to work hard too. Allowing illegal immigration is a net loss of national wealth. It does do well for the companies paying for their wages, but it does nothing to raise our standard of living as a whole. We subsidize their medical, housing, food, etc. We are already subsidizing our own poor that we need to put to work instead.

Supply and demand again. You remove the ability to higher a illegal work force, and the wages will have to rise to the point you find willing employees. If this price is too high, then it is a definite indicator that welfare pays too much.

[Winehole23]

Allowing illegal immigration is a net loss of national wealth.

Link?

[ChumpDumper]

that. They break into our country. They have no respect for the law, and you want to give them a bye?

No, I want them to pay for what they have done. The amnesty program would allow for that. Does merely deporting them cover any fines or back taxes?

We have immigration quotas and an immigration system for a reason.

Yeah, feel-good window dressing.

We have plenty of our own low skilled labor that we need to put to work. We don't need law-breakers.

We want cheap food and lawn care and housing.

Most countries only allow immigration if you contribute to society and have the means to take care of yourself. There are plenty of them who want to come here, and should be first in line.

That's exactly who would be allowed to stay under the amnesty rules of that bill. Thanks for agreeing with me.

Were you the first grade bully who always cut in line? You must have been since you advocate such unethical behavior.

No. I wasn't. I'm simply realistic.

I guess you like Mexico and other countries with high poverty rates exporting their poverty.

No, I recognize that most immigrants come here to work. It makes more sense to make them legal and taxpayers.

If so, I suggest you sponsor some yourself. Put your money where your mouth is.

If they were in an amnesty program, they would be paying the money.

[Winehole23]

The Comptroller’s office estimates the absence of the estimated 1.4 million undo ented immigrants in Texas in fiscal 2005 would have been a loss to our Gross State Product of $17.7 billion. Also, the Comptroller’s office estimates that state revenues collected from undo ented immigrants exceed what the state spent on services, with the difference being $424.7 million (Exhibit 18).

http://www.window.state.tx.us/specialrpt/undo ented/

[Winehole23]

While not the focus of this report, some local costs and revenues were estimated. State-paid health care costs are a small percentage of total health care spending for undo ented immigrants. The Comptroller estimates cost to hospitals not reimbursed by state funds totaled $1.3 billion in 2004. Similarly, 2005 local costs for incarceration are estimated to be $141.9 million. The Comptroller estimates that undo ented immigrants paid more than $513 million in fiscal 2005 in local taxes, including city, county and special district sales and property taxes. While state revenues exceed state expenditures for undo ented immigrants, local governments and hospitals experience the opposite, with the estimated difference being $928.9 million for 2005.

[Winehole23]

By 2025, a good portion of the work force and population changes would lessen, but in all regions the employment and gross regional product declines would remain sizable, indicating that the economic impact of undo ented immigrants is unlikely to be replaced by other economic changes (Exhibit 16).

[Winehole23]

This tightening would induce increases in wages, as indicated by a rise in average annual compensation rate. Wage rates would rise by 0.6 percent in the first year and stay above the forecast rate throughout the entire 20-year period.



While pay increases can be viewed as a positive social and economic development, when they rise due to labor shortages they affect economic compe iveness. In this case, it would be expressed as a modest decline in the value of Texas’ exports.
The remaining broad economic measures all point to an initial impact of undo ented immigrants of about 2.5 percent in terms of the value of production and wages in the Texas economy. Eliminating 1.4 million immigrants would have resulted in a 2.3 percent decline in employment, a 2.6 percent decline in personal income and a 2.8 percent decline in disposable personal income in 2005. This change also would generate a 2.1 percent decline in the gross state product (GSP), the broadest measure of the value of all goods and services produced in Texas.



While none of these changes are surprising, the one finding that may appear unusual is the persistence of the decline. If no in-migration were possible other than from natives or authorized immigrants, employment would remain 2 percent below the baseline forecast 20 years later. The impact lessens over time, but remains sizable throughout the 20-year forecast period.



The primary adjustment the model makes to compensate for the loss of these undo ented migrants is initially a rise in the wage rate, which would induce some new in-migration into Texas and some additional participation in the labor force from current residents. Moreover, with wages rising relative to capital, there would be some subs ution of capital for employees so the need for additional workers is lessened through productivity increases. But the fact that the Texas economy cannot adjust completely to the loss of this labor through these changes and retain its compe iveness ultimately means that relative to the rest of the world the cost of production in Texas is higher, making our goods less compe ive in the international marketplace and decreasing the size of the Texas economy.

[Duff McCartney]

So you are saying that although you will fight for your far left ideals, you still can see the color gray, even if its just a little bit. I wouldn't (by my definition) consider you a left winger then. When I add winger to the end of a political description I see foaming at the mouth and completely unreasonable black and white extremists (though you couldnt have known my definition before now).

Well I consider my views to be far left, I'm a communist in some ways, but I also know that communism will NEVER EVER work.

Michael Savage states that Reagan saved the world from Communism...I don't think Reagan saved the world from Communism, I think humanity saved the world from communism. You know..the underlying greed that is within everybody and the apathy towards other people that we have...that's what saved the world from communism.

[RandomGuy]

His base should be PO'ed, his kneejerk detractors, pleasantly surprised.

I would definitely put myself in the former category, alright.

[RandomGuy]

Allowing illegal immigration is a net loss of national wealth.

I call "bull ".

Put up some data, or withdraw it as bull .

The one comprehensive attempt I saw at estimating the totality of effect put it at a positive number, actually.

[Wild Cobra]

I call "bull ".

Put up some data, or withdraw it as bull .

It's obvious. Sorry you cant see it.

I'm not going to bother looking. Like most topics, there will be evidence of both pro and con.

I will not withdraw my statements as bull . I have seen too many jobs lowered in wages to compete with the illegals. Construction in my area is one that has taken a dramatic hit. My ex-wife was making $15/hr 5 years ago working for a cleaning service, and less today. I think $13/hr. Her boss had to lower wages to compete. It was that, or lose his business, and for her to lose a job.

The one comprehensive attempt I saw at estimating the totality of effect put it at a positive number, actually.

By who's spin?

Only one?

[ChumpDumper]

It's obvious. Sorry you cant see it.

I'm not going to bother looking. Like most topics, there will be evidence of both pro and con.

But you have no evidence beyond anecdote.

[Wild Cobra]

But you have no evidence beyond anecdote.

Well, I don't live by links and I think it's pathetic that you do.

[ChumpDumper]

Well, I don't live by links and I think it's pathetic that you do.

Well, I don't live by getting drunk at home alone on a weekday morning and I think it's pathetic that you do.

[spursncowboys]

Well I consider my views to be far left, I'm a communist in some ways, but I also know that communism will NEVER EVER work.

Michael Savage states that Reagan saved the world from Communism...I don't think Reagan saved the world from Communism, I think humanity saved the world from communism. You know..the underlying greed that is within everybody and the apathy towards other people that we have...that's what saved the world from communism.

so the russians going broke trying to keep up with our defense spending had nothing to do with the collapse of ussr? it was hopes and dreams that took down communist iraq?

[rjv]

so the russians going broke trying to keep up with our defense spending had nothing to do with the collapse of ussr? it was hopes and dreams that took down communist iraq?

what are you talking about here ?

[EVAY]

so the russians going broke trying to keep up with our defense spending had nothing to do with the collapse of ussr? it was hopes and dreams that took down communist iraq?

SnC, I agree with you on this one. It WAS the arms race that eventually bankrupted the USSR.

It is equally true, however, that the same arms race doubled the U.S. debt under Ronald Reagan's administration. I was upset about that at the time.
I don't remember any Republicans fussing about their grandchildren's debt load at the time, however.

Wars are expensive...even cold ones.

[admiralsnackbar]

so the russians going broke trying to keep up with our defense spending had nothing to do with the collapse of ussr? it was hopes and dreams that took down communist iraq?

The USSR had been going broke for decades anyway. Perestroika happened as a result of ideological change within the party despite the story we've been told as gospel here in the US. Read "Russia and the Idea of the West," by Robert English or "Lenin's Tomb" by David Remnick, which won the Pulitzer.

[ChumpDumper]

Communist Iraq?

[EVAY]

The USSR had been going broke for decades anyway. Perestroika happened as a result of ideological change within the party despite the story we've been told as gospel here in the US. Read "Russia and the Idea of the West," by Robert English or "Lenin's Tomb" by David Remnick, which won the Pulitzer.

Admittedly, the other side of the 'broke' factor was that they were terrible at MAKING anything that brings in money, so there was that.

Moreover, social change theory shows repeatedly that approximately 70 years after a major social upheaval, particularly a government change like a revolution, there is a weakening of the fervor that brought about the change, and it is the time period of the greatest likelihood that said change will be reversed. Not only was the USSR right on schedule for that to happen, so was the U.S. at the period of the Civil War.

It is a remarkably consistent finding. Not perfect. But remarkably consistent.

[ChumpDumper]

Yes, yes -- communism was working until the 1980s, right?

[admiralsnackbar]

Admittedly, the other side of the 'broke' factor was that they were terrible at MAKING anything that brings in money, so there was that.

Moreover, social change theory shows repeatedly that approximately 70 years after a major social upheaval, particularly a government change like a revolution, there is a weakening of the fervor that brought about the change, and it is the time period of the greatest likelihood that said change will be reversed. Not only was the USSR right on schedule for that to happen, so was the U.S. at the period of the Civil War.

It is a remarkably consistent finding. Not perfect. But remarkably consistent.

Interesting. It makes sense, but I don't believe I'd ever heard of this theoretical pattern.

What discipline does it come from? Sociology?

[EVAY]

Interesting. It makes sense, but I don't believe I'd ever heard of this theoretical pattern.

What discipline does it come from? Sociology?

yes. not much that is useful ever came from sociology, but this is proof, I suppose that a blind hog occasionally finds the acorn, as well.