Marcus Jordan on twitter : It's an insult to my dad to compare Kobe to him

[hitmanyr2k]

I watched like 6 minutes of that video. So the Knicks trying to knock MJ to the floor is what you consider good physical defense? How does that affect field goal % again? And the entire video is just arrows pointing to all 5 Knicks players who are within 15 feet of MJ when MJ gets into the paint.

I don't consider knocking Jordan to the floor good defense. But it'll make the guy think twice about going in the paint over and over . And those arrows illustrated just how much attention he got. Whenever he even got near the free throw line he had the attention of the whole team waiting on him and on top of that they got away with more contact back then. I think Jordan would take seeing Ray Allen or Tony Allen on him rather than that Knicks defense anyday.

[Blackjack]

Heard this type of argument before, actually recently. And don't buy it. Your argument boils down to the fact Jordan is better because he was born before Kobe.

"Blazing paths" or being the "first" isn't what really distinguishes Jordan from Kobe. It's just that Jordan was better. Period. Not because he was first. Not because Kobe comes after. Jordan was just better.

Allen Iverson and KG and Dirk are the types of players that are "trail blazers" or "first of their type of player." Unique and so different than players before them. But that fact alone wouldn't make you argue they are better than Kobe.

Jordan is just better than Kobe. Period. Not because he's first. Because he's better.

No, you misunderstood. I said even if he manged to have it all click mentally (the biggest differentiation between the two is between the ears, IMO) he would only be the second to do it. He couldn't be considered better or his equal, even if technically he probably was the latter. That's all I was saying.

It's all about what drives the two's compe iveness that separates them, IMO. MJ was an ornery asshole who simply couldn't accept losing and would do whatever it took to get it done. Kobe's always been plagued by an immaturity and insecurity that prevents him from ever truly reaching that Jordan plateau. MJ, for all his faults, was genuine. He was what he was, for better or worse; there's always been a layer of fugazi at Kobe's foundation.

[TheMACHINE]

Well we know where Marcus gets his insecurity's from.

[Mikesatx]

MJ never had anywhere near the frontcourt Kobe has had with each le.

[TheMACHINE]

MJ never had anywhere near the frontcourt Kobe has had with each le.

woopty doo. Im sure MJ is happy with a top 50 player as his side kick.

[D2Procon]

MJ never had anywhere near the frontcourt Kobe has had with each le.

Nor does Kobe have anywhere near the backcourt Kobe has had with each le.

[namlook]

If Kobe wasn't comparable his son would not be all butthurt and defensive feeling the need to trash talk about his dad.

[Amaso]

I don't consider knocking Jordan to the floor good defense. But it'll make the guy think twice about going in the paint over and over . And those arrows illustrated just how much attention he got. Whenever he even got near the free throw line he had the attention of the whole team waiting on him and on top of that they got away with more contact back then. I think Jordan would take seeing Ray Allen or Tony Allen on him rather than that Knicks defense anyday.

So what you're saying is the 90s defenses were better because players were afraid to go into the paint because they didn't want to get hit?

It doesn't matter how much attention you get when you're in the paint, both eras of defenses collapse on any player trying to get in the paint. You act like MJ had to face the legendary Knicks defense because they collapsed the paint! I remember watching those series, the Knicks were a great defensive team there's absolutely no doubt about that.

And you made another point that doesn't even make sense, you're just grasping at straws to try to defend MJ. Tony Allen is a better solo perimeter defender than anyone on those Knicks. It's not like MJ would be iso'd against Tony Allen in today's league, or against the Celtics. He'd be surrounded by the rest of the Celtics defenders.

Anyways, you're a good poster so I'll leave the rest of the debate go.

[JamStone]

No, you misunderstood. I said even if he manged to have it all click mentally (the biggest differentiation between the two is between the ears, IMO) he would only be the second to do it. He couldn't be considered better or his equal, even if technically he probably was the latter. That's all I was saying.

It's all about what drives the two's compe iveness that separates them, IMO. MJ was an ornery asshole who simply couldn't accept losing and would do whatever it took to get it done. Kobe's always been plagued by an immaturity and insecurity that prevents him from ever truly reaching that Jordan plateau. MJ, for all his faults, was genuine. He was what he was, for better or worse; there's always been a layer of fugazi at Kobe's foundation.

In between the ears is actually where Kobe is most like Jordan. Jordan was more dominant on the court. He put up better numbers. He was more efficient. He has more individual awards and honors. But Kobe's mental approach and will to win is where they are most alike.

Jordan would do anything to win... as long as it was on his terms. Just like Kobe. Look at game 6 of the 1996 NBA Finals. Similar. Look at game 6 of 1998 where Jordan put up 35 FGA. As long as it was on Jordan's terms, he'd do whatever it took to win. That's Kobe as well. The difference is that Jordan always won his way. He was always the alpha male, and once he started winning, he never could be touched after that.

[Spursfan092120]

This is undeniable IMO, the zone/man hybrid defenses are beyond any defense from before zone was allowed. Boston is a monstrous defensive team. Just look at FG% from guards in the 80s and 90s compared to now. Do you honestly think guards have gotten that much worse since then? Or was it maybe better defense forcing tougher shots and more outside shots?

The defensive game has changed since then. The hand check rule has made things much easier on guards nowadays.

[BullsDynasty]

Kobe will never be better than MJ nor will he ever ascend to that level due to his mediocrity for 3 years as the man of the team. That will forever be a stain in his legacy.

[Blackjack]

In between the ears is actually where Kobe is most like Jordan. Jordan was more dominant on the court. He put up better numbers. He was more efficient. He has more individual awards and honors. But Kobe's mental approach and will to win is where they are most alike.

I agree that they're very similar in their maniacal drive and will to win, but I strongly disagree that it comes from the same place. Again, Jordan knew who he was, what his strengths were and weren't, and he simply wouldn't be denied. He shot a higher percentage because he played more from the free-throw line down (Wade's game actually resembled MJ's game at it's best more than Kobe's, IMO -- Kobe's game resembles more of the late-'90's Jordan), in the post and didn't jack up the amount of threes Kobe does.

Kobe's drive has always come from an insecurity and a need for validation, IMO. He wasn't going to be Jordan, he was going to be better than him. He wasn't going to play to his strengths on the court and play the percentages, he was going to prove that he was simply better than everyone else; he was going to jack up those contested fadeaway threes or jumpers to prove a point. The way he was viewed or perceived meant more to him than winning as just another great player. It had to be on his terms and his terms didn't happen to coincide with sound decision making for his individual game or the team's. It had to be spectacular and better than everyone else. He had to one-up the GOAT, and he knew you couldn't do that by simply being who he was.

Jordan would do anything to win... as long as it was on his terms. Just like Kobe. Look at game 6 of the 1996 NBA Finals. Similar. Look at game 6 of 1998 where Jordan put up 35 FGA. As long as it was on Jordan's terms, he'd do whatever it took to win. That's Kobe as well. The difference is that Jordan always won his way. He was always the alpha male, and once he started winning, he never could be touched after that.

Again, the difference between their terms is where the differentiation lies.

Jordan's terms necessitated that he be the Alpha Dog and the ultimate decider of his team's fate, while Kobe's necessitated that he be the Alpha Dog and win in a fashion that was both aesthetically pleasing and otherworldly. He had to prove that conventional wisdom or the mere nature of the NBA game, as it pertains to team success, was something he had to overcome and not embrace; because, unlike Jordan, Kobe wasn't the genuine Alpha Male that commanded both a fear and respect. Kobe had all the tools and ability you'd find in a Alpha Male, but there's more to it than that.

It's really all falls right in line with that "it" factor. When you watched Jordan's interaction with his peers, almost from the minute he joined the league, and the way he was revered and feared throughout, that's the difference. Men wanted to be him, women wanted to be with him. He was THE MAN.

Kobe's respected and feared for his game but he's not the cult of personality or domineering individual Mike was. MJ simply had a mental edge over his opponents that I've never seen before and probably will never see again. He was the Genuine Article. Kobe's just got Genuine game.

I often wonder had Kobe been humbled at an early age the way MJ was and then been forced to go to college for a few years if he might've actually put it all together. Most that I've put forth could simply stem from immaturity and had he not been given and forced into the spotlight so early on, he just might've had a real chance to legitimately be said to be MJ's equal.

But then again, there's that "it" factor. And that simply can't be taught.

[Killakobe81]

I agree that they're very similar in their maniacal drive and will to win, but I strongly disagree that it comes from the same place. Again, Jordan knew who he was, what his strengths were and weren't, and he simply wouldn't be denied. He shot a higher percentage because he played more from the free-throw line down (Wade's game actually resembled MJ's game at it's best more than Kobe's, IMO -- Kobe's game resembles more of the late-'90's Jordan), in the post and didn't jack up the amount of threes Kobe does.

Kobe's drive has always come from an insecurity and a need for validation, IMO. He wasn't going to be Jordan, he was going to be better than him. He wasn't going to play to his strengths on the court and play the percentages, he was going to prove that he was simply better than everyone else; he was going to jack up those contested fadeaway threes or jumpers to prove a point. The way he was viewed or perceived meant more to him than winning as just another great player. It had to be on his terms and his terms didn't happen to coincide with sound decision making for his individual game or the team's. It had to be spectacular and better than everyone else. He had to one-up the GOAT, and he knew you couldn't do that by simply being who he was.



Again, the difference between their terms is where the differentiation lies.

Jordan's terms necessitated that he be the Alpha Dog and the ultimate decider of his team's fate, while Kobe's necessitated that he be the Alpha Dog and win in a fashion that was both aesthetically pleasing and otherworldly. He had to prove that conventional wisdom or the mere nature of the NBA game, as it pertains to team success, was something he had to overcome and not embrace; because, unlike Jordan, Kobe wasn't the genuine Alpha Male that commanded both a fear and respect. Kobe had all the tools and ability you'd find in a Alpha Male, but there's more to it than that.

It's really all falls right in line with that "it" factor. When you watched Jordan's interaction with his peers, almost from the minute he joined the league, and the way he was revered and feared throughout, that's the difference. Men wanted to be him, women wanted to be with him. He was THE MAN.

Kobe's respected and feared for his game but he's not the cult of personality or domineering individual Mike was. MJ simply had a mental edge over his opponents that I've never seen before and probably will never see again. He was the Genuine Article. Kobe's just got Genuine game.

I often wonder had Kobe been humbled at an early age the way MJ was and then been forced to go to college for a few years if he might've actually put it all together. Most that I've put forth could simply stem from immaturity and had he not been given and forced into the spotlight so early on, he just might've had a real chance to legitimately be said to be MJ's equal.

But then again, there's that "it" factor. And that simply can't be taught.

Good post. But stay away from the psychoanalytical bull .

No one knows what is in Kobe's or Jordan's mind. This is a LOT of conjecture on your part.

Unless you have a psych degree leave that to the professionals ...

[SevenX]

Who gives a about this stupid argument. We all know Jordan is better. I still would rather have Kobe over any other player right now on my team.

I'm just happy he helped out in other areas of the game when his offense was so ty.

[Bukefal]

He is right of course, but he shouldn't even be saying it. Kobe is nowhere near Jordan and never will be. Kobe should not even deserve to be mentioned togethere with michael.

[MiamiHeat]

Lol

Kobe has picked Phil Jackson's mind to copy everything Jordan did. The way MJ practiced, the length of practices, game preparation, etc and etc.

Here's the fact :

Kobe has copied MJ and failed, no iden y.

MJ was his own man.

Therefore, Kobe doesn't exist without MJ.

But since MJ invented MJ, he is obviously the basketball genius and God of basketball.

Whereas Kobe, just a talented mimic.

If you deny the fact that it's harder to CREATE MJ than to just copy MJ, then you are ing stupid.

It takes a genius, a special once in a lifetime player to do that. MJ was that. Kobe is not.

[SevenX]

Lol

Kobe has picked Phil Jackson's mind to copy everything Jordan did. The way MJ practiced, the length of practices, game preparation, etc and etc.

Here's the fact :

Kobe has copied MJ and failed, no iden y.

MJ was his own man.

Therefore, Kobe doesn't exist without MJ.

But since MJ invented MJ, he is obviously the basketball genius and God of basketball.

Whereas Kobe, just a talented mimic.

If you deny the fact that it's harder to CREATE MJ than to just copy MJ, then you are ing stupid.

It takes a genius, a special once in a lifetime player to do that. MJ was that. Kobe is not.

So, before you posted this, were you sucking on MJ's , or did you give MJ's balls a hitler stache and proceed to lick his balls?

[RsxPiimp]

So, before you posted this, were you sucking on MJ's , or did you give MJ's balls a hitler stache and proceed to lick his balls?

Dude is just obviously trolling, everytime...best to not pay attention and I guarantee people like it will go away.

[lebomb]

Look.............MJ is MJ, there is no other MJ. Kobe isnt MJ. MJ will always be MJ to everyone. Those who want others to be MJ know nothing about MJ. Because there is only one MJ. NO, Kobe isnt another MJ. Repeat after me. One MJ, one MJ, one MJ...........MJ is MJ!!!!! Period.

[resistanze]

Who the is Marcus Jordan. Sounds like an R&B singer.

[4down]

Nor does Kobe have anywhere near the backcourt Kobe has had with each le.

This.

[Blackjack]

Good post. But stay away from the psychoanalytical bull .

No one knows what is in Kobe's or Jordan's mind. This is a LOT of conjecture on your part.

Unless you have a psych degree leave that to the professionals ...

This reply leads one to believe that he didn't actually appreciate the post as he suggests but suggested as such to cushion the blow. To be respectful in his butthurt.

Of course it's conjecture. It's an opinion based on the way a particular player has comported and conducted himself. It's an opinion; something I made very clear, as at no time did I state as fact.

Common sense may not be common but it ain't something you need a degree for.

The Omnipotent One has spoken.

The gambler.

The psychologist ...





















...who purchased his degree on Craigslist.

[Killakobe81]

[QUOTE=Blackjack;4431539]This reply leads one to believe that he didn't actually appreciate the post as he suggests but suggested as such to cushion the blow. To be respectful in his butthurt.

Of course it's conjecture. It's an opinion based on the way a particular player has comported and conducted himself. It's an opinion; something I made very clear, as at no time did I state as fact.

Common sense may not be common but it ain't something you need a degree for.

The Omnipotent One has spoken.

The gambler.

The psychologist ...






















...who purchased his degree on Craigslist.[/QUOTE

I Genuinely thought your post was good.

I just hate bull conjecture of what is going through a player's mind or their motivations and such. Pet peeve of mine ...

I agree with a great deal of what you said.

But

you leave that part out it is much stronger argument ...

that statement makes it reek of bias ...

I know you sated IMHO but it's a message board we get that ...

[JamStone]

I'll put it this way. If Jordan was drafted by a team with Shaquille O'Neal joining at the same time, I don't think that makes Jordan's legacy any greater. In fact, I think it diminishes it. Jordan would similarly be labeled the second fiddle to Shaq. And similarly, Jordan's ego wouldn't allow the marriage to last. And Jordan would not go down as the GOAT.

To me, Jordan's situation didn't necessarily dictate his greatness. But Jordan's ego dictated his situation. So the claim is made that Jordan's teams necessitated him being the alpha male. Ok. But Jordan was never put on the same team with a talent as good or better than his, certainly not a dominant big man on which the perceived league success was predicated. I'd say with a guy like Hakeem, Jordan would have been option number 2. How those Bulls teams were constructed gave Michael Jordan the opportunity to become the greatest player of all time. Make no mistake about it, Jordan is the GOAT. Unquestionable. Undeniable. But factor in that situation. Kobe joined one of the most dominant centers of all time. Dominant big men are the most effective mismatch in basketball. It's how the league was built. Jordan never had to confront that power struggle. He never had to dance that tango.

If Kobe was given what Jordan was given, could he have done the same in that same era against that same compe ion? Probably not, not to the same degree of success anyway. But I don't know for sure. But, I truly believe if you give Jordan one of the most dominant big men ever, it doesn't help Jordan's greatness. It hurts it. He'd face the same power struggle. He'd face the same diminished statistical greatness. He'd face the same egocentric inner struggle he would have to temper in order for the team to win.

Situations were/are different. And that's why it's so hard to really say what is and what might be when you throw out scenarios trying to compare the two, especially when the discussion gets into trying to overly praise one or religiously try to discredit the other. I'm a Jordan hater and a Kobe apologist, so I do it all the time. But it happens vice versa as well.

[Blackjack]

I Genuinely thought your post was good.

I just hate bull conjecture of what is going through a player's mind or their motivations and such. Pet peeve of mine ...

I agree with a great deal of what you said.

But

you leave that part out it is much stronger argument ...

that statement makes it reek of bias ...

I know you sated IMHO but it's a message board we get that ...

Call it what you will but when the topic was posed, I simply stated my view.

As to not knowing what's going through someone's mind? Yeah, we never really know what's going through someone's mind. But it's not all that crazy to draw some conclusions as to the type of person someone is from their actions and by the way they conduct themselves.

I don't disagree with Jam that the situations and cir stances dictated an apples to oranges scenario in that respect, but my opinion basically comes down to the men they were and what that led them to be on the court.

Contrary to popular belief, you can have a great disdain for a person and player and still have a great respect for his game. This is the approach I've always had with Kobe. I'm not some Jordan fanboy trying to do whatever's in my power to discredit Kobe's claim to MJ's throne. If I honestly believed he was his equal or better, I'd tell you. But it seems with a lot of fans you're never going to get an honest debate if their guy is seemingly being dissed or diminished, which is a no-win proposition when you're telling someone their not as good as the GOAT; saying he's not as good as the greatest of all-time is somehow a slight because he's the loser of the argument.

I believe Kobe's most likely the second greatest 2-guard of all-time and a Top-10 player when it's all said and done, maybe better than that. So nothing I've said is about Kobe being inept or not worthy of being discussed with the greats, I just don't think there's any legitimate argument to say that he's better than MJ or his equal.

That's just my honest opinion.