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Well, if you acuse me of saying things I never said, then I can do the same.
I think I read somewhere that Kobe at age 31 has already surprassed Jordan's career total games played. Bryant has a lot more wear than a normal 31 years old BB player.
Well, if you acuse me of saying things I never said, then I can do the same.
Kobe shot 45.6% from the field this past season. His career FG% is 45.5%.
How is that showing decline?
It's been basically his entire career where Kobe has had his fair share of 10-for-30 type shooting performances. This was not new to this past season. It's not an original criticism of Kobe's game.
It's cool to jump to Reggie Miller at age 36 and bypass the fact that when Reggie was 35 years old, he averaged 19 ppg and played 39.3 minutes per game. And it wasn't like Reggie was ever a 30 ppg type player. Most of his career, even in his prime, he was a 19-21 ppg scorer. So being right there at the low end of his prime scoring pace, Reggie showed that conditioning into his mad 30s was fine. Kobe in his prime was around a 30 ppg scorer. In 3 years, Kobe will be 35. Him scoring around 25 ppg and playing around 35 mpg is not only reasonable, it's foreseeable with again what I say about his conditioning and work ethic.Miller averaged 12 ppg at age 36, that's hardly elite and Malone although he had the numbers most would agree that he wasn't elite in the latter stages of his career, and let's not forgett that these guys at age 32 didn't have near the wear that Kobe has right now. I think Kobe can still be a 20 ppg, 35 mpg guy in his mid 30s, but that won't be enough for LA to remain a contender, imo.
It's easy to discredit Karl Malone's numbers when he was old because it doesn't suit your argument...
1999-2000 Karl Malone, age 36, 15th season in the league, 25.5 ppg, 35.9 mpg, 2nd team all NBA, finished 4th in MVP voting, Utah still won 55 games.
Last edited by JamStone; 07-07-2010 at 12:09 PM.
EX-ACTLY!"but, but...he had no help. LeBron can't do it all by himself!"
Son, there's no need to lie. You clearly said manu>dirk.
With your messi obsession(lol messi had a "good" WC), it's pretty clear that you are a simply extremely homeric argy.
You'd suck the of any nobody as long as he's an argy.
If Bosh does a sign and trade which most people believe, they don't have pieces to trade. They simply don't have people under contract. Some of those other Boston pieces were draft picks from years prior, hence cheap. If they don't have pieces to trade and don't have old draft picks that are maturing, then they are only left to free agency.
Crucify em, bad. Send that Nazi sympathizing ass to the tree of woe.
Not counting all star appearances:
1,200 reg season + playoffs and counting for Kobe
1,250 reg season + playoffs for Jordan.
Kobe's a fitness freak so I can see him playing well into mid-late 30's, then probably hang it up at around 36 or 37 if he's really that fit and lucky to match Kareem's longevity.
I think Chalmers can do what Rondo did in 2008, but also the big difference is Wade + Lebron + Bosh all in their primes won't need as much help as Allen Pierce and KG all in their 30's and past their primes. Maybe I'm not realizing how weak their supporting cast might be, but all that team would need is one off season with an MLE and LLE to solve that problem.
Don't really disagree. Still means they'd have to wait for one more off season (next summer) to get better adequate talent and depth to be a truly legitimate le contender. Year one, they'd still be a great team, but I don't think have enough to win it all.
Kobe started shooting almost 50% for almost half a season then as the season progressed he declined to his regular 45%, which means he shot lower than that in the second half of the season.
And I brought the 10-30 type of games and his 21.5 shots per game 'cause you said that the reason Kobe wasn't getting his 40 pts games was the fact that he tried to play more team ball, I'm just proving to you that he's still taking more or less the same amount of shots he has taken his whole career.
Miller averaged 16 at age 35, and no matter what your career averages are it's a lot easier to be a 19 ppg guy at age 36 than a 26 ppg guy at age 36.It's cool to jump to Reggie Miller at age 36 and bypass the fact that when Reggie was 35 years old, he averaged 19 ppg and played 39.3 minutes per game. And it wasn't like Reggie was ever a 30 ppg type player. Most of his career, even in his prime, he was a 19-21 ppg scorer. So being right there at the low end of his prime scoring pace, Reggie showed that conditioning into his mad 30s was fine. Kobe in his prime was around a 30 ppg scorer. In 3 years, Kobe will be 35. Him scoring around 25 ppg and playing around 35 mpg is not only reasonable, it's foreseeable with again what I say about his conditioning and work ethic.
It's easy to discredit Karl Malone's numbers when he was old because it doesn't suit your argument...
And you know that what I'm saying about Malone is right, but let's pretend he was indeed elite at that age, it doesn't change the fact that out of thousands and thousands of players you can only came up with two or three examples of players playing at elite level in their mid 30s.
Last edited by DAF86; 07-07-2010 at 12:23 PM.
-Like DOK said, this was the EXACT same thing that people said about Boston..the EXACT same ..Riley knows what he's doing, he will get players..they need a shooting PG and a defensive C, it's very do-able..
Lebron/Wade is an amazing combination on both ends of the floor..the fact that they have each other to take away some of the offensive responsibility from the other will allow them to play harder defensively, and they've both shown the ability to play very good D..
You would just need a shooter at PG, and somebody to allow Bosh to defend PFs instead of Cs..a guy like Haywood would be perfect..
-Kobe is clearly on the decline..he faced 2 good defenses in the playoffs, and he sucked(relative) against both, while dominating the 2 mediocre defenses he went up against..
-I don't think I expect Lebron to join MIA..
Last edited by HarlemHeat37; 07-07-2010 at 12:21 PM.
I'm not disagreeing with Kobe having good years left, but c'mon, you'd have to be blind not to see his decline. He's done things like improve his post game and make his jumper even more deadly to compensate but there's obviously a huge athleticism decline from 2006 Kobe who dunked on Steve Nash to current Kobe.
Depends. If Jermaine Oneal decides to completely put money aside and sign with MIA for the vet min as well as 2 other quality vets, they might have enough to win. I think them taking a year has as much to do with them needing time to adjust to each other than it does them not having a supporting cast.
No, Miller averaged 19 at age 35. He averaged 16 at age 36. Please keep the ages correct. If you're a player that has always scored around 19-20 ppg, then scoring 19 at age 35 is quite good. If you're a player that has scored around 30 ppg in your prime, averaging 25 ppg at age 35 seems extremely reasonable.
I'll re-post what I added to my previous post:And you know that what I'm saying about Malone is right, but let's pretend he was indeed elite at that age, it doesn't change the fact that out of thousands and thousands of players you can only came up with two or three examples of players playing at elite level in their mid 30s.
1999-2000 Karl Malone, age 36, 15th season in the league, 25.5 ppg, 35.9 mpg, 2nd team all NBA, finished 4th in MVP voting, Utah still won 55 games.
I'm using examples of two players that you can compare Kobe to as it pertains to keeping his body in shape and conditioning with the work ethic and disicpline that Kobe has shown throughout his career. Reggie and Karl are better comparisons precisely because of that. If Kobe wasn't such a work out warrior who trained and conditioned pretty much all year round, I wouldn't be arguing what I'm arguing. That is why I'm comparing him to guys like Reggie and Karl and not to thousands of other players who don't have the same type of workout discipline.
Actually Jermaine O'Neal would be stupid for Miami, the Jermaine Oneal Bosh front court was massive fail for Toronto.
I won't disagree that Kobe has lost some of his athleticism. But to me, the fact that he's added to his game like you just said with his post game and being even more consistent with his jumpshooting is precisely to make up for that slight regression in athleticism. That's why he can maintain his high level of play. Just like Jordan did late in his career, not relying on his athleticism either. But I do challenge that Kobe is on a sure and steady decline in "overall level of play." You just basically stated why he can keep up that level. His decline is greatly exaggerated. And even with his poor shooting performances, his overall post-season play pretty much proved that.
Is he the same player athletically he was 5 years ago? No. But his level of play hasn't really dropped off the way some people suggest.
Joel Anthony will also be one of Miami's Center's next year.
He's a good defensive player, blocks shots, and can rebound. and he's cheap.
No, that's just what you think 'cause the Mav krew transformed my original comment about Manu/Dirk into Manu > Dirk and then I just played along.
Kobe cant run as fast or jump as high anymore but his obsession with adding new moves to his game will keep him good for a while. Every year I see some new post moves & footwork. He doesnt need to do what Lebron & Wade do. They continuously drive to the basket looking to get hammered which will hurt them in the long run. Im really starting to wonder if Lebron will ever have a legit post game cuz he looks damn awkward when he tries to do anything in the post haha.
Actually, your original statement was "in their primes, manu>dirk".
Which is just as re ed as saying manu>dirk.
Let me guess, messi having a "good WC" is also something that you never said?
Yeah but I'm guessing he won't provide the presence Perkins does, and with Bosh at PF your center better be able to anchor the defense.
Also
The Chicago Bulls are not the only team to have retired Michael Jordan's number.
Guess who the other team is?
I think LeBron will like that sort of thing. It fits in with changing his number to #6. It's a pipe dream, but there's still an outside shot.
I actually like Anthony's game, but he's definitely not starter-material, unless he makes massive strides..I like him as a bench guy though, he's good depth to have inside..
Only a team as pathetic as the heat would retire the number of a player that never played for it, tbh.Also
The Chicago Bulls are not the only team to have retired Michael Jordan's number.
Guess who the other team is?
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