My bad, I thought you were referring to any players measurements, not just bonners or blair's. Look I think we can all agree at this point what each player brings to the team. Kind of stupid comparing the two, when Blair only plays inside and Bonner only plays outside.
I think the point is not to necessarily compare their skill sets. Blair has a lot more talent than Bonner. His rebounding, energy and ability to pass and finish inside despite his size are much better than what Bonner has to offer all around.
Blair has the potential to be an excellent player and a true impact player. Bonner does not.
No doubt that Blair has more upside, but this conversation should be about who has played the best with TD. Lets face it, all rotations at the 4 or 5 start with TD, and the main reason Bonner is on the team is spread the floor for TD. Blair and TD simply clog the middle down low and thus very little minutes for blair. Even when Bonner plays with Blair, Bonner is helping by drawing out another big for Blairs cuts to the basket. Bonner does things for this team which helps other players with there game
Why do people STILL defend Bonner? As a Laker fan I love the fact that Bonner will take minutes away from Blair
It's going to be tough enough to beat them in a series, but doing so without an extremely productive per minute player and in his stead going with a player who's one dimensional and has proven that the playoffs are too big a stage for him, would only make the task that much more difficult.
If Bonner were a significantly better fit in this matchup, then I'd say go with fit over talent. But he's just as ill-suited to playing against the Lakers as Blair is and he's not nearly as talented, so it's a no brainer to go with Blair.
Even if Blair struggles to finish inside against their length and has trouble defensively, he has a much better chance of helping with rebounding, which is huge against the Lakers. He's also a guy who provides energy, unlike Bonner.
Pop needs to use the regular season games to experiment and attempt to find a suitable matchup for Blair against the Lakers. It might take some getting creative and being unconventional, such as: When Odom is in at PF, the Spurs could cross match defensively and put Jefferson on Odom and Blair on Artest.
Realistically, even if Blair starts in the regular season, it's probably unlikely he'll maintain that position in a playoff series against the Lakers (should it occur). McDyess will likely be starting, Splitter will likely be the first big off the bench and one of Blair or Bonner will be the fourth big. Even if it's not the Lakers, I think there's a good chance that eventually this becomes the rotation once the playoff rotation is set. So we're probably not talking about that significant a role.
For the same reason they defend RJ....
They have brain damage.
Well all that really matters for a team like the Spurs is the playoffs. Bonner does not spread the floor in the playoffs. Teams purposely sag off of him and let him shoot. He misses all the time.
So while the spacing thing in theory is good, it does not work with Bonner in the playoffs and the team ends up playing 4 on 5. I would rather have what Blair does in there, because what he does works most of the time. So the Spurs are getting some really strong areas (given, they are weak in others with a Blair/Tim pairing).
Point is, the Spurs are weak every where with Bonner and he needs 0 minutes in the playoffs. It should be Dice/Tim or hopefully Tiago/Tim and Blair with the other guy. Sometimes spacing can't be the most important thing, especially if you are able to amp up the rebounding and defense by pairing someone else w/ Tim besides Bonner.
Just like the Rasho/Oberto/Nazr pairings.
Blair put up double figure rebounds and points against Boston last season... A team with a big rotation of Garnett/Perkins/Wallace... Not the Lakers, but tough and tall big men too...
Game 1 - Boston 90 vs Spurs 83
Blair: 21min, 18 points, 11 rebounds
Bonner: 21min, 2 points, 9 rebounds
Game 2 - Spurs 94 vs Boston 73
Blair: 21min, 7 points, 11 rebounds
Bonner: 24min, 5 points, 3 rebounds
BTW... plus/minus for that Game 2 against Boston was Bonner +19 and Blair +10... Duncan scored a measly 8 points in that game... We won thanks to Manu and his 28 and RJ/Hill with 16/15 points respectively...
I guess if you're into winning the regular season plus/minus LOB, Matt is your guy
Bonner sucks. I was so relieved when his contract was up, only to be in disbelief to see him signed for four more ing years. This guy is such a choker. I like Blair and he plays larger than his size, but he's no big. Neither of them is. I am concerned how undersized the spurs are compared to the lakers, heat, celtics, even the rockets and mavs. ing small ball. Thanks Pop you . Old Tim, old Dice, room Splitter. That's our bigs. That's it. .
I agree with you there. If they were used the way logic says they're supposed to be used, then we wouldn't be comparing them at all. If Bonner were used as a three point shooting role player when the matchups favor it, he'd never get minutes from Blair, who should be the first or second big off the bench on any given night. Unfortunately, history tells us the reality suggests Bonner being force fed minutes, and it's likely Blair's the one whose minutes he's going to get.
I don't what wrong with Popovich. Ever since the 06 loss to the Mavs, it's like he wants to turn the Spurs into some finesse team like the Suns.
I don't care how many young, athletic teams run past them in the regular season. In the playoffs, everything slows down. Look at Boston - they are even older and slower than the Spurs, but they had a great playoff run. KG, Perkins, Big Baby, J. O'Neal and Shaq - size, length, toughness. Who cares that none of them can hit a 3 pointer to save their lives. Only Ray Allen and maybe Pierce can hit 3 pointers.
I don't know if the re-signing of Bonner and RJ are just token gestures to show that they're making an effort to compete because I just can't see how this helps them get closer to a championship. And 4 years contracts
blair has so much more hustle than boner. boner just shoots little floaters through the lane that he cant make and he cant play d. blair is a beast.
I don't fault Bonner's hustle and effort. He gives his all and is actually a decent defender in certain situations. He is useful when his shot is on. He is just not that good and other guys just seem so confident against him that they score even when he plays good defense. But I don't knock his hustle.
If he was 6-10 he would had been a top three draft pick. We would crush the lakers with a 6-10 blair. Unfortunately we only have a 6-6 blair.
DPG21920 is the only one with a positive comment about Bonner's effort. Other than that I keep read about Blair's energy and effort on the court, as if Bonner's doesn't bring those same things to the table.
On offense Blair is going to struggle to score against the Lakers bigs. While doing this he is going to clog the paint, making it more difficult for Timmy to post-up and for manu to drive into the paint. Manu is already going to be guarded by a good defender in Kobe or Artest so he doesn't need any extra bodies clogging the paint. If the line-up had Tim/Blair/RJ the Lakers biggest players can just set up camp in the paint. No room for Parker and Manu to do what they do best.
On offense Bonner is going to spread the court against the Lakers. This will allow more room for all the other players on the spurs to maximize what they do best. No one on here has faith in Bonner's shot but his potential will at least create more room for the others to operate. His three ball is a esential part of the spurs now that we have rj. I have read many comments about other successful teams not having a big that can shoot the three but we need it because we almost always have to non-shooters in Rj and Parker on the court. Bonner has also improved his offensive skill implementing the running hook shot last year. Hopefully his confidence with new contract and hardwork will translate to a more effective Bonner on the court.
On defense Blair willl strugle against the Laker bigs because he is significantly shorter than them. Or in the case of Odom he is shorter and slower. Pau and Bynum can easily shoot over Blair. Many players in the league can do this but these guys actually have good touch around the basket. He can try to front the Lakers big but that is not going to work often enough. I don't think Blair can guard any of the Laker bigs.
Bonner will also struggle on defense against the Lakers but he will be more effective than Blair. He can potentially guard Odom or Artest on the court as well which is a bonus because Odom plays a lot of pf minutes. Although Bonner and Blair have the same standing reach I think that Bonner still has a advantage in guarding Pau. When Pau turn around to put up a shot on Blair he is looking over his head but against Bonner he is looking at his forehead. Significant difference in my opinion.
Blair will out rebound Bonner. Even this is going to be very difficult for Blair.
I think Bonner is clearly the better fit against the Lakers when you look at the players the Spurs have vs. the players the Lakers have. I am not a Bonner lover either. I do not really even like him but as I said I like him more than Blair against the Lakers.
Why do you think Laker fans are happy to see Bonner play instead of Blair? Why do you think Rasheed said, "Throw the ball to whoever Bonner is guarding?" Why do you think Barkley refers to Bonner as the "limo guy"? He's the type of player that Mark Cuban will send his limo for to make sure that he gets to the game. That's how opponents view him - they want him on the floor.
Blair (rookie), in half Bonner's time, had more rebounds, assists, steals, blocks and 1.3 points less than Bonner (6 year pro). Bonner's not going to get any better unlike Blair who still has to learn how to be an effective NBA player and the Spurs system. If Blair had been given the minutes Bonner got in addition to the ones he got, he'd have 3 times the playoff experience he has now. Why not give him a chance and see what he's got? We already know that Bonner chokes in the playoffs - we've had him for 4 years. Why keep doing the same thing and expect different results?
My first question is this, OP: Why did you start a thread asking for opinions if you've already made your mind up and are not going to heed the counsel of others?
Second question: Why are all of your theories based on conjecture?
Blair hasn't struggled to score against anyone because he lives in the paint, grabs offensive rebounds and puts them back up quickly. He's effective against short players, tall players, skinny players, all players. Again, like Manu. Would you ever say to take Manu out of the game? No, even if there's a mismatch, you want what he brings to the table; the creativity, the instincts, the desire, the aggression.
In Bonner's case, you talk about him "stretching the floor" but, like many have already stated, it's untrue. The reason that Bonner is so wide open in the regular season is because his defender sags waaaay off of him. How good is he at stretching the floor if his defender doesn't even follow? I also believe that Bonner has become a much better player over these last two years and that he could be even better this year. However, your argument that he has all the things that Blair has is absolutely false. When you see Blair do something incredible, which is not that unusual, you see the team get hyped up, jumping off of their chairs and hollerin'. When Bonner does something outstanding, which is rare, his teammates clap and say 'good job'. Blair's mojo is infectious, while Bonner just doesn't have it.
Either way, they will both play against the Lakers.
Fun read guys.
Bonner's the only Spur that defended Ron Artest well --- strong SF's like Artest were and still are a huge match up problem for the Spurs. Watch the LA games earlier in the season and you saw Ron Artest abuse the Spurs on the glass and getting easy points near the rim, when Pop put Bonner on him his size neutered Artest's advantages and Ron doesn't have the speed to make the Spurs pay for putting the red rocket on him. Other than that, Bonner's got a 3 point shot and knows the system. I hated him and the Spurs FO during his time as a starter but coming off the bench its not as bad, FWIW he also made improvements last year and has that running hook shot no one expects - up until he broke his hand he was having a pretty good season but his shooting touch came back for the Suns series where he shot over 45% (37% overall in the playoffs) and for the reg season shot 39% from downtown.
Blair should improve next season as long as he develops a jumpshot and works on his post defense, especially at denying the ball. However both Blair and Bonner seem like they should continue to struggle against LA's 4/5's since they're both undersized and aren't exactly elite defenders. Hopefully Blair can do what Big Baby did to the Lakers in Game 4 of the Finals in the next season, only realistic way I can see the undersized and less talented Blair and Bonner match up against Gasol is through crazy hustle.
Last edited by Cane; 08-20-2010 at 08:07 AM.
NO NO NO bonner and Bird should not ever be used together to judge against nothing, Bird smell’s better than bonner out the shower.
Nathan, the problem with what you posted is that it is theory, not real (at least in the po's). Bonner does not shoot well in the playoffs and he is not spreading the floor. People sag off of him and the spacing issues become the same.
So if that is the case, then you need things you can count on like rebounding and such.
I started this thread to get the opinions of all forum members. To see if you guys agreed or disagreed with me. I thought the majority of you guys would disagree, so I wanted to try an convince you to believe what I believe. At the same time I am always open minded and all of you have the opportunity to convince me.
I am pretty sure this is not true.
Manu is the best option so this is different. He is one of the best sg in the game if there is a mismatch then we are fuc*ed.
He shot 39% from three last year and 44% the year before. If the opposing team doesn't respect his shot he will get a wide open look.
I don't believe I ever made this argument.
Of course they will both play but bonner will play more.
Not theory, but potential. Bonner has not played well in the playoff and that is the argument that could be made against Bonner. All he has to do is bring his reg. season play to the playoffs. Now that he has a new contract his mind should be a ease. Even when people sag off of bonner the spacing is not the same and they still always have to keep a eye on him. Blair's man will be in the paint all of the time not bonners.
Message not to you:
Blair's jumpshot will not be much better this year. I hope I am wrong about this but he doesn't look like a guy who going to be shooting the ball.
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