tim duncan ranked #2 by yahoo sports in nba PFs

[BadMotorscooter]

In L.A., Gasol gets to work with all defensive players like Kobe and Artest...and bigs like Odom and Bynum. If he played here in S.A. he would have to rely on Bonner and Jefferson. lol. Gasol would get eaten alive like he did in Memphis.

[DeadlyDynasty]

Just making friendly debate. Duncan is old. So is Kobe. You want to come on a Spurs board and get Spurs fans riled up about Gasol being better. I'm cool with that....doesnt bother me. But lets talk about the icon in L.A. too...Wade is better now. But I dont need to go to an L.A. forum to say so.

The article said that, I was just reinforcing it...and a Spurs fan started this thread, so you can quit the condescending tone anytime. This thread has nothing to do with Wade and Kobe, but i'll placate you if it makes you happy:
I have no problem with somebody preferring Wade over Kobe. Wade is a proven winner and has always been a class act (unlike some of his bag teammates). If you had to start a team today, I would take Wade over Kobe. If I were GM and had one year to win, I'd take Kobe right now. He's still the best killer in the game. Btw, Kobe avg'd more pts and rebs than Wade this year, so I don't see how he is clearly better than Kobe. Two straight Finals MVPs don't hurt his case either. But like I said, Wade is a stud and if people thinks he's better than I have no problem with it, just personal preference at this point.

[DeadlyDynasty]

In L.A., Gasol gets to work with all defensive players like Kobe and Artest...and bigs like Odom and Bynum. If he played here in S.A. he would have to rely on Bonner and Jefferson. lol. Gasol would get eaten alive like he did in Memphis.

dude have you not watched Tim the past couple years? homeboy is too slow to cover the paint for you guys now. At least Gasol can still rotate over

[BadMotorscooter]

The article said that, I was just reinforcing it...and a Spurs fan started this thread, so you can quit the condescending tone anytime. This thread has nothing to do with Wade and Kobe, but i'll placate you if it makes you happy:
I have no problem with somebody preferring Wade over Kobe. Wade is a proven winner and has always been a class act (unlike some of his bag teammates). If you had to start a team today, I would take Wade over Kobe. If I were GM and had one year to win, I'd take Kobe right now. He's still the best killer in the game. Btw, Kobe avg'd more pts and rebs than Wade this year, so I don't see how he is clearly better than Kobe. Two straight Finals MVPs don't hurt his case either. But like I said, Wade is a stud and if people thinks he's better than I have no problem with it, just personal preference at this point.

Once again...just making friendly dabate. I dont care who started the thread....you felt the need to come in as a Laker fan and make your claim that Gasol is better. Once again, I'm cool with that....but lets debate the icon in L.A. as well. If fans of other teams want to debate superstars on other forums, than its only fair we debate theirs as well, right?

[BadMotorscooter]

dude have you not watched Tim the past couple years? homeboy is too slow to cover the paint for you guys now. At least Gasol can still rotate over

Speed does not equate defense. Just ask the Phoenix Suns. Amare can rotate better than Duncan in the paint too. lol Sorry, try again.

[TD 21]

Stop being a homer...Gasol is more durable than Duncan now too. He's added some toughness and d since getting embarrassed by the C's in '08. There is no weakness to his game. Duncan is the best PF to ever play, and in his prime he was untouchable, but that time is clearly over. He's still good, but he aint Gasol right now.

If you look in depth at their numbers, you'll find out they're a lot closer than many claim. I'm not talking about the obvious, like ppg, rpg, bpg, etc., although they're close in those categories, too.

Like I said, I wouldn't argue with anyone saying Gasol was better and said I'd give Bryant the slight edge over Wade despite evidence to the contrary, so cut the cliche "you're a homer" nonsense. This isn't a case where it's inarguable. We're not talking about James here.

Gasol hasn't "added some toughness", you're obviously a novice fan who has to have the three Lakers fans who call the vast majority of the Lakers nationally televised games tell you what to believe.

[DeadlyDynasty]

Speed does not equate defense. Just ask the Phoenix Suns. Amare can rotate better than Duncan in the paint too. lol Sorry, try again.

well then what do you want...stats? Pau outrebounded and outblocked Duncan this past year...actually he bested him in every stat. sorry, try again

[DeadlyDynasty]

Once again...just making friendly dabate. I dont care who started the thread....you felt the need to come in as a Laker fan and make your claim that Gasol is better. Once again, I'm cool with that....but lets debate the icon in L.A. as well. If fans of other teams want to debate superstars on other forums, than its only fair we debate theirs as well, right?

You just heard my view on Kobe-Wade, you think Wade is better..I have no problem with that, b/c there's actually some veracity to that claim (both ways actually). But to consider Duncan better than Pau (which I know YOU didn't) is asinine at this point.

[BadMotorscooter]

well then what do you want...stats? Pau outrebounded and outblocked Duncan this past year...actually he bested him in every stat. sorry, try again

In his prime, son. Do you not remember past posts? I already said Gasol was better than Duncan, but only because Duncan is getting old with alot of miles on the tire. Just like Kobe has. If you want to compare them in their prime...there is none. Gasol would be a joke. But right now, Gasol is better.

[DeadlyDynasty]

If you look in depth at their numbers, you'll find out they're a lot closer than many claim. I'm not talking about the obvious, like ppg, rpg, bpg, etc., although they're close in those categories, too.

Like I said, I wouldn't argue with anyone saying Gasol was better and said I'd give Bryant the slight edge over Wade despite evidence to the contrary, so cut the cliche "you're a homer" nonsense. This isn't a case where it's inarguable. We're not talking about James here.

Gasol hasn't "added some toughness", you're obviously a novice fan who has to have the three Lakers fans who call the vast majority of the Lakers nationally televised games tell you what to believe.

you know what you're right....Gasol was a downright pussy going against Howard and the Celtics bigs in back-to-back finals...he was ing soft as charmin. Thank you for showing me the error of my ways

[DeadlyDynasty]

In his prime, son. Do you not remember past posts? I already said Gasol was better than Duncan, but only because Duncan is getting old with alot of miles on the tire. Just like Kobe has. If you want to compare them in their prime...there is none. Gasol would be a joke. But right now, Gasol is better.

No arguments here...in his prime Duncan was untouchable

[Obstructed_View]

well then what do you want...stats? Pau outrebounded and outblocked Duncan this past year...actually he bested him in every stat. sorry, try again

Actually, I do want stats, but you have to know what the you're seeing. Gasol had bigger numbers due to playing more minutes per game. When you look at the actual production, the only stats where Gasol "bested" Duncan were field goal percentage, free throws and offensive rebounds. Plus old broken-down Duncan still played 12 more games than Pau did. Checkmate.

[J_Paco]

well then what do you want...stats? Pau outrebounded and outblocked Duncan this past year...actually he bested him in every stat. sorry, try again

Pau averaged more statistically because he logged 6 more minutes on a per game basis. So, obviously he'd put up more per game. Duncan put up more in total points, rebounds, assists and blocks.

Yet, Duncan put up 18/10/3/1.5 on 31 minutes per game and had the 5th best PER (24.7) in the NBA. Gasol gave L.A. 18/11/3/1.7 on 36 minutes per game and had a PER of 22.1.

Gasol isn't more durable than Duncan. Gasol actually played less games than Duncan last season. Gasol does have advantage of being able to play more minutes because of his younger age.

All of this is moot anyway because doesn't even play the power forward position anymore.

(Great minds think alike, Obstructed.)

[DeadlyDynasty]

Actually, I do want stats, but you have to know what the you're seeing. Gasol had bigger numbers due to playing more minutes per game. When you look at the actual production, the only stats where Gasol "bested" Duncan were field goal percentage, free throws and offensive rebounds. Plus old broken-down Duncan still played 12 more games than Pau did. Checkmate.

and why did Pau play more minutes? BECAUSE HE CAN...HE'S YOUNG AND DURABLE ENOUGH TO BE THERE FOR HIS TEAM 40+ MINUTES, WHILE DUNCAN NO LONGER CAN. Thanks for making my point, hard to be more valuable when you're not on the floor. Duncan used to be able to do that, but old age and injuries have slowed him down. Check yourself first homes

[J_Paco]

and why did Pau play more minutes? BECAUSE HE CAN...HE'S YOUNG AND DURABLE ENOUGH TO BE THERE FOR HIS TEAM 40+ MINUTES, WHILE DUNCAN NO LONGER CAN. Thanks for making my point, hard to be more valuable when you're not on the floor. Duncan used to be able to do that, but old age and injuries have slowed him down. Check yourself first homes

Gasol has never average 40+ minutes per game throughout a NBA season. His career high is 39.2 in '05-'06 with Memphis, while Duncan has bested that three times. Everyone realizes that Gasol is the younger and fresher legged player, but that doesn't automatically make him the better player. Especially, when Duncan can play less minutes and still equal his impact.

I like Gasol and believe he's the best power forward in the game, especially since Duncan is a center, but he's becoming overrated because he happens to play in L.A. He's virtually the same guy that he was in Memphis, but with more desire and tougher skin.

[DeadlyDynasty]

Gasol has never average 40+ minutes per game throughout a NBA season. His career high is 39.2 in '05-'06 with Memphis, while Duncan has bested that three times. Everyone realizes that Gasol is the younger and fresher legged player, but that doesn't automatically make him the better player. Especially, when Duncan can play less minutes and still equal his impact.

No, the fact that he's a decent defender and the best offensive big man in the game make him a better player...then add youth on to that and it's a no-brainer at this point. We're not Comparing 2003 Duncan people, this is 2010 Tim Duncan. Still good, but not as good as Gasol.

[J_Paco]

No, the fact that he's a decent defender and the best offensive big man in the game make him a better player...then add youth on to that and it's a no-brainer at this point. We're not Comparing 2003 Duncan people, this is 2010 Tim Duncan. Still good, but not as good as Gasol.

Please, Gasol isn't the best offensive big man since he can't even average 20 points per game in a season. He has the best arsenal of moves, even though that is debatable too, but isn't the best scorer. That le belongs to either Stoudemire or Bosh.

See, this is exactly what I'm talking about. People believing the hype that ESPN and TNT have created around Gasol. Gasol is very good and Tim Duncan still is too.

[DeadlyDynasty]

Please, Gasol isn't the best offensive big man since he can't even average 20 points per game in a season. He has the best arsenal of moves, even though that is debatable too, but isn't the best scorer. That le belongs to either Stoudemire or Bosh.

See, this is exactly what I'm talking about. People believing the hype that ESPN and TNT have created around Gasol. Gasol is very good and Tim Duncan still is too.

and no, I don't believe in ESPN...I believe in the endgame, and that's been all roses the last 2 years thanks in large part to him

[J_Paco]

and no, I don't believe in ESPN...I believe in the endgame, and that's been all roses the last 2 years thanks in large part to him

Yeah, plus the cast of players that surround him. Gasol deserves plenty of credit and played tremendous ball during the Finals. Let's not pretend that he's better than he really is.

His tremendous arsenal has never enabled him to score more than 20 a night. Guys with lesser offensive repertoires have put up 20 or more easily. So, that means that he isn't the best offensively until he can reach that goal. It probably ain't happening on the Lakers, though.

[Obstructed_View]

and why did Pau play more minutes? BECAUSE HE CAN...HE'S YOUNG AND DURABLE ENOUGH TO BE THERE FOR HIS TEAM 40+ MINUTES, WHILE DUNCAN NO LONGER CAN. Thanks for making my point, hard to be more valuable when you're not on the floor. Duncan used to be able to do that, but old age and injuries have slowed him down. Check yourself first homes

lulz. See where Gasol played in 12 fewer games this season. Duncan's floor time is limited by his coach, not by his frail body. Meanwhile Gasol's the one missing large numbers of games over his career, not Duncan. When Gasol has this big advantage in minutes per game yet still plays fewer total minutes over the course of the season than Duncan, something that happened this season, your argument about Duncan not being able to do it suddenly stops making sense.

To quote you: Hard to be more valuable when you're not on the floor.

[DeadlyDynasty]

Yeah, plus the cast of players that surround him. Gasol deserves plenty of credit and played tremendous ball during the Finals. Let's not pretend that he's better than he really is.

His tremendous arsenal has never enabled him to score more than 20 a night. Guys with lesser offensive repertoires have put up 20 or more easily. So, that means that he isn't the best offensively until he can reach that goat. It probably ain't happening on the Lakers, though.

Whatever you say boss...if you had your pick of PF's to take who would it be?

I'll take Pau, dude has it all and he's proven it.

[DeadlyDynasty]

lulz. See where Gasol played in 12 fewer games this season. Duncan's floor time is limited by his coach, not by his frail body. Meanwhile Gasol's the one missing large numbers of games over his career, not Duncan. When Gasol has this big advantage in minutes per game yet still plays fewer total minutes over the course of the season than Duncan, something that happened this season, your argument about Duncan not being able to do it suddenly stops making sense.

To quote you: Hard to be more valuable when you're not on the floor.

I love you guys, if you saw this argument from a fresh perspective you'd understand. I get it, you love Duncan, he's brought you all you're hardware so you go to all lengths to defend him. It's time to let go. He will go down as the best PF to ever play and a 4-time champion, which should be more than you ever could of dreamed of 12 years ago. But let it go, he's no longer the best right now. You guys are like conflicted adults who can't decide whether to keep your parents around or put them in a home. Duncan's been great for you all, he raised you well...but it's time to start looking at those pamphlets from Shady Acres a little more seriously now...

$0.02

[TD 21]

I love you guys, if you saw this argument from a fresh perspective you'd understand. I get it, you love Duncan, he's brought you all you're hardware so you go to all lengths to defend him. It's time to let go. He will go down as the best PF to ever play and a 4-time champion, which should be more than you ever could of dreamed of 12 years ago. But let it go, he's no longer the best right now. You guys are like conflicted adults who can't decide whether to keep your parents around or put them in a home. Duncan's been great for you all, he raised you well...but it's time to start looking at those pamphlets from Shady Acres a little more seriously now...

$0.02

No, you don't get it. This has nothing to do with nostalgia or anything of that sort, this is all about right now and right now these two players are very comparable. You're making Gasol out to be James.

Every time a Spurs fan doesn't call Duncan essentially an old, washed up bum, they instantly get labeled as being biased or nostalgic, etc. It's ridiculous.

http://www.48minutesof .com/2010/...can/#more-9428

Focus on the numbers.

[J_Paco]

Whatever you say boss...if you had your pick of PF's to take who would it be?

I'll take Pau, dude has it all and he's proven it.

I don't know, because they're all flawed even Gasol. He has the advantage of being a proven winner over Dirk, Amar'e, Carlos and Chris. Yet, even he failed as the main piece during his run in Memphis.

It would really come down to what type of team I had surrounding that power forward. None of those guys have proven to be true championship-caliber #1 options, IMO.

If someone held a pistol to my head and told me to make a choice, then I'd go with Gasol.

[Nathan89]

My mind was scrambled by this question. Who is better Duncan or Gasol? At first part me said that Gasol was better and the other part of me said that the spurs would not be better with Gasol. Both parts seem to conflict but the truth is Duncan is better than Gasol for the spurs. While all of the stats are very similar for the two players, I think Duncan is still the better defender,leader and clutch player. The difference is the lakers have better perimeter defenders so Gasol isn't as exposed. The Spurs also need Duncan for leadership and clutch plays at the end of the game. The Lakers do not need Gasol for leadership or clutchness because they have Kobe. So I think it is undeniable that Duncan is the best pf for the spurs. The question is Gasol better than Duncan for the Lakers. So defense,leadership and cluthness seperates the two power-forwards.