Are the Spurs still contenders?

[fantasyfootball]

So when does being a top 6-7 team in the league mean they are not in contention? If you ask me, that is pretty good.

The list that I compiled was what they needed to do to win to the finals. They can contend without the list. To be a huge threat to the rest of the league most of those things will need to happen.

A top 6 team is just that, a top 6 team but they're light years away from the Lakers or Heat. Your definiton may be different, but when I think of contender, I think of a team that legitimately has a shot at a championship.

Under that definition, the only teams that seriously have a shot are either Lakers, Celtics, or Heat.

The Lakers, Celtics, and Heat don't need a million dominoes to fall in the right place to win. They just have to be better than the other.

I think the Spurs will have a fine regular season (54 games) and make it to the conference finals, but they aren't talented/athletic/tall enough to match the Lakers and Heat.

, last year Orlando threw the Spurs to the curb. It was a regular season game, but they dominated them. I don't even think the Spurs could get by Orlando.

Spurs would fare best against the C's because of matchups, but I'd still give a definitive edge to Boston.

Here's what I like about the Spurs:

- Tony Parker will be as good as he's been in 2 years.
- Splitter is going to grab rebounds and affect shots in the paint. He also gives an option on offense.
- Richard Jefferson has a year of experience in the system

Here's what takes them out of contention:

- Duncan is on his last legs. He can't play back-to-backs and he has to have his minutes severely limited. Even then, he's not always effective.
- Spurs still count on Matt Bonner for heavy production. This is pretty embarrassing. You don't see Boston milking Scalabrine.
- Richard Jefferson isn't going to all of a sudden flip the switch. He'll probably have less mental mistakes and flow better in the offense, but he's still Richard Jefferson, a soft, weak NBA player who has no confidence unless he gets a dunk.
- Spurs don't have consistent, knockdown offensive shooters to spread the floor.
- Lack of athleticism/height. Same problems for the Spurs. They always fight an uphill battle against the Lakers because of this.
- Still missing a perimeter defender to guard superstar 2/3s.
- Pop will go against common sense and is stubborn as a mule. He almost never makes a change in his philosophy/thinking until it's too late.

The Spurs were looking pretty good when they got swept off their feet by the Suns. Then, the Suns got handled by the Lakers. That goes a long way in telling you where the Spurs are at.

I think the Magic would handle the Spurs pretty easily. I think the Heat would make the Spurs look like the Angola women's team. Lebron and Dwayne Wade would eat the Spurs alive.

[2Cleva]

I'm glad some sense is coming back in this thread. No disrespect to SA but they aren't in LA or Miami's league.

[chazley]

Our team is better than the Celtics when we are healthy. Celtics were a Kendrick Perkins knee injury away from winning it all.

Yes, we are contenders. Honestly, I think theirs a large section of Spurs fans that kind of want to believe we are done. Those people are in the same category as all the other haters who believed we would never do , and all we did was win 4 championships.

Do not count us out if we are healthy in May. In March we showed the league it would be stupid to say we are done. Hill/Parker injuries (who would've thought they'd be the ones injured?) derailed us.

[fantasyfootball]

Our team is better than the Celtics when we are healthy. Celtics were a Kendrick Perkins knee injury away from winning it all.

Yes, we are contenders. Honestly, I think theirs a large section of Spurs fans that kind of want to believe we are done. Those people are in the same category as all the other haters who believed we would never do , and all we did was win 4 championships.

Do not count us out if we are healthy in May. In March we showed the league it would be stupid to say we are done. Hill/Parker injuries (who would've thought they'd be the ones injured?) derailed us.

When did Spurs > Celtics become a matter of fact? Even if they were and the C's somehow beat D-Wade and Co., Spurs would never get past Lakers so that's a moot point.

I believe Spurs fans have their hands over their eyes and won't look at the writing on the wall. The Spurs have been done for a long time.

Every year is another what if, woulda coulda year. How many of those do you need before you realize it's over?

The Spurs are down 1 legend. That's game over as far as championships are concerned.

As it stands, Spurs are have settled into a very good team that the contenders know they can beat whenever they want. Home town fans might get excited over a regular season win or a close loss against the real contenders but the rest of the league knows it's coming down to Lakers or Heat (maayybe C's).

[2Cleva]

fantasyfootball speaks the truth.

If SA gets a Top-10, 15 player - then they can truly enter the convo.

[Rummpd]

Yes because I think they can at least get to the finals under three scenarios:

1. No health issues big three.
2. They make a midseason move to bring in one more vet
3. LAL has some bad luck and/or injuries - they are still by far the class of the West, but the gap is not insurmountable if either the Spurs improve with their additions signficantly and/or LAL has some playoff struggles.

[George Gervin's Afro]

With a couple of breaks we are contenders...

[Horse]

There's alot to be determined with just how good we'll be. But anyone not on board I say YOU!

[Killakobe81]

A top 6 team is just that, a top 6 team but they're light years away from the Lakers or Heat. Your definiton may be different, but when I think of contender, I think of a team that legitimately has a shot at a championship.

Under that definition, the only teams that seriously have a shot are either Lakers, Celtics, or Heat.

The Lakers, Celtics, and Heat don't need a million dominoes to fall in the right place to win. They just have to be better than the other.

I think the Spurs will have a fine regular season (54 games) and make it to the conference finals, but they aren't talented/athletic/tall enough to match the Lakers and Heat.

, last year Orlando threw the Spurs to the curb. It was a regular season game, but they dominated them. I don't even think the Spurs could get by Orlando.

Spurs would fare best against the C's because of matchups, but I'd still give a definitive edge to Boston.

Here's what I like about the Spurs:

- Tony Parker will be as good as he's been in 2 years.
- Splitter is going to grab rebounds and affect shots in the paint. He also gives an option on offense.
- Richard Jefferson has a year of experience in the system

Here's what takes them out of contention:

- Duncan is on his last legs. He can't play back-to-backs and he has to have his minutes severely limited. Even then, he's not always effective.
- Spurs still count on Matt Bonner for heavy production. This is pretty embarrassing. You don't see Boston milking Scalabrine.
- Richard Jefferson isn't going to all of a sudden flip the switch. He'll probably have less mental mistakes and flow better in the offense, but he's still Richard Jefferson, a soft, weak NBA player who has no confidence unless he gets a dunk.
- Spurs don't have consistent, knockdown offensive shooters to spread the floor.
- Lack of athleticism/height. Same problems for the Spurs. They always fight an uphill battle against the Lakers because of this.
- Still missing a perimeter defender to guard superstar 2/3s.
- Pop will go against common sense and is stubborn as a mule. He almost never makes a change in his philosophy/thinking until it's too late.

The Spurs were looking pretty good when they got swept off their feet by the Suns. Then, the Suns got handled by the Lakers. That goes a long way in telling you where the Spurs are at.

I think the Magic would handle the Spurs pretty easily. I think the Heat would make the Spurs look like the Angola women's team. Lebron and Dwayne Wade would eat the Spurs alive.

This is a well thought out post. You almost have me doubting my thoughts on the matter. However I STILL disagree. Now granted this is base that duncan has one last big run left. If he does. i think the spurs matchup well with every team listed EXCEPT the Heat. But the Heat are not promised a trip to the finals anyway. but even so I would give the spurs a small chance.

The only clear advantages the Heat have on the spurs are: SF and SG. now i admit those look to be grand canyon wide advantages but let me at leats make a case for Manu (my 2nd favorite spur) ...

In a big game (when healthy) is Wade really THAT much better than Manu?
If Manu can give you a few vintage games in a series (remember in 2008 when he led the spurs to their one victory over the Lakers inthe WCF) I think it off-sets a bit what wade will do to the spurs on defense. Besides as great as wade is I've seen hinrich do a solid job on him ...you telling me Manu couldnt do half as good?

Well Lebron will on RJ? Yes, there i no way for me to sugar coat it.
Duncan can still dominate Bosh and if they played him 1 on 1, and would probably foul him out on top of it. Problem is Im guessing they swarm duncan if he is abusing Bosh. The spurs shooters would have to make them pay.
Spliiter should be as good as Z or whomever the Heat put at center.

Ultimately I think the spurs don't matchup well with the heat, due to the lack of perimeter defenders. And Pop would be crazy to play small ball against them.

Key to matching heat is to shoot a high %, pound their soft middle, take advantage of the gambling wade and Lebron and control the boards also force Lebron to jack up his 30 feet deep 3's ...pack the paint against drives even if you give up 3's.

[rmt]

The only way the Spurs win the championship is season-ending injuries to Kobe and KG. They probably need even more than just a KG injury as Bos still has the 2 O'neals, Perkins and Big Baby.

I'd give them more of a chance against the Heat than LA and Bos just because MIA doesn't have much depth and haven't been through the wars together. They probably still couldn't beat the Magic either - so add an injury to one of their top 3 players. In other words, it would take a miracle.

[2Cleva]

This is a well thought out post. You almost have me doubting my thoughts on the matter. However I STILL disagree. Now granted this is base that duncan has one last big run left. If he does. i think the spurs matchup well with every team listed EXCEPT the Heat. But the Heat are not promised a trip to the finals anyway. but even so I would give the spurs a small chance.

The only clear advantages the Heat have on the spurs are: SF and SG. now i admit those look to be grand canyon wide advantages but let me at leats make a case for Manu (my 2nd favorite spur) ...

In a big game (when healthy) is Wade really THAT much better than Manu?
If Manu can give you a few vintage games in a series (remember in 2008 when he led the spurs to their one victory over the Lakers inthe WCF) I think it off-sets a bit what wade will do to the spurs on defense. Besides as great as wade is I've seen hinrich do a solid job on him ...you telling me Manu couldnt do half as good?

Well Lebron will on RJ? Yes, there i no way for me to sugar coat it.
Duncan can still dominate Bosh and if they played him 1 on 1, and would probably foul him out on top of it. Problem is Im guessing they swarm duncan if he is abusing Bosh. The spurs shooters would have to make them pay.
Spliiter should be as good as Z or whomever the Heat put at center.

Ultimately I think the spurs don't matchup well with the heat, due to the lack of perimeter defenders. And Pop would be crazy to play small ball against them.

Key to matching heat is to shoot a high %, pound their soft middle, take advantage of the gambling wade and Lebron and control the boards also force Lebron to jack up his 30 feet deep 3's ...pack the paint against drives even if you give up 3's.

Please. Be honest, don't try to kiss ass.

[timtonymanu]

The resigning of Bonner and RJ was enough to tell me what direction this team was heading into. You give long term contracts to two of the worst playoff performers we had in the rotation last year. I am still trying to figure out what made Bonner so valuable to this team that he got an extension. I thought that would only go to true rotation players - Bowen. So Bonner is just as valuable as Bowen was to the Spurs? GTFO of here.

This team is no longer a contender like the Lakers or the Heat. Sure, the big 3 will come into the season healthy but they could still easily get hurt midway again. And we still have not one perimeter defender. Our best is probably Hill, but we saw how awesome of a job he did with Nash.

The only thing I feel good about is that now we have Splitter and Anderson to add to our youth movement.

Despite all these doubts I have, I know I cant count my team out. They pretty much looked like a contender at the end of last season, but the big 3 were gassed already.

For things to work out, everyone has to take some slack off the big 3. I feel like Hill can do it. Blair hopefully. RJ and Dice have to. Splitter should be decent. Our bench needs to be able to lead our team so our big 3 is fresh for the playoffs. I dont want to see Duncan have to carry the slack for the first part of the season and then either Manu/Parker carry the second half.

I'm still expecting the Spurs to play like they want a le so hopefully things work out.

[Ace]

This is a well thought out post. You almost have me doubting my thoughts on the matter. However I STILL disagree. Now granted this is base that duncan has one last big run left. If he does. i think the spurs matchup well with every team listed EXCEPT the Heat. But the Heat are not promised a trip to the finals anyway. but even so I would give the spurs a small chance.

The only clear advantages the Heat have on the spurs are: SF and SG. now i admit those look to be grand canyon wide advantages but let me at leats make a case for Manu (my 2nd favorite spur) ...

In a big game (when healthy) is Wade really THAT much better than Manu?
If Manu can give you a few vintage games in a series (remember in 2008 when he led the spurs to their one victory over the Lakers inthe WCF) I think it off-sets a bit what wade will do to the spurs on defense. Besides as great as wade is I've seen hinrich do a solid job on him ...you telling me Manu couldnt do half as good?

Well Lebron will on RJ? Yes, there i no way for me to sugar coat it.
Duncan can still dominate Bosh and if they played him 1 on 1, and would probably foul him out on top of it. Problem is Im guessing they swarm duncan if he is abusing Bosh. The spurs shooters would have to make them pay.
Spliiter should be as good as Z or whomever the Heat put at center.

Ultimately I think the spurs don't matchup well with the heat, due to the lack of perimeter defenders. And Pop would be crazy to play small ball against them.

Key to matching heat is to shoot a high %, pound their soft middle, take advantage of the gambling wade and Lebron and control the boards also force Lebron to jack up his 30 feet deep 3's ...pack the paint against drives even if you give up 3's.

Wouldn't be much a series tbh...

[TD 21]

They are a long shot for sure, but they belong in the discussion. I believe that there are 5 teams that are capable of winning a championship . . . the Spurs are one of them.

yes. definitely. and I'm not one to hype up the spurs either. I've predicted the Spurs to lose/fail on many occasions. people are just so concerned with what the media says that they belive they're not, but I believe at the end of the day they'll contend.

Too many question marks to be consider as a contender at this moment. However, if everything goes our way, we may be contending next year. If Celtics can do it this year, we have the chance to do likewise

Every team in the NBA has ifs . . . Kobe has played three seasons in a row with nagging injuries without any real significant time out, The Heat will have some glaring, exploitable weaknesses that Lebron and Wade will not always be able to cover up, The Celtics keep getting older and not necessarily better . . . no other team in the league has a player, of any significance, with championship pedigree.

I believe the Spurs will be a significantly better (+5 wins) team this season and will have enough solid contributors during the regular season to afford Duncan and Ginobili better health in the playoffs. I certainly wouldn't give Oklahoma City and Orlando a better chance at winning a championship over the Spurs.

Duncan and Ginobili both spent a significant percentage of the 2009-10 season literally carrying the team on their backs and Parker was injured nearly the entire year. So, I think it's a little too early to nail the coffin on the big three. They will have an most improved, talented roster and while they are certainly not the front runner, they could easily get hot at the right time and make a deep run. They have the guns, the experience and the potential. It's far too early for absolution.

[Killakobe81]

Please. Be honest, don't try to kiss ass.

Maybe I'm biased because I lived there for a short while, IDK but I don't think they are dead. I don't have to kiss ass. Go in to the NBA forum, I have been arguing for two days straight (off and on)that kobe is greater than Tim. I just respect duncan a lot and Manu as a champion as well. Would I bet my mortgage on the spurs? ... no!!!! But would I bet my mortgage against them either ... probably not. A paycheck maybe. Like I said I'm confident lakers will beat them but I see the spurs as a tough out. I at least expect a much tougher series if they get there than 2008 ...you don't agree?

Also you guys don't think duncan has one last run left in him? With help, how do we not know if he pulls a Kareem in 1985?

[Bruno]

There is one contender: Miami Heat.

All the other teams aren't in the same league than them.

[TD 21]

Really? What have they won?

I don't care how promising a team looks, I'm not anointing them before they've even played a game together, let alone done anything of significance.

They obviously appear to be one of the two teams to beat, but I've got the Lakers as the favorites and not just because they're the defending champs. Their continuity and size (where the Heat are most vulnerable) should be enough to hold them off for a year, unless Bryant drops another level.

Solid post, Killakobe81.

[ohmwrecker]

A top 6 team is just that, a top 6 team but they're light years away from the Lakers or Heat. Your definiton may be different, but when I think of contender, I think of a team that legitimately has a shot at a championship.

Under that definition, the only teams that seriously have a shot are either Lakers, Celtics, or Heat.

The Lakers, Celtics, and Heat don't need a million dominoes to fall in the right place to win. They just have to be better than the other.

I think the Spurs will have a fine regular season (54 games) and make it to the conference finals, but they aren't talented/athletic/tall enough to match the Lakers and Heat. , last year Orlando threw the Spurs to the curb. It was a regular season game, but they dominated them. I don't even think the Spurs could get by Orlando. Spurs would fare best against the C's because of matchups, but I'd still give a definitive edge to Boston.

I would put the Spurs higher than 6 in regards to having the tools to win a championship. The core of the team has won three championships. The demise of Tim Duncan is being greatly exaggerated here (he was forced to carry the team in the first third of the season). Tony Parker is set to have a possible All-Star level year and Manu almost single handed, led the Spurs into the playoffs last season.
This season's squad is greatly improved. As inconsistent and, at times just bad, as the Spurs were last season, they still played the elite teams very well and beat them when it mattered. Your memory is not very good, because the last time they played the Magic, the Spurs won . . . convincingly (43 pt. game from Manu). They also played the Lakers very well, and with the addition of Splitter, they have a legit big to counter Gasol, taking a lot of pressure off Duncan.
Call me a homer, but the Spurs are still a dangerous team and deserve to be in the conversation, regardless of the way their season ended last year.

Here's what I like about the Spurs:

My point by point response in BOLD

- Tony Parker will be as good as he's been in 2 years. Agreed.
- Splitter is going to grab rebounds and affect shots in the paint. He also gives an option on offense. Sure.
- Richard Jefferson has a year of experience in the system. Obviously.

Here's what takes them out of contention:

- Duncan is on his last legs. He can't play back-to-backs and he has to have his minutes severely limited. Even then, he's not always effective.
Duncan has more help this year with Splitter and a 2nd year Blair. McDyess should get more regular season rest and they can afford to play Bonner as a situational/match-up guy.
- Spurs still count on Matt Bonner for heavy production. This is pretty embarrassing. You don't see Boston milking Scalabrine.
Not as much this season and, as funny as the comparison is, Bonner is a much better player than Scalabrine.
- Richard Jefferson isn't going to all of a sudden flip the switch. He'll probably have less mental mistakes and flow better in the offense, but he's still Richard Jefferson, a soft, weak NBA player who has no confidence unless he gets a dunk.
RJ doesn't need to "flip the switch". The problem is not as severe as everyone makes it out to be. All he needs to do is make a few key adjustments to his game and once he sees some consistency, everything else will fall in line.
- Spurs don't have consistent, knockdown offensive shooters to spread the floor.
They have Parker, who before the injury riddled season, had a much improved jumper, Manu, who is one of the best clutch shooters in the NBA, George Hill, who was the most consistent "corner 3" shooter last season . . . and, even with all the unknowns, Anderson, Gee and Neal are already a HUGE improvement over Bogans and Mason.
- Lack of athleticism/height. Same problems for the Spurs. They always fight an uphill battle against the Lakers because of this.
Healthy, contract year Parker/Splitter.
- Still missing a perimeter defender to guard superstar 2/3s.
By committee Anderson, Gee and Neal > Bogans/Mason. I wouldn't be surprised to see another player come in by mid-season either.
- Pop will go against common sense and is stubborn as a mule. He almost never makes a change in his philosophy/thinking until it's too late.
Splitter guarantees less small ball and the youth movement is here . . . He has no choice.

The Spurs were looking pretty good when they got swept off their feet by the Suns. Then, the Suns got handled by the Lakers. That goes a long way in telling you where the Spurs are at.
Wrong. Totally different match ups and style of play. The Spurs/Suns series last season tells you nothing about a potential Spurs/Lakers series this season.

I think the Magic would handle the Spurs pretty easily. I think the Heat would make the Spurs look like the Angola women's team. Lebron and Dwayne Wade would eat the Spurs alive.

You lost all your credibility with that last bit . . . the Magic are not that great and the Heat, beyond the hugely overrated Bosh, have one of the weakest frontlines in the league. LeBron and Wade are good, but not good enough to cover all 5 positions against good teams. Defending elite wing players is still a pretty big issue for the Spurs, but Jefferson actually defended LeBron pretty well in that last game vs. Cleveland.

I'm not saying it's going to be easy, but the Spurs deserve to be in the conversation and are being too harshly dismissed here.

[DPG21920]

I would put the Spurs higher than 6 in regards to having the tools to win a championship. The core of the team has won three championships. The demise of Tim Duncan is being greatly exaggerated here (he was forced to carry the team in the first third of the season). Tony Parker is set to have a possible All-Star level year and Manu almost single handed, led the Spurs into the playoffs last season.
This season's squad is greatly improved. As inconsistent and, at times just bad, as the Spurs were last season, they still played the elite teams very well and beat them when it mattered. Your memory is not very good, because the last time they played the Magic, the Spurs won . . . convincingly (43 pt. game from Manu). They also played the Lakers very well, and with the addition of Splitter, they have a legit big to counter Gasol, taking a lot of pressure off Duncan.
Call me a homer, but the Spurs are still a dangerous team and deserve to be in the conversation, regardless of the way their season ended last year.

See, what I don't get is how you (and others) can dismiss other people's arguments because we have not seen MIA play or things like that, only to turn around and make a completely unsubstantiated claim like the one I highlighted above.

How do you know the Spurs are "greatly improved"? Splitter is not Pau or on that level. The Spurs re-signed a terrible fit in RJ, a playoff choker in Bonner and added no significant, known quan ies. They added no vets that you can logically assume will help the obvious match up problems the elite present.

They took a team that was swept, extended the worst fit (that has mentioned he does not want to be here) and added a bunch of unproven and questionable rookies.

How on Earth can you say the team is greatly improved when there are so many unknowns and when the team brought back the players that played a large role in getting the Spurs swept?

You also talk about people placing too much on RJ's struggles and Tim's decline? How can you say that? How can you back that up with facts and not opinion?

I watched RJ. In my opinion, it is not as simple as "making a few adjustments and everything will fall in line." The adjustments that need to be made in order to make the Spurs true contenders are not things that can just happen easily, because either RJ has never shown the consistent ability or his age has caught up. Either way, you are using strictly opinion and optimism and passing it off as simple fact.

The people worried about RJ and Tim have numbers and a playoff sweep to justify their worries.

Point is, you are using arguments that you are arguing against. At least in logic.

[fantasyfootball]

I would put the Spurs higher than 6 in regards to having the tools to win a championship. The core of the team has won three championships. The demise of Tim Duncan is being greatly exaggerated here (he was forced to carry the team in the first third of the season). Tony Parker is set to have a possible All-Star level year and Manu almost single handed, led the Spurs into the playoffs last season.
This season's squad is greatly improved. As inconsistent and, at times just bad, as the Spurs were last season, they still played the elite teams very well and beat them when it mattered. Your memory is not very good, because the last time they played the Magic, the Spurs won . . . convincingly (43 pt. game from Manu). They also played the Lakers very well, and with the addition of Splitter, they have a legit big to counter Gasol, taking a lot of pressure off Duncan.
Call me a homer, but the Spurs are still a dangerous team and deserve to be in the conversation, regardless of the way their season ended last year.



You lost all your credibility with that last bit . . . the Magic are not that great and the Heat, beyond the hugely overrated Bosh, have one of the weakest frontlines in the league. LeBron and Wade are good, but not good enough to cover all 5 positions against good teams. Defending elite wing players is still a pretty big issue for the Spurs, but Jefferson actually defended LeBron pretty well in that last game vs. Cleveland.

I'm not saying it's going to be easy, but the Spurs deserve to be in the conversation and are being too harshly dismissed here.

How have I lost any credibility? All you did was disagree with me using your opinions. On Orlando, I'm remembering the game they thrashed them in Florida.

If you want to put them in the discussion, talking up their potential and overplaying other teams flaws, it's understandable a Spurs fan would want to do so. At the end of the season though, they won't be champions. You probably still won't agree even in retrospect that they didn't deserve "contender" status. In your eyes, they'll still have been contenders despite never seriously being in contention. Such is how a blinded fan thinks.

And I stand by Orlando > Spurs.

Neither of us is going to change the other's opinion so we'll just have to wait until the playoffs.

[ohmwrecker]

See, what I don't get is how you (and others) can dismiss other people's arguments because we have not seen MIA play or things like that, only to turn around and make a completely unsubstantiated claim like the one I highlighted above.

The same way that you (and others) dismiss the Spurs chances against LA and Miami without waiting to see how things shake down this coming season. Everyone is operating on assumptions and opinions at this point.

How do you know the Spurs are "greatly improved"? Splitter is not Pau or on that level. The Spurs re-signed a terrible fit in RJ, a playoff choker in Bonner and added no significant, known quan ies. They added no vets that you can logically assume will help the obvious match up problems the elite present.

Come on, man . . . I never said Splitter was on Pau's level. You are using gross misinterpretation to make your point. What I DID say is that having another legit big will HELP defend teams who have strong frontlines and take a lot of pressure off Duncan. I'm not saying Splitter is the "golden god" 2nd coming of D-Rob, but he will be a big help. Add Splitter to a team that will have a healthy TP and Manu to START the season, Blair and RJ in their 2nd year, an ever-improving Hill in his third and a couple of high potential young guys . . . and I see an improved team. I don't know what's going to happen . . . nobody does.

They took a team that was swept, extended the worst fit (that has mentioned he does not want to be here) and added a bunch of unproven and questionable rookies.

How on Earth can you say the team is greatly improved when there are so many unknowns and when the team brought back the players that played a large role in getting the Spurs swept?

The Spurs struggled mightily last season. I'm not denying that. They squeeked into the playoffs, over-extended themselves against Dallas and ran into a revenge-fueled buzzsaw in Phoenix. Blaming Bonner and Jefferson for that debacle is like spitting on a fire to out it out. Duncan, Ginobili and Parker (and Popovich) deserve most of the blame. Their job is to step up in those situations and take the pressure off the supporting cast. When the big three are rolling in the playoffs, the role players/bench perform better. The entire team lost that series.

You also talk about people placing too much on RJ's struggles and Tim's decline? How can you say that? How can you back that up with facts and not opinion?
I watched RJ. In my opinion, it is not as simple as "making a few adjustments and everything will fall in line." The adjustments that need to be made in order to make the Spurs true contenders are not things that can just happen easily, because either RJ has never shown the consistent ability or his age has caught up. Either way, you are using strictly opinion and optimism and passing it off as simple fact. The people worried about RJ and Tim have numbers and a playoff sweep to justify their worries.

I think you just answered your own question there, dude . . . I'm not trying to pass off anything as simple fact. I just don't see the RJ situation as dire and hopelessly unfortunate as you seem to. I don't think he is a bad fit and even if he was, it is Pop's job to correct that. Other coaches do it ALL THE TIME . . . I saw Pop and Tim give up on this team a lot last season because things weren't going well and it wasn't "easy". They got a little too comfortable the past few years and they had to re-learn that becoming a championship team is hard work. In my opinion, they will have a better roster this season and more help. Again, I'm not saying they are going to win a championship, but they belong in the conversation.

Point is, you are using arguments that you are arguing against. At least in logic.

Huh? Mind if I do a J?

[ohmwrecker]

How have I lost any credibility? All you did was disagree with me using your opinions. On Orlando, I'm remembering the game they thrashed them in Florida.

Not really . . . I mentioned the specific game in April when both teams, heading into the post season should have been playing their best basketball, and the Spurs defeated the Magic convincingly. How is that "my opinion"? It actually happened . . . look it up.

If you want to put them in the discussion, talking up their potential and overplaying other teams flaws, it's understandable a Spurs fan would want to do so. At the end of the season though, they won't be champions. You probably still won't agree even in retrospect that they didn't deserve "contender" status. In your eyes, they'll still have been contenders despite never seriously being in contention. Such is how a blinded fan thinks.

At the end of the season, odds are, they won't be champions. I am totally realistic about their chances, but I'm not going to be a miserable, defeatist and absolutist about it either. You are making a lot of misguided and uninformed conclusions about what I think. I didn't do that with you. Honestly, that tact is pretty ing weak. Passive/aggressive bull .

I'm not blind at all. I am choosing to focus on the positives over the negatives for the purposes of this discussion.

And I stand by Orlando > Spurs.

Neat.

Neither of us is going to change the other's opinion so we'll just have to wait until the playoffs.

So, you think the Spurs will make the playoffs? I guess that's a step in the right direction.

[Gagnrath]

There are a few things here that are known. The Heat aren't one of them and untill i see a few games I'm not passing much judgement on them, will call them, contender #5 for the moment.

Contender 1. Lakers v Spurs. This is the team that the spurs are made to compete against.

Artest is 1 year older slower and fatter without getting any smarter or saner. SF advantage slightly to the spurs with Jefferson which is kinda bad.

Center Bynum V Dice Advantage Lakers though not huge if Bynum is healthy.... If Bynum is healthy.

Power Forward Duncan v Gaso.....l Duncan is old Gasol is soft and doesn't handle pressure matchup cancels.

SG Manu v Kobe advantage lakers This one is interesting though

PG Parker v D. Fisher, Parker should walk away with this.

Bench Spurs v Odom and Barnes Advantage spurs


Contender #2 Celtics v Spurs classic match-ups all depends on health

Contender #3 The Magic v Spurs

This is what happens when you don't teach a really promising center how to use skills. Please stop it with basing your whole offence on a movement 3pt shot or on a dunk by Howard. This comes down to staying home on the shooters, and frustrating Howard. Having someone he can't push around in Blair is huge and yes Blair will foul out first but will also get Howard 3 or four fouls in the first half then he either plays tentative or fouls out with 10 to 15 minutes left in close games when facing either Duncan or Splitter. He will also collect fouls quickly altering Manu and Parker drives


Dallas can be dismissed, and the Suns are done. The Heat aren't going to be the dream team reincarnated and playing together in the NBA. The thing that is scary out west is that Portland and Oklahoma both have very good young teams that are capable of going on a role and beating either the Lakers or the Spurs with younger healthier players if everything falls well for them. Chicago may be the same in the east.

[cantthinkofanything]

There are a few things here that are known. The Heat aren't one of them and untill i see a few games I'm not passing much judgement on them, will call them, contender #5 for the moment.

Contender 1. Lakers v Spurs. This is the team that the spurs are made to compete against.

Artest is 1 year older slower and fatter without getting any smarter or saner. SF advantage slightly to the spurs with Jefferson which is kinda bad.

Center Bynum V Dice Advantage Lakers though not huge if Bynum is healthy.... If Bynum is healthy.

Power Forward Duncan v Gaso.....l Duncan is old Gasol is soft and doesn't handle pressure matchup cancels.

SG Manu v Kobe advantage lakers This one is interesting though

PG Parker v D. Fisher, Parker should walk away with this.

Bench Spurs v Odom and Barnes Advantage spurs


Contender #2 Celtics v Spurs classic match-ups all depends on health

Contender #3 The Magic v Spurs

This is what happens when you don't teach a really promising center how to use skills. Please stop it with basing your whole offence on a movement 3pt shot or on a dunk by Howard. This comes down to staying home on the shooters, and frustrating Howard. Having someone he can't push around in Blair is huge and yes Blair will foul out first but will also get Howard 3 or four fouls in the first half then he either plays tentative or fouls out with 10 to 15 minutes left in close games when facing either Duncan or Splitter. He will also collect fouls quickly altering Manu and Parker drives


Dallas can be dismissed, and the Suns are done. The Heat aren't going to be the dream team reincarnated and playing together in the NBA. The thing that is scary out west is that Portland and Oklahoma both have very good young teams that are capable of going on a role and beating either the Lakers or the Spurs with younger healthier players if everything falls well for them. Chicago may be the same in the east.

Well thought out and nicely explained. Thanks for the analysis.

[TheManFromAcme]

Maybe I'm biased because I lived there for a short while, IDK but I don't think they are dead. I don't have to kiss ass. Go in to the NBA forum, I have been arguing for two days straight (off and on)that kobe is greater than Tim. I just respect duncan a lot and Manu as a champion as well. Would I bet my mortgage on the spurs? ... no!!!! But would I bet my mortgage against them either ... probably not. A paycheck maybe. Like I said I'm confident lakers will beat them but I see the spurs as a tough out. I at least expect a much tougher series if they get there than 2008 ...you don't agree?

Also you guys don't think duncan has one last run left in him? With help, how do we not know if he pulls a Kareem in 1985?

Same here. I agree with Killa.
Can't sleep on the Spurs if for anything Tim, Tony and Manu have tasted LOB gold. Besides the Lakers, who else in the west has this distinction?

These old soilders, at least for Manu and Tim, still have some fight.