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  1. #51
    Believe. Parker2112's Avatar
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    But actually, fuzzy, I think you're claim that they are beholden to the taxpayers is flat out wrong, given that our government has not and cannot see their books. If we cant audit, how can we have any control?

    Here is a discussion of Ron Paul's proposed legislation to see the books.

    http://www.ronpaul.com/legislation/a...serve-hr-1207/

  2. #52
    Believe. Parker2112's Avatar
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    So increased demand is also "taxation without representation"?
    This is the stupidest leap of logic I think you could have made from everything I said above. Really. Really dumb. Congrats, you have topped yourself!

  3. #53
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    2) Does this debasement of currency mean that it takes longer for the average person to earn enough money in an average job to buy a loaf of bread? (simple yes or no will do)
    2) Not necessarily. But keep in mind, many citizens are on a fixed income that does not come from earnings.
    So the answer is no.

    If labor's earning power is unaffected, then why should someone who works care if inflation is present?

    Productivity gains that more than outstrip inflation mean that buying power actually goes up.

    If your contention is that we are all so much worse off than we were in 1920 when the dollar was "worth more", then why does it take so much less time for the average person to earn enough money to buy a loaf of bread in 2010, than in 1910?

    Doesn't that mean that we are generally better off, despite this inflation?

  4. #54
    Believe.
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    What we are seeing is beyond inflation. Its hyperinflation.

    And as for the Fed, they must be beholden to some extent if Paulsen had to resort to fear mongering as well:
    http://www.inflationdata.com/inflati...tinflation.asp

    Hyperinflation? The data does not agree. Sure the economy is but that is hardly the feds fault exclusively.

    As for the accountability to the public, sure. Thats the federal government's MO nowadays in pretty much everything and has been for a long time. He still has to report to an elected official.

  5. #55
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Show your work. Besides, the fact that you can regurgitate the stuff they hand you doesnt say much...let's see you apply what you know with some success.

    Thus far, I havent seen anything but peremptory arrogance on your part.

    Lets take score:
    1) no clue on the Federal Reserve's operation
    2) No clue on History
    3) No opinion on any matter at issue
    4) A continuing attempt to attack the speaker, rather than the statement.

    Sounds like a run of the mill repug tactic...you might want to check you're approach. I give it the same grade I would give most of the repugs around here....
    Yes, yes, I have no idea how the Fed operates, I have no idea as to the history of the Fed, and this is the very first time I have ever talked about this subject with a conspiracy theorist on the internet.

    I have never read the lengthy articles, watched the scary youtubes, or talked about this for hours over the course of the last 10 years in various internet forums.

    I do not have 50+ hours of graduate finance and economics courses, and I never got A's in them.

    So it is up to you, noble internet crusader to fill my empty head with your your awesome ideas.

    Preach on, brother.


    That being out of the way...

  6. #56
    Believe. Parker2112's Avatar
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    And yet you haven't stated a single credible fact about the federal reserve system in this thread. Sounds like someone didnt get their money's worth!

  7. #57
    Believe. Parker2112's Avatar
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    http://www.inflationdata.com/inflati...tinflation.asp

    Hyperinflation? The data does not agree. Sure the economy is but that is hardly the feds fault exclusively.

    As for the accountability to the public, sure. Thats the federal government's MO nowadays in pretty much everything and has been for a long time. He still has to report to an elected official.
    The additional currency doesnt have an immediate affect on prices. Economic confidence delays the effects.

  8. #58
    Believe. Parker2112's Avatar
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    He still has to report to an elected official.
    I can imagine a ton of scenarios where the tail wags the dog here. Which I think have been stated over and over through the years.

  9. #59
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    This is the stupidest leap of logic I think you could have made from everything I said above. Really. Really dumb. Congrats, you have topped yourself!
    It was a simple question to clarify what it is you are trying to say.

    The le of the thread is, in case you didn't notice,

    "Inflation = Taxation"

    The logical form is A = B

    You acknowledged
    "if increase in money supply, then inflation"
    If C, then A

    You also acknowledged
    "if increase in demand for goods, then inflation"
    If D, then A

    Since you yourself made A = B, then simple logical subs ution rules dicatate that If D, then A = B.

    You did not qualify "some inflation = taxation"

    My logic may be a bit rusty, but I can dig up that text book as well, to double check. Yes, I got an A in that class too. It was fun.

  10. #60
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    I can imagine a ton of scenarios where the tail wags the dog here. Which I think have been stated over and over through the years.
    I can imagine purple unicorns.

    Does that make my imagination's exercise valid?

  11. #61
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    And yet you haven't stated a single credible fact about the federal reserve system in this thread. Sounds like someone didnt get their money's worth!
    I'm sorry, I missed where "stating credible facts" was listed as a prerequisite for participating.

    Do be so kind as to tell me what credible facts you want, and I will be happy to produce them.

  12. #62
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    So you think they are intentionally causing harm?

    Do you have some first-hand statements that shows they are intentionally "plucking" wealth from the middle class?
    Still waiting on this one.

  13. #63
    Believe.
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    The additional currency doesnt have an immediate affect on prices. Economic confidence delays the effects.
    I can imagine a ton of scenarios where the tail wags the dog here. Which I think have been stated over and over through the years.
    This a history that covers decades. There is no empirical evidence to substantiate your claim or really anything at all.

    The last major inflation period was triggered by OPEC 30 years ago.

    I am sure there is quite a bit of back and forth but that works both ways.

  14. #64
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    What we are seeing is beyond inflation. Its hyperinflation.
    Really?

    Please define "hyperinflation".

    My limited understanding is that the loaf of bread I just bought seems to be stubbornly the same price it was last month.

    Please do elaborate.

  15. #65
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    The additional currency doesnt have an immediate affect on prices. Economic confidence delays the effects.
    Tell us then, if the hyperinflation is not now, then when?

    Be sure to be as specific as possible, so we have a testable date.



    Be sure to spend all of your money on gold, too.

    If you are convinced, put your money where your mouth is.

  16. #66
    Believe.
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    Tell us then, if the hyperinflation is not now, then when?

    Be sure to be as specific as possible, so we have a testable date.



    Be sure to spend all of your money on gold, too.

    If you are convinced, put your money where your mouth is.
    Gold is so overvalued right now that typically volatile markets like commodities have a better prospectus.

  17. #67
    Believe. Parker2112's Avatar
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    This a history that covers decades. There is no empirical evidence to substantiate your claim or really anything at all.

    The last major inflation period was triggered by OPEC 30 years ago.

    I am sure there is quite a bit of back and forth but that works both ways.
    Fail.

    The dollar is worth about 97% less today than it was when the Fed Reserve act was passed. Do the research

  18. #68
    Believe. Parker2112's Avatar
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    this is exactly your MO, RG... the further you are from truth, the more material you post.

  19. #69
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Gold is so overvalued right now that typically volatile markets like commodities have a better prospectus.
    If hyperinflation is in the offing, then gold is extremely undervalued at the moment.

    Parker, since he seems to believe hyperinflation is imminent, should be buying all the gold he can get his hands on, and borrowing as much money as he possibly can to do it, since that debt will be super cheap in the future for the same reasons.

    If Parker is not doing these things, we can safely assume he doesn't buy his own bull either.

  20. #70
    Believe. Parker2112's Avatar
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  21. #71
    Believe. Parker2112's Avatar
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    this is exactly your MO, RG... the further you are from truth, the more material you post.
    COme to think of it, that is the best time to STFU and listen. Take a hint.

  22. #72
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    this is exactly your MO, RG... the further you are from truth, the more material you post.
    Tell us then, if the hyperinflation is not now, then when?

    Please define hyperinflation.

  23. #73
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    So how long did it take an average wage-earner to earn enough money to buy a loaf of bread in 1913?

    in 2010?

    Do the research and get back to us champ.

  24. #74
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    COme to think of it, that is the best time to STFU and listen. Take a hint.
    You only wish that people would sheepishly accept everything you say as if it is manna from heaven.

    I know when my boots are being pissed on.

  25. #75
    Believe.
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    Fail.

    The dollar is worth about 97% less today than it was when the Fed Reserve act was passed. Do the research
    Compared to what? Its a function of buying power and the cost of goods. I assume that by hyperinflation you are talking about major inflation above 8% or the like.

    Can you show anything that indicates a correlation of the fed lending out tons of cash and hyperinflation? I know there was some 'hyperinflation' back in the late 70s but fed currency manipulation was not the cause of it. OPEC started price fixing.

    And now you are starting to get ty. Do you really want to go down that path?

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