How should I put this...what's your favorite War?

[The Gemini Method]

It would have to be the Cambodian actor if it happened b/c Sam Waterston was the main lead. Sad to hear though, if it is in fact true.

Yeah, it was the Cambodian lead...

Getting back to what you both were mentioning earlier, I agree about the need for education of these wars. One of the inspirations (for lack of a better word) for starting this thread was a conversation me and one of my former students (used to teach broadcasting and publications at a high school back in 04-05) had about good WWII movies." I said I wished there were more WWI movies period, to which he followed with something like, "nothing really happened in that war anyways." Just astonished by the ignorance, and of course it's not all his fault.

While there is a wealth of knowledge on WWI to be learned, it isn't always in the sexy form of dispersement. The one thing that the internet age has allowed is the ability to self-educate one's self about things like the impact WWI had and so on. The downside of today's youth is that if it isn't instant gratification, they don't want any part of it. I got the same kinda reaction from my gf about why I was so enthused about The Pacific being released on Blu-Ray and I told her that it is important we keep in perspective of what we did(do) as a people. That as the last remaining veterans of WW2 slip away, we're losing the firsthand accounts and if it takes shows like The Pacific to keep the history of just 65-70 years ago...then I'm going to do my best in keeping informed. Also, I throw in the cliche...if it weren't for them we'd probably have regressed as a society...

Haing S. Ngor:

http://www.cnn.com/US/9602/haing_ngor/index.html

[Duff McCartney]

It would have to be the Cambodian actor if it happened b/c Sam Waterston was the main lead. Sad to hear though, if it is in fact true.

Getting back to what you both were mentioning earlier, I agree about the need for education of these wars. One of the inspirations (for lack of a better word) for starting this thread was a conversation me and one of my former students (used to teach broadcasting and publications at a high school back in 04-05) had about good WWII movies." I said I wished there were more WWI movies period, to which he followed with something like, "nothing really happened in that war anyways." Just astonished by the ignorance, and of course it's not all his fault.

I just don't think schools nowadays are putting it in the proper context. I think alot of people who don't know history just consider WWI and WWII to be separate wars and that they have no relation to each other.

There was infinitely more things that went into the build up of WWI than of WWII. I love studying both and I think because WWI has no "Holocaust" to speak of and that's why he might say that.

In WWII you had that, Pearl Harbor, and the Atomic Bomb. I think that in studying both wars for WWI you have to look at Europe probably from the French Revolution up until 1914 to grasp what it was about. WWII you could look at from 1945 up until now what it has done.

In a sense, I believe that other than the actual fighting, WWI you could look at the pre-history and for WWII the post-history to see what they really mean in the historical context.

[DeadlyDynasty]

I just don't think schools nowadays are putting it in the proper context. I think alot of people who don't know history just consider WWI and WWII to be separate wars and that they have no relation to each other.

There was infinitely more things that went into the build up of WWI than of WWII. I love studying both and I think because WWI has no "Holocaust" to speak of and that's why he might say that.

In WWII you had that, Pearl Harbor, and the Atomic Bomb. I think that in studying both wars for WWI you have to look at Europe probably from the French Revolution up until 1914 to grasp what it was about. WWII you could look at from 1945 up until now what it has done.

In a sense, I believe that other than the actual fighting, WWI you could look at the pre-history and for WWII the post-history to see what they really mean in the historical context.

Agreed, especially with the correlation of pretty much every major conflict in the last 200 years. The Crimean War, and later, the Franco-Prussian War were huge omens of WWI. Especially since, in the latter of the two, Bismarck pretty much decimated many French cities.

[leemajors]

For sheer brutality? The Civil War tops probably both. The death stats were about the same, but WWII came with a weapon that trumps all that and created a psyche of mass paranoia, the atomic/nuclear bomb. The millions killed to end the war and thousands of death post-Hiroshima and Nagasaki with the advent of the Cold War, Korean War, Vietnam War, and the arms race. Also, you have to factor in the untold thousands that died in the game of espionage. People who weren't around the inner circles of the government rarely knew or digested how close we were to a nuclear holocaust in the 50's and 60's. Just imagine what might have happened if the fortunes were not as favorable during the Cuban Missle Crisis. All because we were the first to unleash that terror that was weaponized in WWII.

However, I don't think there should be war...all of them are chock full of brutality...I had a great uncle and grandpa that fought in the Second World War, and perhaps that lends to a little bias, but man...

We are quite removed from World War 1 at this point. According to Wikipedia:

Of the 60 million European soldiers who were mobilized from 1914–1918, 8 million were killed, 7 million were permanently disabled, and 15 million were seriously injured. Germany lost 15.1% of its active male population, Austria–Hungary lost 17.1%, and France lost 10.5%. About 750,000 German civilians died from starvation caused by the British blockade during the war. By the end of the war, famine had killed approximately 100,000 people in Lebanon. The best estimates of the death toll from the Russian famine of 1921 run from 5 million to 10 million people. By 1922, there were between 4.5 million and 7 million homeless children in Russia as a result of nearly a decade of devastation from World War I, the Russian Civil War, and the subsequent famine of 1920–1922. Numerous anti-Soviet Russians fled the country after the Revolution; by the 1930s the northern Chinese city of Harbin had 100,000 Russians. Thousands more emigrated to France, England and the United States.

Diseases flourished in the chaotic wartime conditions. In 1914 alone, louse-borne epidemic typhus killed 200,000 in Serbia. From 1918 to 1922, Russia had about 25 million infections and 3 million deaths from epidemic typhus. Whereas before World War I, Russia had about 3.5 million cases of malaria, its people suffered more than 13 million cases in 1923. In addition, a major influenza epidemic spread around the world. Overall, the Spanish flu killed at least 50 million people.

[lefty]

Algeria vs France

We kicked some asses

[DeadlyDynasty]

Two WWI films I wanted to mention (for anyone interested) are an old Stanley Kubrick one called "Paths To Glory," with Kirk Douglas and a more recent film called "A Very Long Engagement." The latter is more of a romance-drama, but both films are amazing. They both deal with the issues of desertion and cowardice (and how the men are wrongly convicted of such). I highly recommend them, they are both available to stream on netflix.

[The Gemini Method]

Two WWI films I wanted to mention (for anyone interested) are an old Stanley Kubrick one called "Paths To Glory," with Kirk Douglas and a more recent film called "A Very Long Engagement." The latter is more of a romance-drama, but both films are amazing. They both deal with the issues of desertion and cowardice (and how the men are wrongly convicted of such). I highly recommend them, they are both available to stream on netflix.

I wanted to check out A Very Long Engagement, but I have not gotten around to downloading it or buying it from Amoeba, but that's definitely worth checking out.

To take a modern spin on this discussion...I was conversing with a good friend who served as a Marine in the Iraqi War and he was commenting on how dull time was when he was out there. He was surprised to see all the excitement and 'top news' stories that were coming out in our media after he returned from his 2nd stint and he was just amazed at how much 'action' was portrayed from over there when, for the most part, he would go a week or two before his patrol would have to even threaten to use his weapon and when there were a possibility of seeing combat, he would show up in places like Fallujah and Basra and miss out on the major fighting. He would remark that the movie Jarhead was pretty much the story of his stay in Iraq. On his 3rd tour...he was sent to Afghanistan...that was a different story he would later regale to me.

[lefty]

Two WWI films I wanted to mention (for anyone interested) are an old Stanley Kubrick one called "Paths To Glory," with Kirk Douglas and a more recent film called "A Very Long Engagement." The latter is more of a romance-drama, but both films are amazing. They both deal with the issues of desertion and cowardice (and how the men are wrongly convicted of such). I highly recommend them, they are both available to stream on netflix.

Good call; I watched both of them


Also another good movie is " The Battle of Algiers "

NY Times and Washington Post articles on the movie:

http://www.rialtopictures.com/eyes_x...tle_times.html
http://www.rialtopictures.com/eyes_x...ttle_post.html

[Dex]

[z0sa]

1) WW2
2) Trojan War
3) American Revolution
4) WW1
5) Vietnam
6) Current Afghanistan/Iraqi wars (don't have my "support", but extremely interesting nonetheless)

[RandomGuy]

A kid was visiting his grandfather while home from college at Christmas, and was spending time on the computer on Spurstalk.

His grandpa shakes his head and says:

"That's no way to spend your time, on that bloody computer all day. Why, when I was your age, I went to the Moulin Rouge in Paris, drank all night, ed the dancers, pissed on the barman, and left without paying! Now that's how you live a little, son!"

A week later, grandson is back, looking like he was on the loosing end of a game of chicken with a truck, black eyes, broken arm, and shaking his head.

His grampa could hardly recognize him. "sweet baby jesus and orphans, what the happened to you?"

The kid says: "I did what you said grandpa, I went to the Moulin Rouge in Paris, drank all night, ed the dancers, pissed on the barman, and then they beat the living out of me!"

"Oh my, that's horrible, kid, who did you go with?"

"Just some friends. Why? Who did you go with?"

"The S.S."

[CuckingFunt]

I went with other. In terms of what I like to study, the first response that came to mind was the 1980s culture wars.

[RoddyBukkake]

clearly wwii ... can't top the holocaust

lol the holocaust was 100% Zionist Jew manufactured bull , even the diary of Anne Frank was exposed as a fraud

[baseline bum]

Anyone play Age of Empires 2? They recreated some incredible conquests of Attila the Hun. Great use of technology in this battle:

[The Gemini Method]

War ensemble


Propaganda death ensemble
Burial to be
Corpse rotting through the night
In blood laced misery
Scorched earth the policy
The reason for the siege
The pendulum it shaves the blade
Strafing air blood raid

Infiltration push reserves
Encircle the front lines
Supreme art of strategy
Playing on the minds
Bombard till submission
Take all to their graves
Indication of triumph
The numbers that are dead

Sport the war, war support
The sport is war, total war
Where victory's really massacre
The final swing is not a drill
It's how many people I can kill

Solo 1

Sport the war, war support
The sport is war, total war
When victory's really survival
The final swing is not a drill
It's how many people I can kill

Be dead fiend from above
When darkness falls
Descend onto my sights
Your fallen walls
Spearhead break through the lines
Flank all around
Soldiers of attrition
Forward their ground

Strategy prophetic age
Old in its time
Flowing veins run on through
Deep in the Rhine
Center of the web
All battles scored
What is a war crime
Era forever more
War

Solo 2

Propaganda war ensemble
Burial to be
Bones shining by the night
In blood laced misery
Campaign of elimination
Twisted psychology
When victory is to survive
And death is defeat

Sport the war, war support
The sport is war, total war
When the end is a slaughter
The final swing is not a drill
It's how many people I can kill

[DeadlyDynasty]

I wanted to check out A Very Long Engagement, but I have not gotten around to downloading it or buying it from Amoeba, but that's definitely worth checking out.

To take a modern spin on this discussion...I was conversing with a good friend who served as a Marine in the Iraqi War and he was commenting on how dull time was when he was out there. He was surprised to see all the excitement and 'top news' stories that were coming out in our media after he returned from his 2nd stint and he was just amazed at how much 'action' was portrayed from over there when, for the most part, he would go a week or two before his patrol would have to even threaten to use his weapon and when there were a possibility of seeing combat, he would show up in places like Fallujah and Basra and miss out on the major fighting. He would remark that the movie Jarhead was pretty much the story of his stay in Iraq. On his 3rd tour...he was sent to Afghanistan...that was a different story he would later regale to me.

That's interesting b/c a buddy of mine said the same thing...he's currently finishing his last 6 months in Fort Bragg but did 2 tours in Iraq (I believe, maybe just one), and one in Afghanistan. He said Afghanistan was by far the worst...I found that surprising

[ChumpDumper]

WWI is holding my interest lately because I'm finding there is so much I didn't know about it. So much attention is traditionally given to the trench warfare in Belgium and France, that the "World" aspect of the war is lost. The Military Channel occasionally airs a do entary series called "The First World War" that goes a long way to bringing a much more complete picture of the conflict into view, with attention given to things like the vertical battlefields of the Italian front, the German navy's working to cause chaos in the eastern oceans with no orders from above, the hundreds of thousands of men brought from Europe's colonies to fight in Europe, WWI's own holocaust of the Armenians, etc.

Oh, and Lawrence of Arabia is technically a WWI film, and it does show some of the reasons the middle east is such a cluster today (e.g., Alec Guiness's character goes on to become the king of Iraq, even though few people there even knew who he was).

[DeadlyDynasty]

WWI is holding my interest lately because I'm finding there is so much I didn't know about it. So much attention is traditionally given to the trench warfare in Belgium and France, that the "World" aspect of the war is lost. The Military Channel occasionally airs a do entary series called "The First World War" that goes a long way to bringing a much more complete picture of the conflict into view, with attention given to things like the vertical battlefields of the Italian front, the German navy's working to cause chaos in the eastern oceans with no orders from above, the hundreds of thousands of men brought from Europe's colonies to fight in Europe, WWI's own holocaust of the Armenians, etc.

Oh, and Lawrence of Arabia is technically a WWI film, and it does show some of the reasons the middle east is such a cluster today (e.g., Alec Guiness's character goes on to become the king of Iraq).

Very true, it encompasses much more than we were ever taught in schools. Lawrence of Arabia is of course a great film, but only one of a few that concentrates on the battles in the desert and the balkans against the (then) Ottoman Empire. The Battle of Gallipoli (great movie about it, with a very young Mel Gibson) also deals with the war in the Dardanelles. Concentrates on the ANZAC troops--all the way from Australia and New Zealand--and their impact in the war. World War indeed. Also found it interesting that the architect of the tragically flawed Gallipoli Campaign was none other than Winston Churchill.

Another good WWI area to look into--although a popular one--is the first dogfights with the Red Baron. Zeppelins were used a lot as well.

[SA DAVE]

I'd have to go with the Crusades. So many interesting story lines: from monarchies, alliances, to conquering the Levant, to retreating from the Levant, to the emergence of a stable Muslim alliance in the mid east [Anatolia, Ottomans, Seljuk Turks].

From 1095 to 1291, it must have been a tough time being a land owning religious male- i.e. Knight in the Holy Land.

..how could that be left off of the poll?

[Mixability]

I'm kinda fond of WWII, since it's crazy to think if my Grandfather didn't make it through the of Omaha Beach, I wouldn't be typing this right now...

[DeadlyDynasty]

I'd have to go with the Crusades. So many interesting story lines: from monarchies, alliances, to conquering the Levant, to retreating from the Levant, to the emergence of a stable Muslim alliance in the mid east [Anatolia, Ottomans, Seljuk Turks].

From 1095 to 1291, it must have been a tough time being a land owning religious male- i.e. Knight in the Holy Land.

..how could that be left off of the poll?

Forgive me father, for I have sinned.

I would need another 25 poll options to appease everyone...

[hater]

WWII is the most epic of them all.

Good vs. Evil. concentration camps. France s their pants. Introduction of personal machine guns, hand grenades, high caliber sniper rifles. Fight in land, sea, air and underwater. A great villain in Hitler, swastikas, nazi helmets. It all culminates in an atomic bomb dropped in a civilian area. Krout this, jap that. I can go on and on and on. WWII is the baddest war of them all. it's not even close

[SA DAVE]

Forgive me father, for I have sinned.

For that my child, 25 lashes with wet celery

[The Gemini Method]

When you get in your Mercedes-Benz or BMW...Toyota and Honda...you are supporting the Axis powers@#$@##@@!!~!!

[DeadlyDynasty]

WWII is the most epic of them all.

Good vs. Evil. concentration camps. France s their pants. Introduction of personal machine guns, hand grenades, high caliber sniper rifles. Fight in land, sea, air and underwater. A great villain in Hitler, swastikas, nazi helmets. It all culminates in an atomic bomb dropped in a civilian area. Krout this, jap that. I can go on and on and on. WWII is the baddest war of them all. it's not even close

WWII definitely had its share of arch-villains and leaders:

FDR
Churchill
Stalin
Hitler
Hirohito
Mussolini