House Dems reject Obama tax cuts...

[Crookshanks]

I've pretty much come around to the feeling that I hope everyone's taxes go up. Not just the top tax bracket. Let this expire for everyone. If our country really learned anything in this financial crisis lets prove it. If we really want expensive government programs - no matter how well merited we think they are - we should all start to pay for them.

Short term economy be damned, this is about something bigger.

That being said I'm sure the Dems will cave soon.

Well Manny - the problem with that is the almost 50% who don't pay ANY Federal Income Tax. They're the ones getting the benefit of many of those expensive government programs, but they don't pay anything towards funding them. So they could care less if everyone else's taxes went up. The people most hurt will be those in the lowest tax bracket. They will go from 10% to 15% - and that will really hurt those lower middle class families.

[TeyshaBlue]

I've pretty much come around to the feeling that I hope everyone's taxes go up. Not just the top tax bracket. Let this expire for everyone. If our country really learned anything in this financial crisis lets prove it. If we really want expensive government programs - no matter how well merited we think they are - we should all start to pay for them.

Short term economy be damned, this is about something bigger.

That being said I'm sure the Dems will cave soon.

Pretty much my stand as well. We've been budgeting short term for 30 years...bout time to get outta that rut.

[MannyIsGod]

I'm amazed Manny. Before you know it you are going to be a conservative.

As I have said repeatedly, EVERYONE needs to pay SOME taxes so they have skin in the game.

When half the population doesn't pay ANY taxes in a Democracy then overspending and then overtaxing the other half is inevitable.

Everyone does pay taxes. God damn. This bull again?

[TeyshaBlue]

Well Manny - the problem with that is the almost 50% who don't pay ANY Federal Income Tax. They're the ones getting the benefit of many of those expensive government programs, but they don't pay anything towards funding them. So they could care less if everyone else's taxes went up. The people most hurt will be those in the lowest tax bracket. They will go from 10% to 15% - and that will really hurt those lower middle class families.

Oversimplification aside, some of this could be addressed by at least ins uting a zero net return policy. I know of one particular case where more money was received in refunds than paid in taxes...and I'm pretty sure it's a bit more common than we'd like to think.

All that said, the impact to the deficit is about zilch either way. But, the sustainability model/mindset needs to be all inclusive....and we've got to start sometime soon.

[MannyIsGod]

Well Manny - the problem with that is the almost 50% who don't pay ANY Federal Income Tax. They're the ones getting the benefit of many of those expensive government programs, but they don't pay anything towards funding them. So they could care less if everyone else's taxes went up. The people most hurt will be those in the lowest tax bracket. They will go from 10% to 15% - and that will really hurt those lower middle class families.

Oh Jesus Christ. Between this and the climate change threads I don't know why I"m not studying for my finals right now.

[TeyshaBlue]

Oh Jesus Christ. Between this and the climate change threads I don't know why I"m not studying for my finals right now.

Studying is overrated.

[Wild Cobra]

"debt driven economy is toxic in the long run"

that doesn't seem to bother you Repugs when dubya was tripling the deficit with bogus wars and tax cuts.

what's the cause of the debt now and for next 10 years?



http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3036

Private sector debt is the financial sector's lifeblood, aka interest. Debt is how capitalists control the country, and foreclose on real assets.

I'm getting tired of seeing that same stupid chart that had no factual relevance. How many times have you linked it now?

[Wild Cobra]

Letting the law expire wouldn't be a tax hike but renewing it would be a tax cut?

Liberal relativity...

[boutons_deux]

here's a goodie:

Attacks On Government Workers in Tax Deal

Yves Smith and Reuters blogger James Pethokoukis report that the billionaires-for-benefits compromise effectively ends the Build America Bonds program. That’s the program which makes it easier for states to borrow money to cover their budget shortfalls—estimated at $140 billion just next year.

Who are the victims when the states can’t borrow? Bill Fletcher reminded us this week of the attacks on public employees’ pay. Public employee retirement benefits will probably be the first to go — estimated at $750 billion to more than $3 trillion.

Pethokoukis further notes that legislation amending bankruptcy law is in the works, possibly permitting states to declare bankruptcy. And if they declare bankruptcy, just like GM, workers’ benefits are the first thing on the chopping block.

http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/...aign=alternet#

[CosmicCowboy]

here's a goodie:

Attacks On Government Workers in Tax Deal

Yves Smith and Reuters blogger James Pethokoukis report that the billionaires-for-benefits compromise effectively ends the Build America Bonds program. That’s the program which makes it easier for states to borrow money to cover their budget shortfalls—estimated at $140 billion just next year.

Who are the victims when the states can’t borrow? Bill Fletcher reminded us this week of the attacks on public employees’ pay. Public employee retirement benefits will probably be the first to go — estimated at $750 billion to more than $3 trillion.

Pethokoukis further notes that legislation amending bankruptcy law is in the works, possibly permitting states to declare bankruptcy. And if they declare bankruptcy, just like GM, workers’ benefits are the first thing on the chopping block.

http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/...aign=alternet#

Government employees benefits are outrageous anyway...

[boutons_deux]

contracts are contracts.

I guess they are gonna get raped the way the banks are raping centuries of property law contracts.

Volunteer to annul all of your contracts

[CosmicCowboy]

Most of the rewrites involve starting with new hires. They are breaking the ridiculous chain of obscenely generous defined benefit plans and going to conventional 401K's for new hires.