LOL, Adrian Gonzalez is a better 1b then Ryan Howard, and also a better hitter. So is Joey Votto.
Howard is a homerun or bust player. He sucked ass in the last 2 rounds the Phillies got eliminated in. If he isn't hitting homeruns, he is an overrated piece of .
He hits for pretty good average for a slugging first baseman. He that down year in 2008 were he hit .251. Last year he hit for .276 I believe. I would take that production any day of the week and so would the Redsox.
I'm not saying there not. Whats your point?
I give you Votto...but get that gonzalez outta here. Better fielder sure, but not a better hitter.
when he goes atleast 45 HR (with a high of 58) and 140 RBI in 4 straight years let me know.
To make a case for Gonzalez he does hit for a slightly better average and better OPS than Howard, but yeah I agree with your assessment.
I'm a little surprised Lee didn't take the money and go to New York. Looks like he made the best decision for himself and his family, so that's all good.
Not sure that Texas is really that attractive as a destination for free agents, so I'm not surprised Lee spurned them.
Over the past three years, Gonzalez has a better OBP and a better OPS, and he plays in perhaps the worst hitters park in the majors. Plus Gonzalez plays much better defense.
Not sure why Howard is even in this conversation. Adrian has performed better recently in the offensive stats that matter while playing half of his games in San Diego. And defensively it's not even close.
Howard is a nice player, but he's not a top-five first baseman. Gonzalez is.
Heck, if you look at his offensive numbers, you'll see that Howard probably wasn't one of the top five first baseman in the National League last year. And that doesn't even factor in defense.
Gonzalez played at Petco, Howard played in Citizen bank ballpark. Petco is a Pitchers ball park, Citizen bank ballpark is a hitters park. And get the RBI out of here. Put Rollins, Victorino, and Utely infront of gonzalez and he gives you the same or more RBI's then howard.
This isn't the NBA. Great pitching staff's like that don't fail unless they are hurt.
That has to be the most idiotic statements I have heard in a long long time.
Lets see this not in pacific order.
1). Votto
2). Gonzales (I don't agree he's better than Howard, but I will give him to you for argument sake)
3). Mark Teixeira
4). Prince Fielder
5). Justin Morneau
6). Kornorko
Kevin Youkilis (moving the 3rd base)
I would maybe give you Votto and Morneau, but that's the only first baseman I would take or Howard.
The Rangers, though, weren't willing to go seven years guaranteed for Lee, who would have been 39 by the time that contract expired. Greenberg said this was not a case of a free-agent pitcher avoiding the Rangers because of hitter-friendly Rangers Ballpark in Arlington.
"In this instance, it was simply a matter of us saying yes," Greenberg said. "But it would have been us saying yes on terms we weren't comfortable with. This wasn't about Cliff not coming to Texas. He was willing to remain a Ranger, but it was on terms we felt went beyond the aggressive parameters we were operating under. Had we been willing to go beyond the parameters we were willing to go, he'd be here. We needed to act aggressively, but responsibly and we did so."
Texas will be compensated with two draft choices next summer since Lee is signing with another team after being offered salary arbitration.
"I'm just excited that the Rangers gave everything they had to try and make it happen," Rangers outfielder Josh Hamilton said. "I think one of the factors in his decision was knowing the staff that he would be going to and joining in, and how good and dominant they possibly could be. ... We hate to lose him, but I think we'll be all right."
so he would have went to texas for 7 years guaranteed but would go to the phillies for less
it was always about the money for lee
LEE
more money per year was phillies offer then any of the deals on the table
I think you forgot a guy named Albert Pujols, he's the best player in the game right now. Also, what about Miguel Cabrera??, i heard he's a pretty good first baseman too.
My list would go
1. Albert Pujols
2. Miguel Cabrera
3. Joey Votto/Adrian Gonzalez
4. Adrian Gonzalez/Joey Votto
5. Ryan Howard
Howard cant hit lefties, in a game, where the game is on the line, all you need to do is bring a lefty reliver to get him out, Adrian Gonzalez and Joey Votto are lefties and could hit lefties good, unlike Ryan Howard. And also the reason i say Adrian is better then howard is because Howard has protection in the line up, where Adrian doesnt, every team pitches around Gonzalez, where every team needs to pitch to Howard because he has Utley infront of him and he had Werth and Ibanez behind him, and Adrian had scrubs.
Last edited by RedsLakers24; 12-15-2010 at 04:52 AM.
^ it's not all about offense. Pujols is a terrible fielder.
,
,
LOL, Puljols already has 2 gold gloves, i know gold gloves dont mean much since Jeter has won the last two years, but Pujols is one of the better fielding first basemans. A lot of baseball fans use Fielding Bible awards to see who are the real defensive players, and Pujols has won it almost every year except this year.
http://www.billjamesonline.net/field...-votetally.asp
You are exactly right sir, I did forget Miguel and Cabrera the two best first baseman in the game. I think I forgot Miguel because I still think of him as a Marlin playing 3rd for some reason and Albert, I don't know why I forgot him, but yeah your right my mistake.
Howard's rank among first baseman in the past three years:
OBP - 2010 (13th), 2009 (14th), 2008 (13th)
OPS - 2010 (10th), 2009 (9th), 2008 (6th)
Unless you're going to argue that Ryan Howard is one of a defensive first baseman, which I think is going to pretty hard to do, I don't think you have much of a case here.
I understand that you would take only a couple of other first baseman ahead of Ryan Howard, I just have no idea why. He's clearly not as good as many of the others offensively, and I don't think you can claim that he plays stellar defense.
The numbers don't lie, and he's compiled them playing in a pretty good hitter's park. So let's hear your case: given that he isn't a top-five first baseman offensively, as the numbers bear out, why do you think he's so good?
Last edited by Brodels; 12-15-2010 at 11:28 PM.
Wins above replacement, First Basemen, 2008-2010 (Fangraphs)
Albert Pujols 25.3
Mark Teixeira 16.2
Joey Votto 16.1
Kevin Youkilis 15.7
Adrian Gonzalez 15.6
Miguel Cabrera 14.7
Prince Fielder 13.6
Lance Berkman 13
Justin Morneau 12.6
Derrek Lee 10.5
Ryan Howard 9.9
Fangraph Values, First Basemen, 2008-2010
Albert Pujols $109.30
Mark Teixeira $70.10
Joey Votto $69.50
Kevin Youkilis $68.60
Adrian Gonzalez $67.60
Miguel Cabrera $63.60
Prince Fielder $59.00
Lance Berkman $56.60
Justin Morneau $55.30
Derrek Lee $45.40
Ryan Howard $43.10
shiiiit man the Phils have a godly rotation and some strong bats. I could see them winning multiple championships in the future.
they need more bats
Well ESPN sure has been talking about it a lot....
Otherwises, the Phillies are going to be a powerful force next season.
Actually my brother lived in New York and Philadelphia, and while he hated New York, he loved Philly. Said New York is filled with bags, but the people in Philly are pretty cool.What a face Lee is....Rangers offered more and he slapped them in the face. Who the would want to live in that hole Philadelphia??? What a tool....good riddance dummy.
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