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  1. #51
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Fine. Books, buildings, and teachers can't cost as much as we're being charged in taxes.

    How do I know. Because the private school to which I send my children are able to educate them -- and have a 99% graduation rate -- with books, teachers, and classrooms and for a of a lot less than the public school, per student, costs. There is a principal and an assistant principal - they share a secretary. Everyone else teaches...oh wait, the assistant principal teaches too.
    Man, see this orange is soooo much juicier than this apple.

    You can even see how much oranger it is. That apple is all red and stuff, but the orange I ate was definitely NOT red.



    Comparing cost structures at small, private schools, and large public schools is, at best, not really useful, and at worst, actively disleading.

    Were you trying to be purposefully misleading, or do you not really have any real data on the difference and don't know any better?

  2. #52
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    Man, see this orange is soooo much juicier than this apple.

    You can even see how much oranger it is. That apple is all red and stuff, but the orange I ate was definitely NOT red.



    Comparing cost structures at small, private schools, and large public schools is, at best, not really useful, and at worst, actively disleading.

    Were you trying to be purposefully misleading, or do you not really have any real data on the difference and don't know any better?
    There is no verifiable cause/effect between dollars spent on education and better educated students.

  3. #53
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    There is no verifiable cause/effect between dollars spent on education and better educated students.
    Then the rich shouldn't have been so against the Robin Hood plan.

  4. #54
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    Then the rich shouldn't have been so against the Robin Hood plan.
    Pretty broad generalization there Chump.

    And you know this how?

  5. #55
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Pretty broad generalization there Chump.

    And you know this how?
    Um, because they were against it.

    That was fairly well do ented.

    I'm sure not all of them -- I can reword it to say "the rich who were against the Robin Hood plan" if it helps.

  6. #56
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    Um, because they were against it.

    That was fairly well do ented.

    I'm sure not all of them -- I can reword it to say "the rich who were against the Robin Hood plan" if it helps.
    It's pretty much common sense to resist a plan that takes your taxes generated at the local level (previously managed and dispersed at the local level) and sends them off to a distant "agency" to redistribute the funds as they see fit.

    There are plenty of valid examples at the State and Federal level to justify this mis-trust.

  7. #57
    Live by what you Speak. DarkReign's Avatar
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    Complain all you like, at least your state's legislature has the guts to actually put together a balanced budget.

    Michigan's legislature cant even start a conversation about it.

  8. #58
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    It's pretty much common sense to resist a plan that takes your taxes generated at the local level (previously managed and dispersed at the local level) and sends them off to a distant "agency" to redistribute the funds as they see fit.

    There are plenty of valid examples at the State and Federal level to justify this mis-trust.
    But since it's spent on education, it doesn't actually matter how it is spent at all according to you. It has no effect whatsoever.

  9. #59
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    Um, because they were against it.

    That was fairly well do ented.

    I'm sure not all of them -- I can reword it to say "the rich who were against the Robin Hood plan" if it helps.
    Also, I thought you were too smart to play that "rich envy" game like Boutons and Parker.

    The rich didn't give a because their kids were usually in private school.

    It was the lower middle class and middle class parents who saved and struggled to move from ty inner city schools (with ty kids born to ty parents) and paid the higher property costs/taxes to move their kids to the "good" school districts that really felt betrayed by Robin Hood.

  10. #60
    Scrumtrulescent
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    Complain all you like, at least your state's legislature has the guts to actually put together a balanced budget.

    Michigan's legislature cant even start a conversation about it.
    It's cons utionally required, so I wouldn't exactly call it guts on behalf of our legislators.

  11. #61
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Also, I thought you were too smart to play that "rich envy" game like Boutons and Parker.

    The rich didn't give a because their kids were in private school.

    It was the lower middle class and middle class parents who saved and struggled to move from ty inner city schools (with ty kids born to ty parents) and paid the higher property costs/taxes to move their kids to the "good" school districts that really felt betrayed by Robin Hood.
    Ok, let's say it's lower and middle class people only -- why, then?

    You said it makes no difference what is spent, so there can be no betrayal when there is less spent.

  12. #62
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    I know CC is too dumb not to play the elitist "I-got-mine-so- the poor".

  13. #63
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    But since it's spent on education, it doesn't actually matter how it is spent at all according to you. It has no effect whatsoever.
    Damn Chump...did you take a stupid pill today?

    The primary cause/effect element of student success is parental involvement.

    Do you REALLY wan't to argue that dollars spent per student is more important?

  14. #64
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Damn Chump...did you take a stupid pill today?

    The primary cause/effect element of student success is parental involvement.

    Do you REALLY wan't to argue that dollars spent per student is more important?
    You REALLY want to argue that the amount of money spent doesn't matter at all.

    This is your argument.

    If it doesn't matter at all, then no one should be upset about Robin Hood and just play up parental involvement.

    And the rich have to pay property taxes too, so saying they didn't care at all is probably disingenuous.

  15. #65
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    Fact:

    A 2000 sf house on the west side of SA in the SAISD sells for a lot less (and consequently pays lower taxes) than a 2000 sf house in Stone Oak and NEISD.

    Those parents that scrimped and saved (and paid more taxes) to move to the "good" school districts felt betrayed when the taxes they paid to educate their kids were taken from them and sent somewhere else.

  16. #66
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    And yeah, I pay about $15,000 in school taxes every year and have no kids in school.

  17. #67
    Cogito Ergo Sum LnGrrrR's Avatar
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    CG: Texans get their first look at what type of cuts can be expected to balance the state budget. Not a very pretty picture.

    **************

    A sobering reality settled over the Texas Capitol late Tuesday as the state's budget challenge emerged in black and white.

    The multivolume Legislative Budget Board publication provides the first real picture of what it will take for Texas to dig itself out of a deep budget hole without raising taxes or using the $9.4 billion rainy day fund.

    It is apparent that very little escaped the knife in this first draft of the budget, including previously untouched public school funding and money for higher education and Medicaid reimbursements.

    The release of the do ents had been pushed into the night to avoid overshadowing the day's inauguration of Gov. Rick Perry and Lt. Gov. David Dewhurst. The information was delivered in hard-copy form to legislators, many of whom were out enjoying the inaugural festivities, and will be posted on the budget board's website this morning.

    Today, House Appropriations Chairman Jim Pitts, R-Waxahachie, will take questions from members on the House floor, and more details will emerge as legislative staffers, advocates, lobbyists and others dig into the details.

    Pitts set out to balance the budget with the $72 billion in taxes and fees that will be available for the 2012-13, two-year budget. That amount is $15 billion less than the current budget and $27 billion less than what agencies say they need to continue the current level of services.

    Public education

    Direct state aid to school districts, which has been untouched in previous rounds of cuts, was trimmed by $953 million in the proposed budget.

    But school districts will also forgo $9.8 billion owed to them under current school finance laws, such as money to cover growth in student enrollment.

    Grants for teacher incentive pay, pre-kindergarten and classroom technology were also eliminated.

    Higher education

    Student financial aid, including the main Texas Grants program, and funding for public universities would take substantial hits.

    Financial aid was slashed by half, closing off assistance for new students.

    Governor's office

    Perry's largest economic development fund remains largely unchanged, but the governor's programs that promote film production in Texas and foster research and development of new technologies were hammered in this first draft of the budget. The Emerging Technology Fund was cut 85 percent.

    Criminal justice

    In public safety and corrections programs, the budget report recommends shutting down a unit in Sugar Land, three Texas Youth Commission lockups and 2,000 private prison beds, a move that could close at least two additional lockups. About 1,562 prison jobs were also chopped.

    Probation programs would see funding cut by 20 percent, parole supervision would be cut by almost 9 percent, and the agency's construction and maintenance funding could be cut by 83 percent, along with 90 jobs. The Victims Services Division would be eliminated.

    Health care, other cuts

    Medicaid reimbursement rates for doctors, nursing homes and other health care providers were whacked by 10 percent.

    The proposal also includes closing at least one of Texas' state supported living centers, facilities that serve Texans with mental disabilities.

    Overall, about 9,600 state positions would be eliminated from the payroll.

    The state will also drop its contribution to the pension systems for teachers and state workers to 6 percent, the minimum allowed by the state cons ution.

    Some small en ies, such as the State Law Library, were eliminated. Others, including the Historical Commission, are still standing but had much of their funding cut.

    Earlier Tuesday, a group of conservative legislators laid out suggestions for reducing spending by $18 billion withouttouching transportation, public safety or criminal justice.

    Representatives of the Texas Conservative Coalition Research Ins ute said education bore the brunt of the cuts - $12 billion - because federal health care laws prevent states from reducing eligibility for people covered through Medicaid and the Children's Health Insurance Program.

    Neither Pitts nor his counterpart in the Senate, Steve Ogden, was involved in developing the conservatives' budget blueprint.

    But the recommendation could provide a good indication of the will of the two chambers given the conservative bent of the Texas Legislature.

    http://www.statesman.com/news/texas-...s-1194464.html
    I thought that Texas was a model for conservatives on how to run a state budget? (As opposed to say, California.)

    Amazing to see calls for a cut in prison jobs, especially in Texas.

  18. #68
    A neverending cycle Trainwreck2100's Avatar
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    I thought that Texas was a model for conservatives on how to run a state budget? (As opposed to say, California.)

    Amazing to see calls for a cut in prison jobs, especially in Texas.
    its in the state cons ution that you can't have a budget plan in the red

  19. #69
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Fact:

    A 2000 sf house on the west side of SA in the SAISD sells for a lot less (and consequently pays lower taxes) than a 2000 sf house in Stone Oak and NEISD.

    Those parents that scrimped and saved (and paid more taxes) to move to the "good" school districts felt betrayed when the taxes they paid to educate their kids were taken from them and sent somewhere else.
    Fact:

    You said the amount of money spent on education doesn't matter.

    So according to you, they shouldn't feel betrayed.

  20. #70
    Cogito Ergo Sum LnGrrrR's Avatar
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    Damn Chump...did you take a stupid pill today?

    The primary cause/effect element of student success is parental involvement.

    Do you REALLY wan't to argue that dollars spent per student is more important?
    IIRC, the primary linked factor dealing with a child's success in school is wealth of the parents, not their involvement. (I read it in a study somewhere, I'll try to find it in a bit.)

  21. #71
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    "wealth of the parents"

    exactly. Social upward mobility is greatly decreased, the US has become essentially stratified, born/raised poor, you stay poor. born/raised rich, you stay rich.

    Then add in all the 3rd and 4th quintile middle class people who are trending downward.

    America is so ed, compared to America's "promise", a myth?, and there's nothing anybody can do about it.

  22. #72
    Scrumtrulescent
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    Amazing to see calls for a cut in prison jobs, especially in Texas.
    No doubt. My hope is that the economic realities force enough legislators to rethink the time and money being spent on locking up nonviolent drug offenders.

  23. #73
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    No doubt. My hope is that the economic realities force enough legislators to rethink the time and money being spent on locking up nonviolent drug offenders.
    Amen to that.

  24. #74
    Cogito Ergo Sum LnGrrrR's Avatar
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    its in the state cons ution that you can't have a budget plan in the red
    I know that, but the way conservatives were railing on Massachusetts and California and praising Texas, you'd think that Texas wouldn't need budget cuts. After all, they have less regulations than those states, and less regulations = more business = more money, right?

  25. #75
    Cogito Ergo Sum LnGrrrR's Avatar
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    No doubt. My hope is that the economic realities force enough legislators to rethink the time and money being spent on locking up nonviolent drug offenders.
    I'm not too surprised that later in the article there was an alternate plan with no cuts to the prison jobs. Like I said, it's Texas.

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