Amare's final block

[Rick Von Braun]

Amare met Tim at the top and got a hand on the ball and his hand was pushed back over the cylinder.

No part of what he did was goaltending.

No where in the rules does it say you can't challenge a dunk. Only if the ball is in contact with the rim when you touch it, you use the rim for assistance, or a hand comes up through the cylinder is this a violation.

The bold statements are crucial. Amare can challenge the dunk as long as his hands do not go over the cylinder. If his hands go over the cylinder, and/or touch the rim, it is an automatic goaltender. It is irrelevant if his hands were pushed back by the dunk, he can only challenge (block) the dunk if his hands are not touching the rim and/or they are not on top of the cylinder. That is the rule.

[GSH]

Amare met Tim at the top and got a hand on the ball and his hand was pushed back over the cylinder.

No part of what he did was goaltending.

No where in the rules does it say you can't challenge a dunk. Only if the ball is in contact with the rim when you touch it, you use the rim for assistance, or a hand comes up through the cylinder is this a violation.

All right... I'll drop this one after this post. I know you think what you said sounds logical, but it's wrong. First of all, Amare's arm was in contact with the rim, but that's another issue. Even if it happened the way you say, there is nothing in the rule that says anything about the defensive player's arm getting pushed over the cylinder. The defensive player was in contact with both the ball and the cylinder (both goaltending violations) while the ball was in the cylinder. There is no question that the ball would have gone in (the rule only says it has to have a chance to go in) had Stoudamire not touched it at that point. It's a goaltend.

You may not think it's fair. And you may want to give Amare credit for such an athletic play - , I want to give him credit for such an athletic play. But the rule says it's a goaltend. Period. The ref has an obligation to call the goaltend. Some calls are less black-and-white. This particular one is really clear cut. It's automatic.

It doesn't matter. The Spurs lost the game, fair and square. I've said that all along. The ruling on that play was wrong. But it doesn't matter... the game is over.

One point though... the Spurs can't un-lose the game. You have the opportunity to get over being ignorant. Take the time to do your homework. Read the rules before you run your mouth. (Or your keyboard.)

[Rick Von Braun]

Amare made contact BEFORE it was over the cylinder. I've seen the replay 10 times. That makes it legal.

Nope, you are wrong there. If a player initiates contact before it was over the cylinder, that doesn't mean the player can cover the basket to prevent the 2pts. That does not make it legal.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

GSH,

You should take a step back and use your brain.

Again, Tim Duncan did the same thing to Kenyon Martin in round 1, and Jerome James in round 2..

I don't see you calling for a goaltend on Tim on those plays. Blocking dunks at the rim happens all the time in the league. As much as I disagree with some of the officiating, that was a clean block.

[FustinJelux]

Hahah, actually you guys, GSH is right. I misread the exception. The exception actually just says the offensive player is allowed to dunk it. When it says "his" hand I thought it was talking about the DEFENSIVE player's hand, when it is actually talking about the offensive player's hand.

Goaltending on Amare.

[rm13]

All right... I'll drop this one after this post. I know you think what you said sounds logical, but it's wrong. First of all, Amare's arm was in contact with the rim, but that's another issue. Even if it happened the way you say, there is nothing in the rule that says anything about the defensive player's arm getting pushed over the cylinder. The defensive player was in contact with both the ball and the cylinder (both goaltending violations) while the ball was in the cylinder. There is no question that the ball would have gone in (the rule only says it has to have a chance to go in) had Stoudamire not touched it at that point. It's a goaltend.

You may not think it's fair. And you may want to give Amare credit for such an athletic play - , I want to give him credit for such an athletic play. But the rule says it's a goaltend. Period. The ref has an obligation to call the goaltend. Some calls are less black-and-white. This particular one is really clear cut. It's automatic.

Please reply once more because you didnt earlier to me. THe big problem with you reasoning is that in this rule it states
"EXCEPTION: If a player near his own basket has his hand legally in contact with the ball, it is not a violation if his contact with the ball continues after the ball enters the cylinder, or if, in such action, he touches the basket."

Your OWN basket is the basket of the DEFENSIVE team-which on that TD atempt dunk was the Suns.

Get it now?

[Catharsis]

Nope, you are wrong there. If a player initiates contact before it was over the cylinder, that doesn't mean the player can cover the basket to prevent the 2pts. That does not make it legal.

Yes it does. I am 100% right and this is not the first time this has happened and not the first time it was called correctly.

It's over, good non-call, nice block.

[GSH]

Please reply once more because you didnt earlier to me. THe big problem with you reasoning is that in this rule it states
"EXCEPTION: If a player near his own basket has his hand legally in contact with the ball, it is not a violation if his contact with the ball continues after the ball enters the cylinder, or if, in such action, he touches the basket."

Your OWN basket is the basket of the DEFENSIVE team-which on that TD atempt dunk was the Suns.

Get it now?

Could you... could anyone... really be that freaking ignorant? I'm sorry. But in any rational world, that kind of comment would be grounds to have you neutered before you had a chance to breed. That kind of ignorance has to be something so fundamental that you could pass it on genetically.

[SirChaz]

The bold statements are crucial. Amare can challenge the dunk as long as his hands do not go over the cylinder. If his hands go over the cylinder, and/or touch the rim, it is an automatic goaltender. It is irrelevant if his hands were pushed back by the dunk, he can only challenge (block) the dunk if his hands are not touching the rim and/or they are not on top of the cylinder. That is the rule.

First of all, Amare made contact before the ball was over the cylinder.

Even so if a player is going for a dunk and they have their hand on the ball over the cylinder a defensive player can knock the ball away(out of the players hand).
This is common in the NBA and it is not a goaltend no matter how much you wish it were.

Sorry guys you are wrong. Maybe we just agree to disagree.

[Catharsis]

Please reply once more because you didnt earlier to me. THe big problem with you reasoning is that in this rule it states
"EXCEPTION: If a player near his own basket has his hand legally in contact with the ball, it is not a violation if his contact with the ball continues after the ball enters the cylinder, or if, in such action, he touches the basket."

Your OWN basket is the basket of the DEFENSIVE team-which on that TD atempt dunk was the Suns.

Get it now?

I get it. Doubt others will.

[GSH]

Please reply once more because you didnt earlier to me. THe big problem with you reasoning is that in this rule it states
"EXCEPTION: If a player near his own basket has his hand legally in contact with the ball, it is not a violation if his contact with the ball continues after the ball enters the cylinder, or if, in such action, he touches the basket."

Your OWN basket is the basket of the DEFENSIVE team-which on that TD atempt dunk was the Suns.

Get it now?

RULE NO. 4-DEFINITIONS


Section I-Basket/Backboard
a. A team's basket consists of the basket ring and net through which its players try to shoot the ball.

How could you be a basketball fan and make a statement like that? ... how could you make it to adulthood and make a statement like that?

[rm13]

Could you... could anyone... really be that freaking ignorant? I'm sorry. But in any rational world, that kind of comment would be grounds to have you neutered before you had a chance to breed. That kind of ignorance has to be something so fundamental that you could pass it on genetically.

Maybe you should be neutered?
Read this:
PENALTY: If the violation is at the opponent's basket, the offended team is awarded two points,

If the violation is at a team's own basket, no points can be scored and the ball is awarded to the offended team at the free throw line extended on either sideline. If there is a violation by both teams, play shall be resumed by a jump ball between any two opponents at the center circle.

When goaltending occurs on the other teams basket you get two points-not when you score two point on your own basket.

Ready to be neutered?

[FustinJelux]

This argument could be settled if we could find out which basket is "his own basket." Is his own basket the basket he shoots into, or the basket the other team shoots into?

[Catharsis]

Could you... could anyone... really be that freaking ignorant? I'm sorry. But in any rational world, that kind of comment would be grounds to have you neutered before you had a chance to breed. That kind of ignorance has to be something so fundamental that you could pass it on genetically.

Here's a link to the rule AND the exception--in case you think he's making it up.

http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_11...av=ArticleList

[Catharsis]

This argument could be settled if we could find out which basket is "his own basket." Is his own basket the basket he shoots into, or the basket the other team shoots into?

A defender guards HIS own basket. You don't guard your opponent's basket. The game of basketball was created where players try to score on the OTHER team's basket. Hence the basket belongs to the defender, not the scorer.

[FustinJelux]

Oh, I'm late. GSH is still right guys. That rule doesn't say it's OK to do what Amare did. It just says that it is not offensive goaltending if a player dunks. It is saying it's OK for an offensive player to continue holding the ball and touch the rim after he puts it over the cyldiner (in other words, it is OK for a player to dunk).

[GSH]

Maybe you should be neutered?
Read this:
PENALTY: If the violation is at the opponent's basket, the offended team is awarded two points,

If the violation is at a team's own basket, no points can be scored and the ball is awarded to the offended team at the free throw line extended on either sideline. If there is a violation by both teams, play shall be resumed by a jump ball between any two opponents at the center circle.

When goaltending occurs on the other teams basket you get two points-not when you score two point on your own basket.

Ready to be neutered?

Damn you are a dip ! A feisty dip , but a dip just the same.

Yes... if you commit goaltending at the opponent's basket, you were playing defense. The team that shot the ball is awarded points, just as if they had made the basket. If you commit goaltending at your own basket, you were on offense. You don't get credit for the bucket, even though it went in.

And for the record, I traced your IP address. You're posting under two different names from the same address. The only way you could get someone to agree with you is to do it yourself.

Stupid.

[GSH]

A defender guards HIS own basket. You don't guard your opponent's basket. The game of basketball was created where players try to score on the OTHER team's basket. Hence the basket belongs to the defender, not the scorer.

http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_4....av=ArticleList

Okay, you win the prize. Of all the stupid people who have made stupid posts, you just won the prize of Ultimate Idiot. That's quite an accomplishment. A lot of people have tried hard to win that prize. It's got to be a God-given talent.

Over...BuhBye.

[polandprzem]

Damn - ball in the cylinder - you can't touch it!

But it must be in the cylinder before the defender blocks it.

That was always the rule ,and as I remember when Chicago made an allyoop and Caffey was blocked in the cylinder it was goaltending.


A yeh- and I havent seen the game yet

[Kori Ellis]

You score in your own basket. You defend your opponent's basket.

As for the block, I don't think it was in the cylinder or above the cylinder when Amare blocked it. I'd have to go look at the replay a few times to check, but who cares.

The Spurs lost because they shot sub .500 from the freethrow line and let the Suns have a hey-day of a third quarter.

On to game five.

[rm13]

Damn you are a dip ! A feisty dip , but a dip just the same.

Yes... if you commit goaltending at the opponent's basket, you were playing defense. The team that shot the ball is awarded points, just as if they had made the basket. If you commit goaltending at your own basket, you were on offense. You don't get credit for the bucket, even though it went in.

And for the record, I traced your IP address. You're posting under two different names from the same address. The only way you could get someone to agree with you is to do it yourself.

Stupid.

I think your right actually-I reread it and am still pretty confused...the offended team doesnt say which team is it. I have always known as your basket being the one you defended-so sorry for making a mistake. I hanvt seen the replay so I cant actually watch it for myself-but the announcers didnt say anything of the sort about it being goaltending and they are usually pretty good about that...

[Catharsis]

http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_4....av=ArticleList

Okay, you win the prize. Of all the stupid people who have made stupid posts, you just won the prize of Ultimate Idiot. That's quite an accomplishment. A lot of people have tried hard to win that prize. It's got to be a God-given talent.

Over...BuhBye.

Ah, you can't defend you position so you resort to like this. Nice.

How is this SO hard to understand?

Section I-A Player Shall Not:
a. Touch the ball or the basket ring when the ball is using the basket ring as its lower base.
EXCEPTION: If a player near his own basket has his hand legally in contact with the ball, it is not a violation if his contact with the ball continues after the ball enters the cylinder, or if, in such action, he touches the basket.

It doesn't matter if you're the offensive player or the defensive player. Since, on a block, possession is not held by the offensive player or defensive player (both have the ball), this rule applies to BOTH.

Pull your head out of your boyfriend's ass and ing read!

[GSH]

You score in your own basket. You defend your opponent's basket.

As for the block, I don't think it was in the cylinder or above the cylinder when Amare blocked it. I'd have to go look at the replay a few times to check, but who cares.

The Spurs lost because they shot sub .500 from the freethrow line and let the Suns have a hey-day of a third quarter.

On to game five.

You're absolutely right, Kori. From my perspective, it was never a debate about that one thing making the Spurs lose. If they execute tonight, they win. But since it turned into a side discussion, I quoted the actual rule.

I don't like to see refs miss blatantly obvious calls, or refuse to make a call because it is a playoff game. That's what they did on that call. For the record, it doesn't matter when Amare's hand first made contact with the ball. And if you do look at the replay, you will clearly see that the ball would have gone through the rim, had Amare not been touching it while it was in the cylinder. The rule is extremely clear. It doesn't talk about a "blocked shot", and it doesn't talk about when the contact with the ball began. If a player is touching the ball while it is in the cylinder, it's a goaltend. The only exception is a player making a dunk. The refs know that rule all too well. He didn't want to get "involved" at the end of a playoff game. Bad judgment on his part.

The rule is the rule. But the game is over.

[GSH]

Ah, you can't defend you position so you resort to like this. Nice.

How is this SO hard to understand?


It doesn't matter if you're the offensive player or the defensive player. Since, on a block, possession is not held by the offensive player or defensive player (both have the ball), this rule applies to BOTH.

Pull your head out of your boyfriend's ass and ing read!

You don't want to spar with me when it comes to basketball, buttcheek. Find me a rule that says that, and I will personally come and kiss your ass.

What you are referring to is this section of Rule 4:
Section VII-Held Ball A held ball occurs when two opponents have one or both hands firmly on the ball. A held ball should not be called until both players have hands so firmly on the ball that neither can gain sole possession without undue roughness. If a player is lying or sitting on the floor while in possession, he should have an opportunity to throw the ball, but a held ball should be called if there is danger of injury.

It doesn't say anything about a "blocked shot". It means any time two players have simultaneous possession of the ball. That sometimes happens when a player is blocking a shot (although not all that often), but it certainly doesn't happen on every shot block.

[taruky]

What the are some of you talking about? Amare's hand was not touching the rim and the ball certainly wasn't in the cylinder. Take off your homer goggles and get a grip. You lost.