The Terminator vs Terminator 2: Judgement Day

[MannyIsGod]

I see a lot of you all dumping on T3 and I have to say that the movie wasn't half bad. But before you all go up in arms over that, let me explain.

T1 and T2 were actual movies with plot, story lines and what not. T3 just finished up the story line on our end (before Skynet took over) but that's about it for plot.

When I went out and saw T3, I knew what I was getting in to, a watered down story that relied on crazy actions scenes, a ridiculous chase scene that destroys many city blocks and lots of guns and explosions. And you know what, it delivered.

I knew T3 wasn't going to exceed the first two nor did I expect it. What I did expect from it, it delivered.

So in that sense, it wasn't half bad. When your expectations are realistic (read low on plot but high on action), then you won't be disappointed.

Having said all that, T2 has a special place in my heart as well. I'd have to go back and see T1 again as it's been ages.

T2 finished the story. T3 was the studio finding a way to continue the story but it wasn't the story James Cameron intended. They stopped Skynet in T2 but T3 went back and erased one of the themes of the movie that the future wasn't set in stone. Oops, guess it is!

T3's not even a good action movie. I give scifi a lot of leeway because I like so much of it but anyway you slice it T3 is a steaming pile of crap.

[Johnny RIngo]

Of course, I paid attention to T2. Obviously, I understand that the T-800 was sent back in time to protect John Connor. But I'm just saying I would've preferred them sticking with Arnold as a villain. Still a great movie though.

A good portion of T2 was rehashed sequences from T1 so having Arnold play the villain again would make Judgement Day nothing more than a remake of the original. Putting him in the role of hero was a nice change for the series but I can see why some fans had issues with it at the time. Arnold, after T1, did nothing but play the testosterone-laden, pun-spouting hero and a lot of his fans were looking forward to him going back to his darker roots when T2 was announced. Instead, they got more of the same from Arnold(but in a much better film than most his 80s vehicles). In any case, most critics preferred the sequel. Here's Siskel/Eberts's respective reviews for T1 and T2:





Might be off-topic, but I still wish Cameron directed his script for Strange Days instead of handing it off to Katheryn Bigelow and working on anic. Cameron's always had an affinity for science fiction(obvious from the cyberpunk overtones in Strange Days) so it's likely he would have handled the material better. Not that Bigelow did a bad job, just that Cameron's work always has that extra bit of polish(Aliens looks fantastic for a 18 mil budget) Even with a $42 million to spend, Strange Days looked like a B-movie.

[Johnny RIngo]

That just involves getting a better transfer. Now that we're able to handle larger volumes of data in cable and bluray that shouldn't be an issue. Most of the older movies are shot in very high resolutions (how else would they ever be able to show them on huge screens at the theaters) but getting them to your home has been the problem until recently.

Van Ling, Cameron's long-time creative and technical assistant, said this about the transfer on another forum:

RickardL, an approved HD transfer means whatever JC wants it to mean for him to sign off. Given his focus on Avatar right now, it means having to take the time to sit and watch the film and make notes (if any) about tweaks he wants made. He generally does not have the time to do this at all when he is in production/post on a show, so either he has to delegate the approval (not likely) or take the time.

Mike, this means that yes, it might hold up T1 as well. It also depends on whether or not the studio who owns the film will move ahead and use the last-known-to-be-approved master instead of a new one, just to get a product out by a street date target they want to hit in order to maximize sales (like trying to get T1 or T2 out in time for the release of T4). The studio has the legal right to use the last approved master without going back for the filmmaker's re-approval (or else a filmmaker could effectively prevent a studio from ever releasing a disc for a film they actually own), but often won't chance getting on a filmmaker's bad side over it... especially if they want to work with that filmmaker again. On the other hand, a filmmaker may have the contractual right to approve any HD transfer to be used for disc, but they have to do so in a reasonable amount of time, and understand that once it's approved for use, the studio can use it for whatever releases they want without going through the filmmaker as long as they do not alter the look of the transfer in any way (dirt cleanup paintwork is generally allowed, but running the approved transfer through a denoising filter is or a sharpening filter would generally mean needing a new approval).

That was two years ago. More recently, he said:

"The hope is that Terminator will get back on track soon... I was put on hold back in 2009 because many of the desired key participants were a bit busy doing stuff like environmentalism, picking up awards and trying to run California; if we're lucky, there might be a chance of a new release later this year. My understanding is that Lightstorm has been working on a Lowry restoration of T1 for a while now.
As for T2, it's owned by an entirely different studio (Studio Canal), so I don't know if there any plans for yet a new disc... but 2011 would be the 20th anniversary of the release of the film, so I would expect that Lionsgate and Studio Canal wouldn't pass up the opportunity. But since JC has final say over any remaster, I reckon it might take longer... especially if it might be in 3D.

[CubanSucks]

skip to 5:00


thanks for mentioning that,

[Nathan Explosion]

T2 finished the story. T3 was the studio finding a way to continue the story but it wasn't the story James Cameron intended. They stopped Skynet in T2 but T3 went back and erased one of the themes of the movie that the future wasn't set in stone. Oops, guess it is!

T3's not even a good action movie. I give scifi a lot of leeway because I like so much of it but anyway you slice it T3 is a steaming pile of crap.

Except that T3 wasn't a sci fi anymore, just lots of explosions and guns. It's not different than Transformers, robots fighting, explosions and what not. If you know what you're getting before going in, there's no way to really be disappointed.

Anyway you slice it, if you want an actual movie, skip it. If you want violent entertainment, then see it, just don't go to the theater to see it. I didn't and didn't feel cheated by paying so much for so little.

[Nathan Explosion]

To add further, T3 did do one thing to the story, it reinforced the first one. You see, Skynet was NEVER stopped. Kyle Reese is John Connor's father. John Connor can't be born without Reese going back in time and getting Sarah Connor pregnant. Therefore, Reese had to have gone back in time before, and sired John. Armageddon happens and Connor becomes the leader of the resistance where he sends Reese back to save his mom. It's an infinite loop.

If Skynet is stopped in T2, then John Connor should disappear automatically because the war is stopped, Reese is never sent back and John is never conceived. So the fact that John Connor stays alive when Arnold melts himself should automatically tell you that Skynet is still around.

But how? T3 answered that. That's about all it did, but it did it.

[Red Hawk #21]

Just a few things, I think Terminator fans must have been really excited for T2 if they saw the scene with Arnold walking slowly towards Sarah Connor while she's screaming hysterically during the movie trailer. This is the scene where Arnold ends up saying "Come with me if you want to live". That scene totally looks like one of those "OMG, he's back FML" kind of scenes before Arnold shows signs that he's here to help.

And another thing, I've always wondered about the scene were Sarah Connor starts shooting up Miles Dyson's house. I always felt bad the guy got shot in front of his wife and kids like that, even though he didn't die (Well not till later, at least). What was Sarah even thinking when she did this?

PS- Looks like I'm going to have to check out T3 soon...

[Johnny RIngo]

Just a few things, I think Terminator fans must have been really excited for T2 if they saw the scene with Arnold walking slowly towards Sarah Connor while she's screaming hysterically during the movie trailer. This is the scene where Arnold ends up saying "Come with me if you want to live". That scene totally looks like one of those "OMG, he's back FML" kind of scenes before Arnold shows signs that he's here to help.

The initial teaser(directed by the late Stan Winston) was shot so Arnold looked like he was playing the villain again(ominous music/glowing red eyes).



There was also a trailer that tried to conceal the iden y of the protagonist but they scrapped that one soon after opening weekend. Notice how they avoided using any scenes with John/Sarah and the T-800 in the same shot so as to make it appear like he was the villain.

And another thing, I've always wondered about the scene were Sarah Connor starts shooting up Miles Dyson's house. I always felt bad the guy got shot in front of his wife and kids like that, even though he didn't die (Well not till later, at least). What was Sarah even thinking when she did this?

She's thinking three billion lives are more important than a computer engineer and his family.

PS- Looks like I'm going to have to check out T3 soon...

I wouldn't bother. Even in a packed theater the movie seemed underwhelming. It's basically a tier T2 with Claire Danes in place of Linda Hamilton and some random hot chick replacing Robert Patrick. If you disliked T2, you're gonna hate this one even more.

[Johnny RIngo]

Agent Doggett playing the bad Terminator was spot on as well.

Billy Idol was actually supposed to play the T-1000 until a motorcycle accident forced them to recast. You can see his likeness in the concept art:

[MannyIsGod]

Except that T3 wasn't a sci fi anymore, just lots of explosions and guns. It's not different than Transformers, robots fighting, explosions and what not. If you know what you're getting before going in, there's no way to really be disappointed.

Anyway you slice it, if you want an actual movie, skip it. If you want violent entertainment, then see it, just don't go to the theater to see it. I didn't and didn't feel cheated by paying so much for so little.

Did you really just say that a movie involving a cyborg from the future wasn't scifi?

Alrighty then.

[jman3000]

t3 was just a run of the mill hollywood action movie. Nothing about it really stands out to me.

t2 feels so much different. the metallic blue hues used much of the movie, the pacing, the soundtrack, the casting... all of it comes together to make an epic movie.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Might be off-topic, but I still wish Cameron directed his script for Strange Days instead of handing it off to Katheryn Bigelow and working on anic. Cameron's always had an affinity for science fiction(obvious from the cyberpunk overtones in Strange Days) so it's likely he would have handled the material better. Not that Bigelow did a bad job, just that Cameron's work always has that extra bit of polish(Aliens looks fantastic for a 18 mil budget) Even with a $42 million to spend, Strange Days looked like a B-movie.

I really liked that movie. My only complaint is that it runs a bit too long. I remember seeing a teaser at the movies and got excited cuz I saw Cameron's name on it. I was pleasantly surprised. Great cast. Great story. Great soundtrack. A young Juliette Lewis. One of an opening sequence. Win upon win. Gotta see if it's on Blu-ray, now.