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  1. #51
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    No they do not, because they wouldn't be African Americans in Europe.
    I already made fun of myself about this above. You're late to the party.

  2. #52
    I play pretty, no? TeyshaBlue's Avatar
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    Man I just realized I put African Americans when talking about black people in Europe. Genius.
    I read it...and passed.

  3. #53
    Veteran vy65's Avatar
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    If you're point is that Europe is way more tolerant of racial minorities, then new immigrants and xenophobia is highly relevant. If it's specific to black people, then you're right - but who cares? Europeans are just as ed up as Americans - they just oppress different people.

  4. #54
    Cogito Ergo Sum LnGrrrR's Avatar
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    Man I just realized I put African Americans when talking about black people in Europe. Genius.

    To address your point though, I don't know, LnG. I would pretty much look at minority communities in general though and see if they have the same type of educational problems and/or crime problems. However, seeing as the crime problems here are in huge part due to our stupid legislation I am 99% sure the UK's black population isn't overly jailed due to crack cocaine.
    Well, I was thinking of the "chav" population since it seems to share some of the same cultural values that some urban poor reflect (ie. buying flashy clothes/jewelry for social positioning rather than long-term assets). I could be way off; I'm no professional.

  5. #55
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    If you're point is that Europe is way more tolerant of racial minorities, then new immigrants and xenophobia is highly relevant. If it's specific to black people, then you're right - but who cares? Europeans are just as ed up as Americans - they just oppress different people.
    Its a different subject. Americans are just as xenophobic, but xenophobia and racism on a minority group that aren't immigrants are two different subjects. You could argue that they are related and thats fine, but trying to point to European xenophobia to counteract the argument that they are more progressive when it comes to minorities in general is especially funny considering American at udes to immigrants. Its not like our president just had to release his birth certificate or anything.

    Europeans aren't perfect as you pointed out with the veil laws etc - but they're definitely more progressive than the US.

  6. #56
    Veteran vy65's Avatar
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    From what I've heard and personally have experienced, I'd take issue with American's being just as xenophobic. I'd say Europe is way more hostile in that arena. But I don't know how you quantify one over the other: do you add up racial policies and see who has the most marks - the US or Europe?

    I'm inclined to agree with you on the difference - but again - what's the point? Europe is every bit as ed up when it comes to minorities (religious or of a different national origin as opposed to straight-up racial).

  7. #57
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    I really hate the whole <insert your ethnic iden y here>-American labels.

  8. #58
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    Who the elected WC?
    Their is some truth to the statements. Sorry you are a denier.

  9. #59
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    Minorities work just as hard as whites in any setting given the cir stances are the same. Whites in poverty do just as badly.
    You're right, and if you recall, I usually elaborate that it's a thing of culture. Not color. However, people of color vastly outnumber whites in these underclass cultures. Now when it is viewed as an issue of color, the OP is correct as a generalization. However, facts make statistics and statistics don't make facts.

  10. #60
    Displaced 101A's Avatar
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    Do African Americans suffer this way in Europe? If not why?
    A trick question.

    We've gotten so used to the term "African American" because anything else is racist - that we use it when it is nonsensical.

  11. #61
    W4A1 143 43CK? Nbadan's Avatar
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    ...excellent point....I don't think that there is anything wrong with describing someone as 'black', just as I would not think there is anything wrong with describing someone as caucasion.....

  12. #62
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    During a debate over affirmative action, Oklahoma state Rep. Sally Kern (R) said that minorities earn less than white people because they "didn't want to work hard in school," according to KOCO-TV.

    Said Kern: "We have a high percentage of blacks in prison, and that's tragic, but are they in prison just because they are black or because they don't want to study as hard in school? I've taught school, and I saw a lot of people of color who didn't study hard because they said the government would take care of them."

    Kern added that women earn less than men because "they tend to spend more time at home with their families." She later apologized for her remarks.
    Some of the responses make me think that people havent read the actual statements.

    Is it a crime to not study hard in school?
    does studying hard preclude you from going to jail/committing a crime?
    do people who study hard earn more than those who dont?
    Are poor students really thinking ahead that welfare will save them?
    Do women without children still earn less than men?
    If you think answer any of these questions with a straight yes/no, you are a dumb ass.

    I went to mostly middle-upper class schools on 3 continents- almost all diplomat and corporate families. There were a lot of people who didnt study hard. None of them were thinking about welfare (sex, alcohol, drugs, clubs, and videogames usually topped the lists of what they were thinking about, though it is possible some were thinking of their family money- does that count as welfare?). None that I know of have gone to jail. Probably less than 15% of the women have children (early 30's) and about 30% married, yet they still on average make less than men (even though the "hard study" group was dominated by women). I've been to school, and this is what I saw. Why are my generalizations less valid than hers? Oh thats right, because one person's observations have marginal bearing over a large, complex problem, especially when that person hasn't even framed that problem logically. welfare leading to not studying hard leading to prison is as re ed a premise as I've ever seen; trying to tie a premise as re ed as that to an ethnic group, biologically or culturally, is straight bull .

  13. #63
    Stand-up philosopher CharlieMac's Avatar
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    There's no truth in this. Minorities work just as hard as whites in any setting given the cir stances are the same. Whites in poverty do just as badly.

    I'd love to see that work some of the fields my family did and then tell me that we're lazy. that.
    That was a completely different mentality when it came to that type of work ethic. My family did the same both in South Texas and Ohio. There was a need for MOST minorities then. We don't do it now for obvious reasons.

    Plus there is a ton of research and articles in the counseling field that discuss this mentality in some hispanic and african-american communities. Its why there are classes like Counseling in a Multi-cultural Community for all counselors. Its actually an odd mindset that some younger students have now.

    The comment on women was ing stupid though. Something like 95 percent of all principals in one district here is female.

  14. #64
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    Diego, I agree with your point about family wealth. When you consider middle class and below however, "making the grade" matters more.

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