Terry Porter Says Pistons are Better

[spur219]

Matchups of course do matter but at the end of the day it all comes out to who wants it more.

[admack]

You people here really suprise me, if someone says anything different than what you think then automatically
"What the does he know he sucked as a Spur.Idiot was always driving to the rim for an easy layup and the idiot always threw back the ball to the point guard. O!!!! you are right underneath the rim SHOOT THE DAM BALL!!!!"

He is an idiot. How can a man with so much basketball experience (championship at that) not know a little something.
Mark my words those 30 pt 17 rebound games for Tim Duncan are over for this season.
I see him averaging 20 and 7, 2 assist and a block. If that is enough to win then the Spurs will but I doubt it.

[picnroll]

On offense:

Better transition game - Spurs
Better penetrators - Spurs
Better passing game - Spurs
Better low post scorer - Spurs
Better long range shooters - Spurs
Better mid-range game - Pistons
Better running screens - Pistons

When it comes to versatility on offense the Spurs have more weapons to stop.

[whottt]

We can argue stats and matchups all night and all day tomorrow, but with two teams this closely matched, the deciding factors are things you can't measure and tabulate - it'll come down to who's got tighter team play and who just plain wants it more.

And if those things are equal it will come down to coaching/adjustments, talent and depth...

The coaching is too close to call...we'll give the edge to Brown since he was Pop's mentor...but Pop's two les make it essentially too close to call.

But there should be absolutely no argument on who has the superior depth and talent IMO.


The Spurs have the capability, and should be able, to match anything Detroit throws at them...The Pistons are almost our equal on D and IMO slightly better in half court O...but they do not have our versatility on offense...And the Pistons do not have a powerful outside, AND INSIDE, scoring capability. I don't think they have the ability to attack us in transition like we can them...we've got an entire back court of A list transition guards that are almost as adept at the half court set as the Pistons guards have become...

We are either close or better in your strengths...but I just don't think you guys can match our depth and versatility.

The only way the Spurs lose is if they beat themselves...IE they choke.
It's a possibility...we have done it before. But it still boils down to you guys hoping we give you help and beat ourselves...

The Pistons can lose without choking...the Spurs cannot.

[mavsfan1000]

Better transition game - Spurs
Better penetrators - Spurs
Better passing game - Spurs
Better low post scorer - Spurs
Better long range shooters - Pistons
Better mid-range game - Pistons
Better running screens - Pistons
Half Court Offense-Equal
On defense
Transition defense - Spurs
Stopping penetration - Pistons
Forcing Turnovers Spurs
Low post Defense - Equal
Defense Against 3's Equal
Defense against Mid-Range-Pistons
Shut down Player- Spurs
half court Defense - Pistons

[whottt]

Pistons are better long distance shooting

Maybe. But it's not a huge advantage for them...technically Brent Barry and Bruce Bowen are the best long distance shooters in this series...And Big Dogg was the best jumpshooter in the NBA(and one of the best ever) prior to last season.

and half court defense.

Not a chance in . Theirs is an imitation of ours...

I like the Horry, Duncan, Rasho and Nazr combo better than Wallace squared with Elden and Dice.

The big guy that scares me the most on offense from the Pistons is Dice...he has been a Spur killer in the past. I am not worried about either of the Wallaces and I actually hope Elden Campbell gets a lot of minutes in this series...

[admack]

The reason the Piston fans are tentative toward Barry is because that is a shot he can make with Prince flying at him. The defense is set up to handle the first and second option, leaving a desparation three at the end of the shot-clock with the aforementioned Prince doing his thing.
Brent can hit that shot, we know, hence timid.

Back2Back before
so
Back2Back again

[mavsfan1000]

.technically Brent Barry and Bruce Bowen are the best long distance shooters in this series...And Big Dogg was the best jumpshooter in the NBA(and one of the best ever) prior to last season.
They don't play enough minutes to be considered a great 3 point team

I like the Horry, Duncan, Rasho and Nazr combo better than Wallace squared with Elden and Dice.
Duncan is the strong part of that half court defense but Nazr or Horry aren't close. The athletic back court is what makes it tough especially trying to run against them.

The big guy that scares me the most on offense from the Pistons is Dice...he has been a Spur killer in the past. I am not worried about either of the Wallaces and I actually hope Elden Campbell gets a lot of minutes in this series...

Billups and Hamilton are their main scorers.

[picnroll]

Better long range shooters - Pistons

You might want to check your facts on that. Billups is the ONLY Piston who shot above .350 from three. Spurs had five, count them five shooting above .350 including a Barry subpar .357 for the season but more characteristic .440 playoffs. And in the playoffs Spurs have turned it up with four shooting +.400.

Hamilton is a relatively crappy .305 three point shooter. Wouldn't be surprised at some point in games if the Spurs pack it in and let the Pistons try their luck from the top of the key. Those long rebounds would come in handy getting the break going.

[whottt]

The reason the Piston fans are tentative toward Barry is because that is a shot he can make with Prince flying at him. The defense is set up to handle the first and second option, leaving a desparation three at the end of the shot-clock with the aforementioned Prince doing his thing.
Brent can hit that shot, we know, hence timid.

Back2Back before
so
Back2Back again

Well I hope you are wrong...because Barry won't shoot it with a guy flying at him unless it's late in the game. He'll pass it, that's why he's shot at such a high PCT in his career, and I actually don't think he's that good at shooting with a guy running at him, that's why he doesn't shoot it unless he has too. He can shoot with a guy standing him up...but there is something about a guy running at him that he doesn't like...he doesn't consider that an open shot...even if they aren't really that close to him.

Barry will kill you if you leave him open or don't move at him the instant he gets the ball...but if you honor his shot he's not going to kill you, he probably won't even shoot...

That's a good dynamic for the Spurs when he is running it into a double on Duncan(and getting the kick out with regularity), and frustating one when he isn't.


Since I don't expect the Pistons to double team Duncan in this series, Barry is probably going to be the least of your worries unless he is getting PT in the final minutes of the game(a rarity). My advice: do not double Duncan off of Barry and don't dare him to shoot, you can make his shooting a non factor that way. That's what most teams have done and that's why so many Spurs fans hate Barry.

[mavsfan1000]

Alot of teams force the spurs to shoot 3 pointers because of their penetration abilities. Those 3's are wide open so you should be making them.

[whottt]

Alot of teams force the spurs to shoot 3 pointers because of their penetration abilities. Those 3's are wide open so you should be making them.

Believe it or not the Spurs do not pass it out of paint penetration that often...that has been the strength of this team in previous seasons but it has been a weakness this season. We'd probably have lead the NBA in 3 PCT if we did it more often. That's probably my major area of worry VS the Pistons. Manu, Parker and even Duncan do get kind of prone to forcing it and tunnelvision...it hurt us against the Sonics until we got it straightened out in the final games.

[bdubya]

But there should be absolutely no argument on who has the superior depth and talent IMO. .....(snip)

......The only way the Spurs lose is if they beat themselves.

But of course you know there WILL be argument. I'll give you the bench depth, but I believe the Pistons have a slightly more talented core. I'll give the Spurs a slight edge in the backcourt for their creativity, and PF I'd give to Duncan (not for "talent", but for his totally superior consistency). Small forward is going to be a great matchup to watch, but I like Tayshaun overall. As for center? Well, us Pistons fans know that Ben actually walks on water as a hobby on his days off, so don't even bother arguing that one ;-). With sixth man Dice against....(hey, who IS your sixth man these days? Horry? Brent? Rasho? ) Whoever, in spite of Dice's lack of Finals experience, I'd take him over your first two bigs off the bench.

As for "the only way the Spurs lose"...spare me. Is that going to be your line if the Spurs don't pull it off? "We didn't get beat, we beat ourselves. In the Finals, the most important series there is, we just sorta choked." Do you think that would be somehow less embarrassing than admitting that you got beat? Weird...

[whottt]

No, choking is the absolute worst thing you can do...it's excusable to not win a le when you aren't the best team...it's inexcusable when you are...

I wasn't making "excuses" for my team should they lose...I was saying they have absolutely "no excuses" for not winning this series...IMO the Pistons do.

The Spurs not winning will be a greater failure than the Pistons...

I don't know about you, but I would rather lose because I wasn't good enough than lose because I beat myself...so there was nothing in that statement to benefit my team. I was being honest.

And the Spurs pulling a choke certainly isn't out of the realm of possibility...

This team has choked before...

But then again, they also haven't choked before

[Willinsa]

Who gives a crap about what Porter has too say, he sucked as a Spur and
he sucks as a coach.

[whottt]

BTW...

The only starter of yours I take over mine for certain is Ben Wallace over Nazr...Prince over Bowen is not a given...obviously Bowen isn't here for his scoring.

The only bench player I take over his Spurs counterpart is Arroyo over Beno...and Beno may certainly change my mind...he is a rookie after all.


As for Horry VS Dice...for this season, this series?

Robert ing Horry and I can't even believe you are serious about debating that point...Horry all the way. I love Dice...but Horry is Horry, stats be damned.


Put it this way...Horry presents the biggest problem for you guys in this series...let me tell you why...

Sheed is your best Duncan defender...Wallce Anchors your D...You guys are built around a twin tower concept similar to the Spurs...the difference is that the Spurs have grown very adept at small ball and are not totally built around the concept of twin towers D...


When Horry is in the game and hanging out at the 3...

Who do you guys put on him?

Sheed your best Duncan defender?

Or Wallace, the anchor of your D?

Either way it's going to put pressure you guys haven't seen yet on your D...


If you put Sheed on him Duncan will own Wallace.

If you put Wallace on him you lose the heart of your D and Manu and Parker will rip your inside to shreds...

Think about it.

[bdubya]

No, choking is the absolute worst thing you can do...it's excusable to not win a le when you aren't the best team...it's inexcusable when you are...

I wasn't making "excuses" for my team should they lose...I was saying they have absolutely "no excuses" for not winning this series...IMO the Pistons do.

The Spurs not winning will be a greater failure than the Pistons...

I don't know about you, but I would rather lose because I wasn't good enough than lose because I beat myself...so there was nothing in that statement to benefit my team. I was being honest.

And the Spurs pulling a choke certainly isn't out of the realm of possibility...

This team has choked before...

But then again, they also haven't choked before

Thanks for the clarification (had me confused there). IMHO, you're seriously underestimating the Pistons, but we both know there's only one thing that could change your mind....

[whottt]

I'm not underestimating the Pistons...

I know for a fact the Spurs are more talented though. They are. I don't see how that part is arguable.

Whether or not the Spurs have as much or more heart, or if Pop is a better coach than Brown...those things are definitely up for debate...To say the Pistons have the talent, depth or versatility is just plain ole homerism on your part.

I think you just want to argue...what ever it is that I criticize about the Pistons you will take as the ulitamate slight and defend...even when it isn't....it's either that or you think the Pistons are superior in every way shape or form...either way it's homerism. Right now I see you arguing the unarguable...that your team is close in talent to the Spurs...it isn't. Your best player is considered elite for what he does on one side of the ball...Defense...

Our best player is known for his block scoring ability...yet he's the only guy in NBA history to make first team All NBA Defense his first 8 years in the NBA.

You guys got the shorthand on talent and depth in this series...it's inarguable.


Look at who had the better record...look at the the All Stars(including the reseves who are decided by the coaches)...or, if you like, look at the members of the defensive teams voted on by coaches...How many guys do you have on your bench that could start for a good NBA playoff team? None. The Spurs have at least two. And I'd say it's actually 3 since Horry is and has been a defacto starter his entire career...a career in which he's won 5 rings.


None of this mean the Spurs will win and the Pistons will lose...IMO it only means the Spurs should win and the Pistons should lose...that in no way means that it will happen.

[bdubya]

To say the Pistons have the talent, depth or versatility is just plain ole homerism on your part.

And for me to grant the point on depth right off the bat, and then read a line like this, is just plain ole comic relief - thanks (chuckle). Look, I believe the Pistons are fully capable of beating the Spurs in this series. Not just of being the guys on-site when the Spurs inexplicably choose to melt down, but of BEATING THEM. If that makes me a "homer", hey, excuse my failure to genuflect at the Spurs' feet.....

Personally, I don't see how you "choke" away a BEST OF SEVEN SERIES. A game, sure, but a whole series? You can lose due to injuries, some would say you can get screwed by the refs, but if you "choke" an entire SERIES, I think that's a strong indication that either you're not as good as you thought, or that the other team is BETTER.

btw - for your Horry scenario, depends who else is in. Assuming TD & Bowen, I'd put Sheed on him and trust Ben on TD for a few possessions. Maybe he'll get lucky and TD will inexplicably "choke"....

[picnroll]

Every game I've seen Ben on TD, TD has owned Ben. I would love that matchup. Better chance with Campbell or even McDyess.

[whottt]

And for me to grant the point on depth right off the bat, and then read a line like this, is just plain ole comic relief - thanks (chuckle). Look, I believe the Pistons are fully capable of beating the Spurs in this series. Not just of being the guys on-site when the Spurs inexplicably choose to melt down, but of BEATING THEM. If that makes me a "homer", hey, excuse my failure to genuflect at the Spurs' feet.....

LMAO, who is expecting you to genuflect anything? I am just expecting you to be honest about what the teams' strengths and weaknesses are....I pointed out the coaches putting Spurs players on all NBA teams...and pointed out guys who were starters for playoff teams not too long ago on our bench.

Obviously I expect too much...I seem to have no problem not questioning the heart of your team while casting doubt on that of my own...what I will not do is concede the talent and depth point because it blatantly favors the Spurs...And I backed up that point well if you ask me...I mean what else do you want me to do to prove it?

Put it this way...we lost Duncan for 15 games, Manu for 8, Rasho for quite a few as well, and we still put up a better record than you guys, in a conference that had more 50+ win teams in it, INCLUDING the team with the best record in the NBA in it...

The regular season is all about talent...it's not like I am saying you guys are the Bobcats or something...But the Spurs have a signifigant edge in talent and depth in this series...it's the one edge they definitely have.


You have absolutely nothing but 3 DPOY awards for a single player to rebuff that point...

Personally, I don't see how you "choke" away a BEST OF SEVEN SERIES. A game, sure, but a whole series? You can lose due to injuries, some would say you can get screwed by the refs, but if you "choke" an entire SERIES, I think that's a strong indication that either you're not as good as you thought, or that the other team is BETTER.

I'd agree with that point about the better team winning, if you choke you aren't the better team.....what it isn't an idication of is talent...we're talking talent, not better. The Spurs edge is in talent.

And it depends on how many OPEN SHOTS you miss...I don't think you watched any of the Spurs Lakers playoff series in the last few years...if you had, you'd know it is very possible to choke in every 4th quarter of nearly every game of a 7 games series(which seldom go 7)...

You'd know it's possible for a guy to be left WIDE THE OPEN while one or two of his teamates are drawing double teams, and miss OPEN shots that he made at a 40% clip during the regular season while he was being defended strongly.

btw - for your Horry scenario, depends who else is in. Assuming TD & Bowen, I'd put Sheed on him and trust Ben on TD for a few possessions. Maybe he'll get lucky and TD will inexplicably "choke"....

I'd do that too...but you must realize that is what the Spurs want to happen.

We also want Rasheed out on the 3 point line on offense, and defense...something I think Rasheed will be willing to accomodate...

We also want Horry out at the 3 point line on offense and will be happy to see him out there on D as well if he's guarding Rasheed.

Where do you guys want Rasheed? Where do you think he'll end up being?

Horry is a starter on this team...he just doesn't start.

The Spurs versatility is going to take you out of your normal schemes...You guys will not be able to do that with us...maybe you could do it a little with Sheed and Prince...but that's it. If the Spurs do as I hope and put Bruce on Prince...you won't be able to use Prince to take us out of our schemes.

We know what you guys are going to throw at us...it's guard oriented half court offense and strong interior D...arguably the best half court team in the NBA....but we are close to your match in the half court O, your equal in D...and lurking under the surface of our stodgy defensive image, is what I believe to be the best rotation of transition guards in the NBA...

The Spurs talent and depth is going to be able to throw challenges at you that you will not be able to throw at us...because of talent...that doesn't mean we win..it only means we should.


I really don't understand your abrasiveness over accepting the truth on this..

I personally like the underdog role better than the heavy favorite, the pressure, and the expectation, is on the Spurs...I think you will find that to be the majority sentiment...and it's because of their edge in talent and depth.

[beirmeistr]

Who gives a crap about what Porter has too say, he sucked as a Spur and
he sucks as a coach.

Amen to that. He's no mental giant.

[milkyway21]

"I think Rasheed is one of those guys when he is asked to be the man night in and night out, he's going to have a difficult time doing it. But in Detroit, it's not on him every night. But it's been proven that when he plays the way he played in Game 7 (against Miami), that team can't be beaten."

he's right about this guys. Rasheed had 20 pts against Miami in game7.

But, what IF he'll just contribute 2 pts(game5?) or 13 pts(game6?), again?

everyone is en led to his opinion. though i am picking the Spurs to win this one bec they dominated against Detroit(game2 in Detroit, Duncan got injured), this season.

[Tek_XX]

The Spurs have another go to guy other than tim now as compared to when Porter was here. We don't have to rely on tim as much as we used to.

[JamStone]

I have perused this messageboard for months now, but haven't posted a response until tonight, on this eve of this very special NBA Finals. Now, I will admit that I did not read this entire thread, but I do wish to address a few things.

Spurs fans are supremely confident that their team is better than the Pistons. And, they are very well justified in thinking so. The Spurs team is excellent. They have two great go-to, prime time players in TD and Manu. They have a lightning quick point guard, steady role players, and plenty of depth. Coming from a Pistons fan, the Spurs are an absolutely amazing team.

HOWEVER, for those of you Spurs fans who haven't been able to watch a lot of Detroit games this season until some of the playoff games on TNT, there are some things that have become misconceptions about this Detroit team. They have been somewhat addressed in this thread, so I'd like to clarify:

1. "The Detroit offense is not good, and sometimes anemic." While admittingly the Pistons have had had scoring problems at times, one must understand that EVERY NBA team will have it's problems scoring from time to time. The Detroit offense is actually very well balanced. In these playoffs, all five starters have led the team in scoring at least one game. When the Pistons play the way they are capable of playing, they share the ball and they will have 5 or 6 players in double digits, but only one or two that have 20+ points.

2. "The Spurs will be able to sag off of Ben Wallace and double off of him." Philadelphia tried that and Ben Wallace scored 29 points. Indiana didn't learn from that and Ben Wallace had a 21 point game. He even can make a 15 foot jumper from time to time. Ben is certainly not a consistent offensive option, but he is not the liability he used to be.

3. "Since Rasheed is the Pistons' best post player and likes to take jumpshots, the Pistons will have problems scoring inside." While Rasheed has the skill to be the Pistons' best post player, Chauncey Billups and Tayshaun Prince are actually the most effective post up players and will take advantage of mismatches.

4. "The Spurs have a huge advantage over the Pistons with respect to the benches." While the Spurs definitely have more depth and absolutely have a better bench, the bench play and production will only be a major factor if the Pistons get in foul trouble or have an injury to one of its seven main rotation players. Supposedly, the Miami Heat had a clear advantage in that area as well, but if you look at the statistics, Miami's bench played more minutes, but the Pistons bench had nearly the same production. The Piston starters all play 35-42 minutes per game, and Tayshaun and Rip sometimes play nearly the whole game. That's where the conditioning comes in. San Antonio uses its bench more, and therefore, the production is that much more important. But, the bench is not nearly the factor some people think it is, UNLESS foul trouble or injury come into play.


ANYWAY, those are just a couple of points. Some of you Spurs fans may have watched a lot of Pistons games. But, perhaps some of you haven't and have this misconception about the Pistons from what the media and especially what ESPN and TNT analysts seem to say. There is some merit to what they say. But, don't believe everything you've heard.

The Spurs are the best team in the league. But, the Pistons will give them all they have and I think it will be an exciting series. Of course, I think the Pistons will win, and I hope the Pistons win, but we'll just have to wait to see.

I couldn't disrespect the Spurs like some Spurs fans do the Pistons. Just making it to the NBA Finals says a lot about both teams.