Is Ginobili a Hall of Famer?

[JamStone]

Kukoc (although your hypothesis is correct if TK gets in, so does Manu just because Manu's accolades are greater than TK's, but they have no bearing on one another) isn't an apples to apples comparison.

Bill Bradley is the guy to compare to. He's in.

Manu's NBA accolades are greater than Kukoc's. I've read time and time again even by Spurs fans that if it's just NBA, Manu does not get in and that he gets in because of his international resume. Even with the Olympic gold medal in 2004, Manu's international accolades are not greater than Kukoc's. That's why the comparison has merit.

You knew what he meant by "all around" or whatever he said. He was referring to the HOF and what it takes to get in.

Did Kukoc win a Euroleague le, Olympic Gold and NBA le? Because Manu is one of only two players to do so and the other one is in.

Manu is a lock and Kukoc has nothing to do with it.

Except he didn't say "all around." He said "at all levels."

No, Kukoc does not have an Olympic gold medal. Even taking into consideration the Olympic gold, Kukoc's international career is still at least as impressive as Ginobili's, and that's why he does have to do with whether Manu gets in the HOF.

[JamStone]

You can have "overall basketball career.".. I thought I was clear the first time, but I guess I wasn't.

Not clear at all. Poorly worded if that's what you meant.

Top players or not, it's something no other team did before them, and they did it right here in the US. It was historical back then and it also had an impact on how Team USA prepared their teams afterwards (especially after the second defeat in 2005). I'll have to dig up an article from back then that commented that when they got back to the hotel after the game, a couple of other teams were waiting for them in the lobby to applaud them.


I didn't say 'in the Olimpics'. Ginobili's lead Argentina was the first national team to beat Team USA since they began fielding NBA players in the 2002 World Championship (in Indiana, where Dirk was the MVP).
They're actually the only national team to this day to defeat Team USA twice since they began fielding NBA players (the second time being in Athens).

I apologize. I thought you were referring to the 2004 Olympics.

[DPG21920]

No, Manu's NBA career being better, plus his international career being just as good plus him being one of only two players alive to accomplish a rare feat (no matter if you want to argue about them all individually) makes his body of work more than TK's collectively.

It's the tri-fecta that separates him and makes him a lock and TK not. You can argue whether that is right or wrong, but that's how it is.

[ElNono]

Wasn't an argument in semantics.

I stand by what I said.

[ElNono]

Not clear at all. Poorly worded if that's what you meant.

Poorly worded it is then...

[ElNono]

Let me state that criteria isn't a lock either... Some people were mad that Reggie was not in the ballot for 2011... I feel guys like Sabonis or Schmidt should have easily been in already, but are not.

[LkrFan]

Let me state that criteria isn't a lock either... Some people were mad that Reggie was not in the ballot for 2011... I feel guys like Sabonis or Schmidt should have easily been in already, but are not.

Sabonis should have joined the NBA in his 20's. He would have dominated. For realz. He had mad game.

[ElNono]

Actually, I stand corrected. Sabonis will be inducted in August 2011 and be part of this year's class...

[JamStone]

No, Manu's NBA career being better, plus his international career being just as good plus him being one of only two players alive to accomplish a rare feat (no matter if you want to argue about them all individually) makes his body of work more than TK's collectively.

It's the tri-fecta that separates him and makes him a lock and TK not. You can argue whether that is right or wrong, but that's how it is.

I think it's a great accomplishment and distinction for Manu. But I don't think it guarantees HOF induction.

I'll give you another distinction, although not as exclusive, that is similarly impressive but has not guaranteed induction to the HOF. There are only 7 players in the history of the NBA to have won an NBA le, an Olympic gold, and an NCAA championship. (edit) One of them is not a HOFer, Quinn Buckner.

Like I said, it's an impressive distinction. But it's not the main reason that will get Manu in the HOF. It will be a consideration. It will be his entire international resume that will give him the nod, an international resume that is absolutely rivaled by Toni Kukoc's.

[DPG21920]

Sure, his international career rivals Manu's, but Manu's NBA career is clearly better and the distinction just adds to it.

It's the sum of everything, not the individual parts.

The distinction you listed is impressive, but no where near Manu's IMO. NCAA is no where near the level of Euroleague. Not even close. Then you have to look at their accolades as a whole as well.

[JamStone]

Sure, his international career rivals Manu's, but Manu's NBA career is clearly better and the distinction just adds to it.

It's the sum of everything, not the individual parts.

The distinction you listed is impressive, but no where near Manu's IMO. NCAA is no where near the level of Euroleague. Not even close. Then you have to look at their accolades as a whole as well.

That I can agree with to a great extent.

Like you said, sum of everything, not individual parts, like the NBA, Euroleague championships, Olympic gold distinction. The distinction is not what will get Manu in the Hall if he gets there. It will be his entire career.

That said, I still think it's debatable. And I do truly believe whether Kukoc is inducted to the Hall or not has a great bearing on whether Ginobili gets in. You're free to disagree.

[BRHornet45]

Lmao christ no

[jARS mEsH sEt]

Charles Barkley likened Ginobili's resume to that of Drazen Petrovic

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dra%C5%BEen_Petrovi%C4%87

Drazen's accolades =

• 6× European Player of the Year:
  
  • 4× Euroscar Award
    (1986, 1989, 1992, 1993)
  • 2× Mr. Europa Award
    (1986, 1993)
  
  
• All-NBA Third Team (1993)

Ginobili's accolades =

• 3× NBA Champion (2003, 2005, 2007)
• 2× NBA All-Star (2005, 2011)
• All-NBA Third Team (2008)
• NBA Sixth Man of the Year (2008)
• NBA All-Rookie Second Team (2003)
• Lega A (Italy) MVP (2001)
• Euroleague Final Four MVP (2001)
• FIBA Americas Championship MVP (2001)
• All-Euroleague First Team (2002)
• Italian Cup MVP (2002)
• Lega A MVP (2002)
• FIBA World Championship All-Tournament Team (2002)
• Olimpia de Oro (2003, 2004 (shared))
• FIBA World Championship All-Tournament Team (2006)
• 35 Greatest Euroleague Players (2008)

Drazen was inducted in 2002. It's not that much of a stretch to say Ginobili's accolades are comparable to Drazen's accolades. Drazen has more consistent international accolades, but Ginobili has a nice balance having won at every major level (NBA championship, Euroleague championship, Olympic gold medal).

Had Ginobili been awarded Finals MVP of 2005 like he probably should have, I'd be more inclined to say he has a solid chance.

Ginobili's not a lock, but it's not absurd to say that he has a reasonable shot at the hall of fame if Drazen got in. I mean, it's pretty obvious that Ginobili's not a "first ballot" hall of famer like Kobe or Dirk or Tim Duncan. But, he has a chance. I think the tacit precedent set by Drazen's induction in '02 is testament to that.

[SenorSpur]

Let's looks as some of his accomplisments to date:

MVP of Italian League (twice)
MVP of 2004 Gold Medal-winning Argentina team
Key player and integral part of 3 Spurs championship teams ('03, '05, '07)
2-Time NBA All star, One-time 3rd Team All-NBA honor
NBA 6th Man of the Year

Methinks he's a shoo-in and very-well deserving

[NewcastleKEG]

International vote...... he's getting in. Parker will prob be left out

[SenorSpur]

Charles Barkley likened Ginobili's resume to that of Drazen Petrovic

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dra%C5%BEen_Petrovi%C4%87

Drazen's accolades =

• 6× European Player of the Year:
  
  • 4× Euroscar Award
    (1986, 1989, 1992, 1993)
  • 2× Mr. Europa Award
    (1986, 1993)
  
  
• All-NBA Third Team (1993)

Ginobili's accolades =

• 3× NBA Champion (2003, 2005, 2007)
• 2× NBA All-Star (2005, 2011)
• All-NBA Third Team (2008)
• NBA Sixth Man of the Year (2008)
• NBA All-Rookie Second Team (2003)
• Lega A (Italy) MVP (2001)
• Euroleague Final Four MVP (2001)
• FIBA Americas Championship MVP (2001)
• All-Euroleague First Team (2002)
• Italian Cup MVP (2002)
• Lega A MVP (2002)
• FIBA World Championship All-Tournament Team (2002)
• Olimpia de Oro (2003, 2004 (shared))
• FIBA World Championship All-Tournament Team (2006)
• 35 Greatest Euroleague Players (2008)

Drazen was inducted in 2002. It's not that much of a stretch to say Ginobili's accolades are comparable to Drazen's accolades. Drazen has more consistent international accolades, but Ginobili has a nice balance having won at every major level (NBA championship, Euroleague championship, Olympic gold medal).

Had Ginobili been awarded Finals MVP of 2005 like he probably should have, I'd be more inclined to say he has a solid chance.

Ginobili's not a lock, but it's not absurd to say that he has a reasonable shot at the hall of fame if Drazen got in. I mean, it's pretty obvious that Ginobili's not a "first ballot" hall of famer like Kobe or Dirk or Tim Duncan. But, he has a chance. I think the tacit precedent set by Drazen's induction in '02 is testament to that.

Looks like you beat me to it. After reading the remaining accolades for Manu, I"ve even more convinced he's a lock for the HOF - and he should be.

[Sean Cagney]

Bball hall of fame yes...... He is.

[jARS mEsH sEt]

Sorry I didn't mention Drazen's most important accomplishments -

A star on multiple stages, Petrović earned two silver medals and one bronze in Olympic basketball, a gold and a bronze in the FIBA World Championship, a gold and a bronze in the FIBA European Championship, earned six European Player of the Year awards (four Euroscar Awards, and was named Mr. Europa in basketball twice). In 1985 he received the golden badge award for best athlete of Yugoslavia.
Seeking a bigger arena after his career start in Europe, Petrović joined the National Basketball Association in 1989 as a member of the Portland Trail Blazers. After playing mostly off the bench that year, Petrović experienced a break-out following a trade to the New Jersey Nets, starting and becoming one of the league's best shooting guards.



Clearly Drazen's international record (not including the NBA) is more spectacular than Ginobili's international record, but not by much.



Ginobili's 3 NBA rings somewhat makes up for this (if not puts him above Drazen overall, though this is arguable).