Who will start with Duncan should be the last of Spurs' concern. Whatever rotation Spurs do, the result will be the same: Spurs frontcourt is too weak especially defensively. A significant trade or signing must be done this offseason to tweak the frontcourt.
Pop is still a couple of years behind and will continue to be until Duncan retires.
The question should not be who will be Duncan's front court running mate....it should be who will Splitter's front court running mate be?
It should be Duncan coming off the bench and playing 15-25 minutes a game while the young guys form a DEFENSIVE FOUNDATION that Duncan can come in and fortify.
That would set the bar HIGHER than trying to patch up an already weak defense by counting on an aging Duncan to be the main guy. Where the was Pop when the Suns---the SUNS????--- were exposing and destroying Duncan? Where was Pop when he saw that any team can draw out Duncan on the pick and roll and then blow by him because Duncan cannot move laterally anymore?
Is Pop in denial again? Memphis just re-inforced the Duncan decline and Pop's answer is to trot out Duncan again....as the MAIN guy on a defense?????
Pop is too set in his ways to change and/or think in fresh new ways.
So whats the answer. Just force Duncan to retire? Tell Holt to spend huge bucks like Cuban and Buss for star players?
It's too late.. tbh
The time has passed..
The window is shut...
Bonner-ball experiment lasted 3 years too long. Now Duncan is 35 going on 36...
As long as Pop and Bonner are on the same team, Matty will always be Pop's favorite player.
You can start by letting Duncan be an asset instead of a liability.
You can't cheat father time...but Duncan can come off the bench and be a good 15-25 minute guy. The important thing is that the defense has to be great WITHOUT Duncan...so that when Duncan enters the game...the defense will actually be better for a few minutes...this could cause a lot of problems for any opponent.
Splitter & (free agent-MOBILE BIG) CAN START...Duncan can fortify the D.---instead of being the main anchor at his age.
The only team in the league that would even think about bringing Duncan off the bench is the Lakers. He'd be guaranteed to start for every other team in the league.
I've heard the "Duncan off the bench" thing a few times now and it's flat out ridiculous. He finished second among centers in PER (14th overall; 1st on Spurs). I'm not saying PER is the be all end all, but go and look at the list. The top twenty are pretty much a who's who of the best players in the league.
He's still one of the best all around bigs in the league and is good for 28-32 solid minutes most games. He just needs more help; it's that simple. He can't be paired with undersized, limited players and specialists. He needs a legit starter next to him. Splitter can be that guy, but they need someone else, as well. Someone who, when it comes to finishing games, has the capacity to not be a liability on either end.
A guy they should take a look at is Blatche. I explain why here: http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...124967&page=24
No matter what they do, it more than likely is too late. But that doesn't mean they shouldn't try. After all Duncan's done for this organization, at the very least they owe it to him to continue to try to contend for his (presumed) final season or two. I'm not talking about making some insane trade that robs them of Hill and/or Splitter for some aging big. But there are realistic trades out that that can improve this team short term, while serving as a bridge to the future.
They can re-build when Duncan's gone. They'll have plenty of time to. For now, keep trying. They owe it to him and besides, it's San Antonio. It's highly unlikely (and that's being generous) they'll get anything close to another Duncan/big three.
I see your point and I mean no disrespect to Duncan...but...
Wouldn't you rather have a fresh Duncan playing sparingly all season and adding him to an already stellar defense....
than a tired out overworked Duncan who plays all season on a defense that will get destroyed as soon as Duncan takes a breather?
This is what I mean by Pop thinking in new and fresh ways...why try what has already failed going on 5 years?
As much as we WANT Timmy to be what he once was...it will just not happen again.
Why not instead re-build and keep him as a luxury piece that can bring the spurs over the top in key situations (playoffs---deep run) and get to see him come in with bursts of 15-25 minute energy?
...instead of a broken down aging pathetic figure out of gas by game 2 or 3 of a 7 game series.
People forget that Duncan is only 1 year younger than Dice and at times his knees look even worse than Dice's (movement-wise). I'm not advocating TD off the bench, but it's obvious he needs help to man the paint - not having to cover Bonner/Blair. He should be expected to play a role like Dice did (around 25 mins) - complementary - mostly defensive - not as part of the "big 3."
Last edited by rmt; 05-16-2011 at 07:25 PM.
There is no such thing as a "fresh Duncan" anymore. They monitored his minutes like never before this season. The few weeks leading up to the playoffs, he barely played. Yet as the Grizzlies series wore on, he wore down. I maintain that some of that was match-up related. He was giving up 2 inches and 20-30 pounds to Gasol. But still.
Duncan's minutes are no longer the issue. They can play him 25 mpg, 30 mpg, or anywhere in between and it's not going to make a difference. The lack of help is the issue. Saddle Garnett, Nowitzki, Gasol, etc. with his recent front lines and they're not going anywhere in the playoffs, either.
What you're suggesting is not realistic. They have yet to put a legit, long term second big in place since '03. They may have that now in Splitter. But it took them seven years to get that piece and it'll be eight before they properly utilize it. To think they'll be able to get a big who's clear cut better than Duncan, is ridiculous. They don't have the assets for it, not even if they gutted their team. And if they somehow did acquire it, you can forget about Duncan being "a luxury piece to bring the Spurs over the top", because they wouldn't have enough quality pieces to even be in that position.
Robinson was lauded when he played the role Duncan is now playing and Garnett has been lauded for it for years, but when Duncan plays it, he's a "pathetic figure"? He's still a very effective player, he's just no longer physically capable of being a dominant one-on-one scorer, because of his knees. It happens to all players, particularly great big men, who have a ton of mileage. People need to stop comparing him to the player he once was. All that does is obscure the player he still is.
rmt, Duncan has significantly more mileage than McDyess and hard mileage. Not only playoff games, but years of banging in the post, blocking tons of shots, rebounding at a high rate, etc. Those are the things that wears down the spring in one's knees.
Many of you seem to think Duncan's limited mobility is some rare thing. Apparently you guys didn't see the tail end of Olajuwon's and Ewing's careers and have ignored the tail end of O'Neal's. Robinson didn't have the mileage that those three had, so he didn't fall as far. But this is how it works.
Everything you are saying is probably true...
But it only reinforces my point...that it is time to think in new ways and stop thinking that Duncan should be the MAJOR defensive anchor....
It got the spurs nowhere the last four years...so it is time to face the truth...
Duncan is NOT the answer...
Yes, he still can be effective in stretches...but again...where has that gotten the spurs four years in a row?
"Duncan is not the answer", but who is that they can realistically attain? He's still one of the best defensive anchors in the league, he's just not the best. Which is to say, he needs help.
TD 21 with the goods. Duncan is a great piece to have, especially defencivelly at center, but these days he can't be expected to shore up defencive liabilities like bonner/blair. Splitter would alright, but that leaves the bench at the mercy of the Turd Towers. Definetly a player like blatche or someone similar is a a must, if spurs have any intention of making noise in the playoffs, otherwise it will be the same story all over again.
Tim Duncan is a top 5 center in the NBA and you want him on the bench for 20 minutes a game?
Pure idiocy.
You make it sound so easy to find a starting caliber big.
OK we could try fortify the defense this way. A trade with Detroit. Who have no realistic shot at a championship anytime soon and are about 7 million over the salary cap.
Ben Wallace and Greg Monroe for Antonio McDyess
Spurs get a big starting centre in Greg Monroe at 6'11" 250lbs who averaged 9.4ppg 7.5rpg 1.2 steals and will only get better, also get Big Ben who at his advanced age still averaged 1 steal and 1 block per game in limited minutes.
In return the Pistons get Antonio who retires saving Detroit about 5 million in salary and also luxury tax on top of that. May be one sided but maybe a crappy team might want to save some coin in this day and age with no realistic shot at a le or playoff appearance.
Thoughts
Duncan, Splitter, Monroe, Wallace would be a pretty solid frontcourt defensively and offensively. Couldn't give a crap about Bonner and Blair, try trade them for a decent defensive small forward if we can't unload RJ in a trade for a better fit at SF.
I like where you're going with this, but no ing way detroit gives up such a promising young talent, just to shed some salary.
Hmm i hope i'm smelling a Blair trade....
Theoretically, I agree with you. The problem is that Duncan has been put in the unenviable position of having to be the Spurs best big the past 2 seasons. Obviously, he's not that player anymore and should not have to be relied on as such. All of this puts the onus on Pop and RC to do whatever is necessary to augment the frontline to get in a better player to bolster the frontline to help Splitter, help Duncan.
Nail on the head Senor.
Are you suggesting that the Spurs should have found a big that is better than Duncan? Duncan is the greatest power forward of all time and finding a player to replace him with no cap space and limited assets would be next to impossible.
I think there has been too much focus on getting 'big' just because we lost of Memphis and their bigs of Randolph, Gasol and to some extent Arthur. But other than Memphis are there any other dominating tandems in the league? Maybe the Lakers but look how their season turned out. Looking at the four teams left in the playoffs do any of them having frontlines that are dominating? If I had to rank them I would probably go with 1) Mavs, 2) OKC, 3) Bulls and then 4) Heat. The only reason the Mavs would be number one is because of Dirks' offensive game (but hardly dominating in the paint) and also because of their playoff experience (Chandler and Haywood). OKC has some experience in Perkins but they are not a formidable frontline. The Spurs including Blair has had much success against both Thunder and Mavs.
To say that the Spurs FO has not made any progress in the last couple of years is not correct. In the past two years they have addressed their frontline by signing McDyess, Splitter, resigning Bonner and drafting Blair. I can remember the excitement when the Spurs were able to sign McDyess and many on here hailed the move as Dice was a Spurs type player, great defense, veteran, etc. I still think that Blair can be a big contributor as he is still very young and did made some improvements to his game. If he can develop a 10-12 foot jumper that should help his game tremendously. Bonner while not being the athletic, shot blocking player everyone seems to covet now is still a smart and very reliable player that understand the defensive schemes and can shoot the three.
If Dice decides to retire then the Spurs will be forced to find another big to replace him. But if he decides to return then I think the improvements of Splitter and Blair can be enough to compete in the Western Conference.
The problem is Duncan offensively, can no longer take over a game like in years past, at least not consistantly. Duncan needs a big that can help in that area.
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