These kids held back by bad teachers and unions?

[MannyIsGod]

Arbor conscious alpha male

[TeyshaBlue]

[LnGrrrR]

Read the more recent attempts at special rights legislation. They want to legalize perception. If a gay "perceives" he is being biased against for his lifestyle, the left recognizes he may have a case.

Other examples of bad law:

They want to legalize perception. If a woman "perceives" she is being biased against for her clothing, the left recognizes she may have a case.

Why do people say what affirmative action has become today is right? It has become a system of quota's. To say that the black community needs a quota system to get ahead is to say they are not equal to whites, hence, a racists beliefs.

Or it could be recognizing the fact that many businesses are owned by whites, who own a disproportionate amount of wealth due to this. Also, while it may be libertarian to suggest that it's less efficient for businesses to be racist, and eventually, non-racist companies will lead the way, in the meantime, the minorities might not be getting jobs.

Seems to me standing for affirmative action is a politically correct way to be a racist.

It's hard to see otherwise when you have such a narrow view. I could use the same logic to say that people who support torture only do so because they feel weak and inferior, and want to inflict suffering on others due to said inferiority.

I believe as MLK does. People should be judged by the character (and merit) rather than skin color. Quota systems squash the merit system.

And yet, they often aren't. Tell me, did MLK specifically bash any sort of quota-based system?

[Wild Cobra]

As for the OP, its pretty obvious immigrant families have different structures and expectations for their children. They set the bar higher, for one.

I will agree. Again, they know they have a better chance here than in their native countries, while president Obama is apologizing to other nations about how bad we are.

[Wild Cobra]

OK LnGrrrR. I understand. Two wrong make a right in your book.

[ElNono]

OK LnGrrrR. I understand. Two wrong make a right in your book.

If that's what you get out of that, you didn't understand a thing.

[DarrinS]

Somehow, "The Man" wasn't able to keep these swarthy, immigrant kids down.

Maybe, just maybe, success is achieved by hard work of the individual. What a concept.

[LnGrrrR]

OK LnGrrrR. I understand. Two wrong make a right in your book.

In a sense, yes, though I don't see affirmative action necessarily as a "wrong". If everything truly were equal, of course it'd be wrong. But they're not. How else do you explain the disproportionate numbers of wealthy whites vs wealthy minorities? Culture?

Your idea of fairness is like spotting someone 50 yards in a 100 yrd dash, and then demanding both sides start at the same time, and wondering why the person without the headstart is complaining since both can run equally fast.

[LnGrrrR]

Note: Individually, white person A may have the same advantages as minority person B. But overall, access to wealth is far greater in the majority (ie. white), and wealth is usually a factor in education, which is a factor in future wealth.

[LnGrrrR]

Somehow, "The Man" wasn't able to keep these swarthy, immigrant kids down.

Maybe, just maybe, success is achieved by hard work of the individual. What a concept.

Do you make scarecrows for a living DarrinS?

Maybe, just maybe, no one ever said hard work doesn't help. Maybe, just maybe though, hard work might not be enough.

[DarrinS]

Do you make scarecrows for a living DarrinS?

Maybe, just maybe, no one ever said hard work doesn't help. Maybe, just maybe though, hard work might not be enough.

It appears to be enough for Indian and Chinese immigrants. Do you think the same formula might work for others?

[Wild Cobra]

If that's what you get out of that, you didn't understand a thing.

It's either that, or you think blacks cannot stand on their own.

I get the prejudice argument, but that's outdated except for a small percentage of employers. Why are you in favor of harming the majority because of the minority?

Employers want to hire the best they can find. they are profit motivated. If you think racism trumps profit with more than just a small percentage of employers, then I suggest you stop being so biased and ignorant. Search out some truth.

[ElNono]

Somehow, "The Man" wasn't able to keep these swarthy, immigrant kids down.

Maybe, just maybe, success is achieved by hard work of the individual. What a concept.

Somehow, "The Scary Union Teachers" weren't able to keep these swarthy, immigrant kids down either.

[ElNono]

It's either that

It's definitely that.

[LnGrrrR]

It appears to be enough for Indian and Chinese immigrants. Do you think the same formula might work for others?

Sure, I would say a strong work ethic is a great starting point. I don't think that's necessarily the stopping point. You need some luck, some resources, etc etc.

[LnGrrrR]

I get the prejudice argument, but that's outdated except for a small percentage of employers. Why are you in favor of harming the majority because of the minority?

Employers want to hire the best they can find. they are profit motivated. If you think racism trumps profit with more than just a small percentage of employers, then I suggest you stop being so biased and ignorant. Search out some truth.

Where's your proof that said thinking is outdated? Do you think racism/bias no longer exists?

I agree that racism is much less prevalent. However, wealth built up from times when it WAS prevalent is still around.

[Wild Cobra]

In a sense, yes, though I don't see affirmative action necessarily as a "wrong". If everything truly were equal, of course it'd be wrong. But they're not. How else do you explain the disproportionate numbers of wealthy whites vs wealthy minorities? Culture?

Culture is a large part of it. When someone growing up is constantly told by their parents that all the problems in their life are becasue of "white people," then what dream do they have? Black parents are so often teaching their children that they don't have a chance in life because of their shin color. These kids have no reason to accel, and it's because of their parents. Not beacuse of whites.

Your idea of fairness is like spotting someone 50 yards in a 100 yrd dash, and then demanding both sides start at the same time, and wondering why the person without the headstart is complaining since both can run equally fast.

Bad example. I would say that white and black kids both have the same chances if they both take education with the same level of seriousness. Now I will agree that black kids often because of the communities they live in are less educated. Again, that is a problem of their community culture, different types of peer pressure, etc. The hard facts are that nobody should be given preferential treatment. Again, in doing so, you are making the statement that they are not as good as others, and need to be spotted that 50 yards.

It is you that wants to spot someone. Not me.

[Wild Cobra]

Note: Individually, white person A may have the same advantages as minority person B. But overall, access to wealth is far greater in the majority (ie. white), and wealth is usually a factor in education, which is a factor in future wealth.

Even with Pell grants?

Come on. Is that the best you have?

[ElNono]

The kid is obviously guilty that he was born on certain community. His poor parents should have simply moved to a different community with better education standards.

[Wild Cobra]

Where's your proof that said thinking is outdated? Do you think racism/bias no longer exists?

I agree that racism is much less prevalent. However, wealth built up from times when it WAS prevalent is still around.

I would say that racism is perceived far more than real. Prejudice is greater, and employers use prejudice to select all new hires. Vocabulary, previous employment, etc. The hard facts are if someone talks like they are from the hood, they aren't likely to get a very good job. Is it the white mans fault they speak Ebonics, or their culture?

[Wild Cobra]

The kid is obviously guilty that he was born on certain community. His poor parents should have simply moved to a different community with better education standards.

His parents should have instilled better values and goals.

[ElNono]

His parents should have instilled better values and goals.

But you're telling us that it's the community they live in that's the culprit. Pick a lane.

[Wild Cobra]

But you're telling us that it's the community they live in that's the culprit. Pick a lane.

Statistically, blacks are disadvantaged. Maybe if they would stop blaming "the man" they could do some self reflection, and improve their communities rom within.

[LnGrrrR]

Black parents are so often teaching their children that they don't have a chance in life because of their shin color.

Could you prove that statement?

Bad example. I would say that white and black kids both have the same chances if they both take education with the same level of seriousness. Now I will agree that black kids often because of the communities they live in are less educated. Again, that is a problem of their community culture, different types of peer pressure, etc.

Really? You don't think that WHERE a black person lives might not be due to wealth? Chris Rock has a great skit that you should listen to regarding where black people live:

The hard facts are that nobody should be given preferential treatment. Again, in doing so, you are making the statement that they are not as good as others, and need to be spotted that 50 yards.

You missed my point entirely. Whites with wealth have, in many cases, already been spotted the 50 yards. Overall, whites have a disporportionate amount of wealth related to overall popuation. Of course if you compare individual runners, then you can have similar situations.

It is you that wants to spot someone. Not me.

I don't necessarily "want" to spot someone, I just recognize the validity of it.

Would you agree or disagree that wealth can be an important factor in "getting ahead"?

Would you agree or disagree that wealth is disproportionately found in the majority (white) as opposed to minorities?

Would you agree or disagree that wealth possessed by the majority may have been collected through unfair practices against minorities?

[ElNono]

Statistically, blacks are disadvantaged. Maybe if they would stop blaming "the man" they could do some self reflection, and improve their communities rom within.

So, everybody that lives in such communities blame "the man"... and kids born in such communities are obviously guilty of being born there.

Also, if you agree that statistically black are disadvantaged, then you agree that the non-blacks have an inherent advantage.