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I never read anyone saying that Nazr should be left off the roster...you are delusional as always.
The only debate on the roster was Brown vs Marks.
Both sides had merit, and it looks like it did not matter anyway.
Once I figure out how to get my word count down
Time will tell is Nazr joins the club of players who took less to become/remain Spurs. It's pretty astounding when you think about how many did just that -- can't be out of the realm of possibility with Nazr.
I never read anyone saying that Nazr should be left off the roster...you are delusional as always.
The only debate on the roster was Brown vs Marks.
Both sides had merit, and it looks like it did not matter anyway.
Hmm... let's see. So if Pop had actually gotten Chris Webber a few years ago and Big Dave had decided it was one insult too many ... would you be saying, "David is a Knick. him"???
I hate fans like you. Love the team and cheer for anything that makes it a better one. But you have to love the players too.
There was a battle blog and a thread about it. Manny and other argued that Nazr shouldn't be on the playoff roster.
Well, if that is true, they are idiots.
Um, thanks.
I'm ready. There is still time left in the current season, you know. Also know that I've got a losing record, so beating me isn't all that difficult.Next season I am gonna do battle blogs and I am going to take great pleasure in whipping your ass for the entire season. You just be ready for it.
But if you're up for it, bring it on. I'll check back tonight.
Once I figure out how to get my word count down...You're gonna wish you had never heard of the word.Word count down? That'll be the day...
Horry can do everything Malik can do only better. That's why the Spurs don't need a jump shooting big man in addition to Tim and Robert. Nazr gives the Spurs options. Pop can go bit with Tim and Nazr at the end of games or he can go smaller with Tim and Rob. Considering that he didn't trust Malik or Rasho to get big minutes at the end of most close games, I'd say that the trade was a success simply because Pop has options now.Malik wouldn't have had the presence under the basket...but he's faster, he can rebound just as well...and he's got a good J contrary to what most people on the forum think...
And Nazr's ability to get offensive rebounds and play good interior defense (in part because he's not undersized) is more valuable to this team than Malik's speed and ability to make one out of every three jump shots. Look at the results. Nazr fits this team perfectly. Rose has his strengths, too. But they don't match what the Spurs need right now.
He could be Jordan and it wouldn't matter. If Pop wasn't going to use him, who cares? He's capable of putting up Duncan numbers very occassionally in the playoffs. He's also capable of turning the ball over a ton. Nazr was advertised as being relatively inconsistent, but I think he's done a good job in that regard. Again, I'll take Nazr's relative consistency over Malik's very occassional Duncan-type game that he wasn't ever going to have anyway in this year's playoffs because Pop would have left him on the bench.And when Malik is on...he's capable putting up Duncan like numbers for a game, in the playoffs, off the bench...he's done it before and from many of the same spots on the court.
You hated this trade from the beginning. Now you're still all pissed off about Malik being traded yet you admit that Nazr has been playing very well. That's funny.Have you been watching Nazr play?
Yes. Good centers make good money. Average or slightly above average centers do not typically make close to max dollars. Raef showed some serious promise and put up numbers that Nazr could only dream of before he signed that contract. He's turned out to be overpaid, but he was getting the job done before he signed that contract.Do you see the kinda of contracts C's get? Look at the contract LaFrentz is on from 3 years ago...
A slight paycut, yes. And Rasho at the time he signed that contract was projected to do what Nazr is doing now. And Rasho isn't making close to the max. And Minny didn't offer him close to the max.Rasho took a pay cut to come here....
Okur's season last year was pretty comparable to what Nazr did this season and what Nazr's doing in the playoffs, at least statistically. Okur is making $7.5 million, and that isn't 'almost the max.' In fact, it's not that much more than half of the max.Look at what Memhet Okur got for being a back up on a high profile team...
This playoff series isn't going to determine what he'll get paid in the future. How he plays next season will determine how much he gets paid. Sure, he could get a little bit of a bump for becoming a known playoff performer, but how he does next year will matter a whole lot more.If we win the le Nazr is going to be able to say he's started against Ben Wallace and won a championship...he's bigger than Wallace and he is a master glassman...on top of that he's blocking shots...he can keep this up against Wallace if he wants...thanks to Duncan.
Yes. That's probably the thing I love the most about his game, and it's one of the few things I didn't like about Malik's game.Do you see the offensive reounding?
True. But only four NBA centers currently make the max or 'close' to the max, and that's counting Antonio Davis, who really isn't a center.. For the purposes of this discussion, I'm considering 'close to the max' to be $10 milliion per season, and I think even that is a liberal definition. For comparison, Duncan made about $14.2 million last season. The max varies depending on years of service, but Nazr's max wouldn't be too much less than that. If you raise the 'almost the max' threshold to $12 million, only Shaq, Big Z, and Antonio Davis made that figure or a greater figure.Every GM in the NBA right now that has a guard oriented team with no rebounding is watching Nazr and getting a hardon...
That's why I don't think Nazr will be getting 'close' to the max. But if you think he's a top-three NBA center, I'll understand.
I don't disagree with all of that, but 'almost the max' is still at bit of a stretch for the reasons I outlined above.They are picturing Nazr cleaning up after their guards and being a tough intimidating presence in the paint capable of holding his own against Ben Wallace...and he's also got a rep for being able to do a better than average job against Shaq...
Every GM in the NBA, that doesn't have " the man" inside for their team, is looking at Nazr and thinking he could be that man for them...
He can't...but he damn sure looks like he could...he's going to be able to say he started for an NBA finalist at worst and champion at best...
He's gonna have a lot of leverage, his agent is going to tell him to get it now because it's the last chance he's going to have to get it all..
I agree with you there. I think there's a good chance he'll leave because the Spurs won't want to pay him even Rasho-type money. Unless, of course, they can move Rasho. And I'll I'm saying is that I'm O.K. with that. If Nazr helps them win a le and continues to play at a high level next season, the Malik trade will still have been a great one. Two playoff runs with Nazr is worth it. And if he leaves, you have to remember that he as acquired for a bench player that Pop didn't like to play. With Rasho being a capable NBA center and the possiblity to Scola coming over, it wouldn't be the end of the world if Nazr left. But it would be better if they could keep him.It could still work out...the Spurs will be able to do a S&T with him if they want...I think he's got major trade value. I am just saying that it's not a given at all that Nazr is going to be a Spur for the rest of Duncan's prime as Aggie was homering on about.
Bwhahahah this thread needs to be moved to the classics instantly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Quote from the original Nazr VS Marks thread(started by me):
http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthre...playoff+roster
I should point out that JimCS50 wanted him IR'ed in that thread(during hte worst of his slump pretty much everyone, including the Spurs brass, was considering it)...but Jim is being facetious now...TPark isn't.
He can't rebound as well and he can't spell anyone on Shaq...Go back and watch last years playoffs...Pop making Horry guard Shaq was cruel and unsual punishment to Horry...and us.
I have never seen anyone look as bad on Shaq as Robert Horry did last year...it was awful.
And it was definitely a mistake to do it for the entire series...Malik could have helped on Shaq and Malone...
Malik will take it to the hole against a Sherman Tank...and he'll get to the line on it better than people realize...
No Malik could have definitely made a difference against LA...he always did before. Signing Horry didn't change that.
Nazr didn't match this team when he got here...and if not for injuries that no one foresaw he never would have this season.r's ability to get offensive rebounds and play good interior defense (in part because he's not undersized) is more valuable to this team than Malik's speed and ability to make one out of every three jump shots. Look at the results. Nazr fits this team perfectly. Rose has his strengths, too. But they don't match what the Spurs need right now.
Bench players are always inconsistent...d be Jordan and it wouldn't matter. If Pop wasn't going to use him, who cares? He's capable of putting up Duncan numbers very occassionally in the playoffs. He's also capable of turning the ball over a ton. Nazr was advertised as being relatively inconsistent, but I think he's done a good job in that regard. Again, I'll take Nazr's relative consistency over Malik's very occassional Duncan-type game that he wasn't ever going to have anyway in this year's playoffs because Pop would have left him on the bench.
I never said I didn't like Nazr or didn't think he could help the team........next season.ed this trade from the beginning. Now you're still all pissed off about Malik being traded yet you admit that Nazr has been playing very well. That's funny.
I hated that trade being done this season in the middle of a le run...and people forget just how badly Nazr was playing before he got forced into the starting lineup due to Duncan and Rasho being injured.
Okur doesn't have Nazr's inside game or toughness or traditional centers game...he also was a backup.season last year was pretty comparable to what Nazr did this season and what Nazr's doing in the playoffs, at least statistically. Okur is making $7.5 million, and that isn't 'almost the max.' In fact, it's not that much more than half of the max.
I don't think you realize the kind of credility that is given to a player that coveted by the Spurs...
For instance...there's a thread over at LakerGround.net where they are discussing a trade for Rasho.
I agree...and I think he's going to do well next season...I always thought that...even in the depths of Nazr sucking...even when I hated the trade.ayoff series isn't going to determine what he'll get paid in the future. How he plays next season will determine how much he gets paid. Sure, he could get a little bit of a bump for becoming a known playoff performer, but how he does next year will matter a whole lot more.
I think he can get a 10 million dollar a year offer and I agree with your definition of close to the max completely...But only four NBA centers currently make the max or 'close' to the max, and that's counting Antonio Davis, who really isn't a center.. For the purposes of this discussion, I'm considering 'close to the max' to be $10 milliion per season, and I think even that is a liberal definition. For comparison, Duncan made about $14.2 million last season. The max varies depending on years of service, but Nazr's max wouldn't be too much less than that. If you raise the 'almost the max' threshold to $12 million, only Shaq, Big Z, and Antonio Davis made that figure or a greater figure.
That's why I don't think Nazr will be getting 'close' to the max. But if you think he's a top-three NBA center, I'll understand.
I don't think he's a top 3 C in the NBA...but I think his game looks so ing awesome when he doesn't have to carry the load or score outside of garbage...the potential is just too much to pass up...
Nazr has the talent to be a top 3 or at least a top 3 in the WC if you ask me...
....he just doesn't have the mindset for it...he's a dominant role player...not a dominant player.
Actually I think Rasho could pull it off too...both of them are talented Centers but they don't have the mindset for it...Rasho is passive that's why will never do it...Nazr isn't passive he's agressive but he can't handle it either.
But Nazr agressivness is going to look good along with his numbers...some team is going to be willing take a chance on him and pay him a lot hoping that he's turned the corner and can be the center piece big for a guard oriented team. I think he will be able to get 10 mil per after next season if that's he wants.
Barry didn't either, you're still on his jock.Nazr didn't match this team when he got here...and if not for injuries that no one foresaw he never would have this season.
The reason you come off looking like a fool in this discussion is because you're still playing the "what if" game and going back to when Nazr was trying to adjust to a new system, new team, new coaches, new city, bad hammy, new home.
Who cares if injuries created the opportunity for Nazr to greatly improve his game? I sure as don't.
The fact of the matter is Nazr is bringing it, when all the haters like yourself were saying he was going to cost us a le because we lost home court, that he couldn't score a bucket to save his life, that he had no post up game (sure didn't have a problem working Ben Wallace over in the post), that he had bad hands (that was my particular favorite, you citing some dumb NY bulletin board people who hadn't seen good ball in the last 6 years), etc.
To be fair, TPark wanted Nazr IRed to fully heal his groin.
I don't see how that offsets 8 pages of Marks instead of Nazr on the playoff roster.
This thread Is so stupid just like the head who started It!
Anyway, I have been a huge Malik fan for quite some time and I love my SPURS. At first It kind of sucked to see that Malik was traded but I got over It because we need to concentrate on what's best for the whole team not just for one guy. Sorry to say but the trade was for the best!
Nazr Is doing great with the Spurs and I'm sure Malik Is happy where he Is now.
Man comapring Horry to Malik is a freaking joke, last time I checked I think Horry had 5 rings and Mailik had 2. I have NEVER seen Malik hit a game winning shot EVER, now if you were a coach and would rather have Malik than Horry something is wrong with you.
True Horry on Shaq was not a good idea, and yes maybe Rose would have done better. But saying that Malik drives to the basket aganist a sherman tank?? he will get rejected before he gets a shot off. As for Horry he helps
so much on offense more than Malik can.
Believe me if I was a coach and I was forced to have Malik on my team I would keep him off the playoff roster or make him my last guy off the bench.
He just got lazy after a big contract.
To be fair...the entire thread was based on his injury and the unlikley hood that he would be able to get into the rotation that late in the season, and therefore he would be a huge liability...
To be fair it took TPark 8 pages to get the point I was making on the very first freaking page.
He's just as much of an idiot anyone else was at that point...
To be fair...that thread was before Rasho got injured and Nazr was forced to get minutes, to be fair, at that point Brent Barry was getting minutes at PF rather than Nazr being put on the court...that's how bad he was.
And to be fair...Marks was outplaying Nazr.
If I had seen one of you tools correctly predict Duncan and Rasho would get injured and the Spurs would have their balls put in a vice to play Nazr...you might be able to claim scoreboard.
But that wasn't what you guys were doing...what you guys were doing was just plain stupid.
You asked who should be on the playoff roster.
We chose Nazr.
What's stupid about that?
You chose Marks.
And if we had traded Jack away for Brent Barry in the middle of the best season in Spurs history and when we were a game out of the best record in the NBA, I would have ripped the Spurs for doing that too...
No, I am not doing that...did I start this thread? Go find the last time I started a thread about it...I am responding to someone stuck in the past and pissing the truth on your little hate fest.The reason you come off looking like a fool in this discussion is because you're still playing the "what if" game and going back to when Nazr was trying to adjust to a new system, new team, new coaches, new city, bad hammy, new home.
Go do it...back it up...
What I am doing here is destroying the Malik haters trying to rewrite history and act like he was piece of and not a key piece to two championships.
If you can't see that...it's because you are a ing Aggie and I can't help it.
I do...I am glad we had the injuries now...we'd have been royally ed if we hadn't.Who cares if injuries created the opportunity for Nazr to greatly improve his game? I sure as don't.
The fact of the matter is Nazr is bringing it, when all the haters like yourself were saying he was going to cost us a le because we lost home court, that he couldn't score a bucket to save his life, that he had no post up game (sure didn't have a problem working Ben Wallace over in the post),
Why are you dwelling on 3 months ago Aggie? Could you kick your own any worse?
that he had bad hands (that was my particular favorite, you citing some dumb NY bulletin board people who hadn't seen good ball in the last 6 years), etc.
He does have bad hands...he doesn't have a ing jump shot...and I am still not comfortable with him doing anything on offense other than dunking....
You need to get out of the past Aggie and stop dwelling on what was said three months ago...
You go find a thread started by the Rose Lovers... ing about this trade...you'll have go back a long time...
On the flipside...this very thread is clear proof that the Malik haters haven't let it go...Read it from the beginning again..and see who started brining up the past...
And if you are gonna ing do it...I am gonna ing do it.
Yes you did...and if he'd been playing like he was now it would have been a smart thing to do...
Because he was the worst player on the team at that time. And he was injured and he wasn't going to get any substantial PTfor the rest of the season at that time...He damn sure wasn't going to start.What's stupid about that?
You chose Marks.
And if the playoff roster had been set at that time I would have been stupid in hindsight...unfortunately for you by the time the playoff roster was set I no longer felt that way because Nazr no longer sucked and was no longer being outplayed by Marks...it's amazing how that works isn't it?
Yeah, your hindsight is amazingly accurate.
Your complete lack of faith in Nazr's ability to improve is well do ented. You didn't think Barry could do any better when he sucked as well. At least you are consistent.
99% of his bull IS hindsight.
His continued sucking and BSing about Brent Barry shows his intelligence level.
The combination of Nazr, Horry and Rasho is what Pop needs now. The combination of Malik, Horry and Rasho didn't allow either Malik or Horry to get in a solid rotation. So I love Malik, but as it's turned out, the trade was the right thing to do.
Would a Rasho-for-Nazr trade have worked better? With Nazr stealing the starting job and Malik ready to come off the bench for impact minutes instead of Rasho? I think you can make that case.
We're in good shape now, and Whott is making a great case that Malik was an important part of both Championships.
So, looking to the future, as Horry gets older and Rasho continues to be weak on the offensive put-backs:
Would you rather have a Nazr, Horry (getting old) and Rasho (no put-backs) combination in the rotation?
Or would you rather have a Nazr, Malik (bargain buy, occasional difference maker) and Horry combination?
It really wouldn't be an option until about two years from now when Malik's opt-out clause kicks in.
I'd rather have the first combination. If Duncan is going to play power forward, it's going to be much more advantageous to have two capable centers instead of one capable center and three power forwards.
What do I prefer? Duncan, Nazr, Horry, Rasho, and Scola. Don't forget about Luis. There is a good chance he'll be on the team next year.
Even if there is such a clause, you'll have a tough time convincing me Malik would opt out. There are about 14 million reasons why he wouldn't.It really wouldn't be an option until about two years from now when Malik's opt-out clause kicks in.
That is the truth......he just about wrecked the CBA and he'll do the same with the K-nicks. God bless him for that.
But not as impressive as your foresight...You were saying it wouldn't really matter whow as getting minutes behind Duncan, Horry and Rasho...
Go yourself. Don't you even act like you saw it coming...You wanted an injured and ty player kept on the roster...that's what you wanted.
Watching Nazr drop behind Mike Wilks in the C rotation will do that to me...Your complete lack of faith in Nazr's ability to improve is well do ented.
Too bad Rasho and Duncan didn't get injured when Malik was here...maybe then the board wouldn't be so stupid...
Wrong...I knew what Barry could and can still do...I wasn't the one calling him a gutless pussy after he hit game winning shots or saying he was afraid to shoot after he lead the team in 3PA's off the bench and took more than any bench player has in 7 years...[You didn't think Barry could do any better when he sucked as well. At least you are consistent.
I also wasn't and am still not, the ing tool that thinks teams are willingly leaving the 17th best 3 shooter in NBA history open 15 times a game.
Just shut the up...this is typical of you.
Tpark in the post is better than Malik and Rasho.
WTF?
This topic is stupid.
LMAO...calling your ownself out makes you a dumbass of rare caliber. Never question the intelligence of anyone else...not even a vegetable.
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