My greatest power forwards of all-time list.

[FkLA]

This is classic revisionist history. Sloan was never a great defensive coach or anything. The Jazz were an above average defensive team but never an elite defensive team. Sloan's system was offense first.

The 1998 Jazz for example had the 17th best defensive rating in the NBA:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/UTA/1998.html

Not saying that those Jazz teams were the Spurs or Pistons defensively, obviously they lacked an interior defensive presence...but defense was a part of the system. It wasnt a complete afterthought like it was with D'Antoni's Suns. Those Jazz teams were good enough defensively to win, above average is good enough to win a le (just not against the GOAT):

09' Lakers-13th opp PPG, 6th Def Rating
10' Lakers-9th opp PPG, 4th Def Rating
11' Mavs-10th opp PPG, 8th Def Rating

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

It went from being a "big part" of their system to being a "part" of their system. I can see the goal posts moving already.

That re ed G.O.A.T. argument only applies for the 1997 season and 1998 season. In 1997, they had the 9th best defensive rating, and in 1998 they had the 17th best defensive rating. It's revisionist history to say Jerry Sloan ever emphasized defense. You already backtracked on your original statement.

As far as the teams you listed, those teams you listed didn't the pick and roll (the most gimmicky play in basketball history) to score points. They had a dominant iso scorer who could get the team big shots when they needed them. Teams like the D'antoni Suns and the Sloan Jazz always choked in the 4th quarter because they were too reliant on the pick and roll. Jerry Sloan was a glorified Mike D'antoni and nothing more. the PG and PF pick and rolling to inflate your regular season win total, then fall short in the playoffs against good defensive teams capable of defending the pick and roll.

[Ashy Larry]

The first le the Jazz lost to the Bulls was expected .......

The second one was a complete choke:

Pippen - bad back
Harper - s of himself and sick during the series
Kukoc - lol

Mike shot brutally and carried them to that le.

Jazz with home court and all that going against the Bulls and still lose. Wasn't a good performance for the Mailman and Co.

[JoeTait75]

anyone who glorifies Webber

I don't think I'm "glorifying" Webber. It just seems that the first things brought up in any discussion of Webber are negative, which is a little unfair. He was a great player and the failures of the early 2000's Kings aren't 100 percent on him, not even close.

[Lincoln]

Crofl at FkLA saying the 11 mavs playoff compe ion wasnt anything special

They were chosen by many experts to lose every playoff series and the amount of all stars Dallas had to play was ridiculous.

Lol as much as LA sucked, they were still the 2 time defending champions, had a top 5 PF and Kobe mutha ing Bryant. OKC had two athletic all stars and Miami had 2 of the best players in the game and a solid all star in Bosh. So at FkLA

[Koolaid_Man]

Crofl at FkLA saying the 11 mavs playoff compe ion wasnt anything special

They were chosen by many experts to lose every playoff series and the amount of all stars Dallas had to play was ridiculous.

Lol as much as LA sucked, they were still the 2 time defending champions, had a top 5 PF and Kobe mutha ing Bryant. OKC had two athletic all stars and Miami had 2 of the best players in the game and a solid all star in Bosh. So at FkLA

say it again... The more Mav fan denigrate Kobe the more watered down their le... So this is welcome news Lincoln...

[FkLA]

It went from being a "big part" of their system to being a "part" of their system. I can see the goal posts moving already.

That re ed G.O.A.T. argument only applies for the 1997 season and 1998 season. In 1997, they had the 9th best defensive rating, and in 1998 they had the 17th best defensive rating. It's revisionist history to say Jerry Sloan ever emphasized defense. You already backtracked on your original statement.

As far as the teams you listed, those teams you listed didn't the pick and roll (the most gimmicky play in basketball history) to score points. They had a dominant iso scorer who could get the team big shots when they needed them. Teams like the D'antoni Suns and the Sloan Jazz always choked in the 4th quarter because they were too reliant on the pick and roll. Jerry Sloan was a glorified Mike D'antoni and nothing more. the PG and PF pick and rolling to inflate your regular season win total, then fall short in the playoffs against good defensive teams capable of defending the pick and roll.

Defense was an emphasis. The fact that they werent a dominant defensive team doesnt change that. They lacked that dominant interior presence on D, but it was still emphasized and like you said they were above average. So comparing it to D'Antoni's system, were defense was a complete afterthought and whos teams werent just not dominant defensively but were horrible...is re ed. Those Jazz teams were good enough, they ran through the West and gave the Bulls a good fight especially in 98'. Its not like they got completely dominated like the Suns year after year, these s actually had a legit chance at winning. It could even be argued that they beat themselves tbh, especially in 98' like Ashy said.

Crofl at FkLA saying the 11 mavs playoff compe ion wasnt anything special

They were chosen by many experts to lose every playoff series and the amount of all stars Dallas had to play was ridiculous.

Lol as much as LA sucked, they were still the 2 time defending champions, had a top 5 PF and Kobe mutha ing Bryant. OKC had two athletic all stars and Miami had 2 of the best players in the game and a solid all star in Bosh. So at FkLA

My MD, the fact that the Mavs werent expected to win it all doesnt change the fact that none of those teams they beat were great/legendary teams. The Lakers were the defending champs but they were clearly on the decline and they werent even that dominant to begin with, even at their peak they werent on Jordan's Bulls or even the Shaq&Kobe's Laker's level. The Cheat just werent ready yet, the Mavs and the rest of the league will be ed once they figure their out.

[nowhereman523]

Lebron, Wade, Bosh, Durant, Westbrook, Kobe, Pau. 7 of the top 10/15 players in the league right there. 7 up, 7 down, many of them in or around their peak.

Sweeping an intact defending champion in the 2nd round without homecourt, destroying a young team with 2 all-nba'ers in the WCF... Being insanely clutch against the most hyped team ever with a two time MVP, the best defense in the league, and prohibitive favorite in the finals. Only one all-star on the team, the second best player on the team injured, the star prospect injured all year, a starting PG that's almost 40, a backup PG that's 5'8", having Ian Mahinmi and Brian Cardinal and Deshawn Stevenson playing important minutes in the NBA finals.

Then list 3 harder championship roads. Then take that list, crumble it up, and throw it away, because it's worthless and wrong.

[Lincoln]

Not to mention JJ ing Barea starting at SG for the Games 4, 5, and 6

5'8 player starting at SG in the finals

[JoeTait75]

Again, underrating Dirk's supporting cast. Look, that was a deep, smart, experienced team. Lot of very good players. Role players, yes, but good players. Dirk didn't have to do it alone and I think he'd be the first to say that.

[DMC]

Crofl at FkLA saying the 11 mavs playoff compe ion wasnt anything special

They were chosen by many experts to lose every playoff series and the amount of all stars Dallas had to play was ridiculous.

Lol as much as LA sucked, they were still the 2 time defending champions, had a top 5 PF and Kobe mutha ing Bryant. OKC had two athletic all stars and Miami had 2 of the best players in the game and a solid all star in Bosh. So at FkLA

They were chosen by many Mavs fans here to lose as well.

I saaaaaiiiiiiiiiidddd.

[nowhereman523]

Again, underrating Dirk's supporting cast. Look, that was a deep, smart, experienced team. Lot of very good players. Role players, yes, but good players. Dirk didn't have to do it alone and I think he'd be the first to say that.

2-7 without Dirk, including when Butler was healthy.

[JoeTait75]

2-7 without Dirk, including when Butler was healthy.

So what?

[JoeTait75]

So that team was terrible without Dirk.

a.) Every team is going to be worse off without its best player.

b.) The supporting cast is tailored around Dirk. Doesn't mean it's a bunch of scrubs.

c.) Terrible teams with one good player end up like Minnesota with Garnett, or Cleveland with LeBron, or Orlando with Dewey Howard. They don't win NBA Championships in decisive fashion.

Also, it's funny how some of you run down Dirk's supporting cast yet talk about Caron Butler like he's the second coming of Christ. My guess is if Tuff Juice had been healthy he'd have been just another member of Dirk's " ty" supporting cast.

[JoeTait75]

We didn't win it in a decisive fashion. Every series except the lakers series was a very tough battle that could have gone both ways. We had to fight our way back into many games from behind double digits...it took a lot of heart to fight back and win all those close games. lmao "in a decisive fashion"

Dallas went 16-7, won three elimination games on the road, went 7-1 in its last eight road games, swept the two-time defending champions- including a 36-point beatdown in the elimination game- and didn't play a seventh game. I'd call that decisive. Not '83 Sixers or '91 Bulls decisive, but decisive.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

lmao @ a supporting cast that doesn't even have a borderline all star being good

[JoeTait75]

lmao @ a supporting cast that doesn't even have a borderline all star being good

Do bad supporting casts win Championships?

[Jodelo]

a.) Every team is going to be worse off without its best player.

b.) The supporting cast is tailored around Dirk. Doesn't mean it's a bunch of scrubs.

c.) Terrible teams with one good player end up like Minnesota with Garnett, or Cleveland with LeBron, or Orlando with Dewey Howard. They don't win NBA Championships in decisive fashion.

Also, it's funny how some of you run down Dirk's supporting cast yet talk about Caron Butler like he's the second coming of Christ. My guess is if Tuff Juice had been healthy he'd have been just another member of Dirk's " ty" supporting cast.

When Butler was healthy the Mavs were ting all over the NBA.

[JoeTait75]

When Butler was healthy the Mavs were ting all over the NBA.

And when he wasn't healthy they won the NBA Championship.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Do bad supporting casts win Championships?

So them winning a championship does something to change the fact Dirk was the only all star level player on his team? It was one of the worst supporting casts to ever win a championship, a past-his-prime Jason Terry is arguably the worst 2nd option on a championship team of all time.

[JoeTait75]

TBH you would think that a Cleveland fan would know about ty supporting casts..but given how this special breed of actually thinks Lebron had a good supporting cast in Cleveland it proves that you know nothing.

You want to on Dallas's supporting cast to pump up Dirk. I understand.

I know while I watched the Mavericks beat every team in its path on the way to the NBA Championship I was thinking, "Man, these guys really suck!"

I might be a special breed of , but it doesn't take a genius to point to what Dallas did in the playoffs and say, "Scoreboard."

[Jodelo]

If a team has to play Stevenson, Barea, Cardinal and Mahinmi, you know that the supporting cast is awful!

[Lincoln]

The _Allas Mavericks disgust me more than any other team in pro sports history. I actually relocated my family down to Port Arthur because of that team. Ever since Jason Terry punched Michael Finley below the belt, I promised my wife I'd never set foot in that trashy city again. Well, it's been 4 years since then and I'm proud to say I kept my word.

Not only that but I get to root for a team with real class, and that's the San Antonio Spurs. There's a reason we got 4 rings, and those chokers led by _Irk will never see one.

[Axe Murderer]

The Mavs supporting cast just fit well around Dirk. That was the key. Outside of Chandler and maybe Terry, I don't see anybody on the team being able to be as productive on other teams.

I said before the playoffs that they would have to play like the 95 Rockets on offense to win the le. Play through Dirk and have a 2nd man by committee with other guys benefiting from open looks.

Guys like Stevenson/Cardinal only scored when they had open looks because of the double teams on Dirk. That took the pressure off them on offense and allowed them to fit their roles on defense and play to their potential

[ElNono]

after reading the chapter and analyzing the akatsuki leader's objectives, i gotta say i'm impressed by his business model. He's not just going to go out there and pwn everyone. He's actually going to gather allies, form armies, make money, and gradually build himself up into a viable business. Eventually, because he's got his little united nations of little ninja countries backing him, the akatsuki will end up on near equal footing with any of the five great ninja villages. Kinda like how bill gates built up microsoft from the ground up and turned it into a near super monopoly with ridiculous profit.

Meanwhile, orochimaru's chilling in caves still trying to keep up a facade of power although all he really has left is one bargaining chip(sasuke), a non-existant village, and ummm...kabuto. He had a business plan too...only it was a horrible failure because of fraud and mismanagement and ended up profiting him and him alone while leaving everyone else involved to suffer horribly when it failed. And even then, he ended up getting burned by his own short-sighted planning. Kinda like how enron was pretending all was well, while in reality, they were losing billions and their leaders were dumping its stock like crazy while encouraging employees not to panic because nothing was wrong at all. Orochimaru's ambition has little chance of being achieved, because he's got people on his ass already, little actual means to achieving it besides taking over sasuke(hey, even enron had a last grasp of possibly surviving before ultimately being shutdown)...but then what? He's still going to have people on his ass and it's just him and kabuto...and i suppose any sound that survived the invasion of konoha.

So what's my point?

Akatsuki can realistically achieve their goal because they seem to have sound strategy and a leader with a good head on their shoulders. I'm sure they'll build themselves up to the point where the goal is feasible and they're actually in high standing.

Meanwhile, i easily see orochimaru ending up like enron's ceo kenneth lay...

...dying alone on some mountain.

Sorry, if no one understands any of this crap. I just really liked that business model the al came up with.