Cains Message: Not rich? No Job? Blame yourself

[Agloco]

I think we simply disagree on what is the root cause.

But, to your point, no, one generally gains nothing by shotgunning a whole sector and painting them as villains when, in fact, the vast majority of Wall Street businesses play by the rules, employ our workers, and pay the bills.

Point taken. It not an easy picture to disassemble and put together again. They could use a more precise mission statement or whatever you call it.

[Wild Cobra]

It based on precedent. Have you seen a cannon as loose as Cain elected to the highest office in modern times?

I see some similarities to Reagan, in that he says things other politicians will not.

Do you honestly think he's going to win a general election WC?

No. I think he would if he made it to the general election, but I don't think he will win the primaries.

When it comes to the primary elections, and in the states that have open primaries, the democrats will also be voting for the republican nominee. This will probably produce a weak candidate to oppose Obama. It gave the republicans McCain last time. A very poor choice for conservatives to vote for.

[hitmanyr2k]

Just because you vote on that criteria doesn't mean the rest of us do. I like someone who just says as he thinks, instead of always being cautious of word choice.

It's not just word choice. I vote on a higher level of thinking where people don't see things in black and white and are willing to recognize multiple variables to a problem. What Cain said struck me as a person in his own little world ignorant of what people are actually going through in this country whether they're employed or not. I have no problem with one speaking his mind but what he said was just plain dumb.

[Yonivore]

Point taken. It not an easy picture to disassemble and put together again. They could use a more precise mission statement or whatever you call it.

Of course, I would suggest they take their grievances to the proper person or, better yet, go to work and start contributing to society instead of sucking the life out of every productive member that pays their taxes and fuels the economy that provides them the luxury to stand around Wall Street for days on end.

[Wild Cobra]

It's not just word choice. I vote on a higher level of thinking where people don't see things in black and white and are willing to recognize multiple variables to a problem. What Cain said struck me as a person in his own little world ignorant of what people are actually going through in this country whether they're employed or not. I have no problem with one speaking his mind but what he said was just plain dumb.

I disagree.

I think Cain knows better than you.

Life, in one way or another, is always throwing obstacles at us. I have found that generally, the people who blame others, instead of saying to themselves "what can I do to overcome this" don't get very far in life.

I'm pretty sure that Cain has had some huge obstacles he had to get past in his life. Especially his early life, when there was real racism rather than this pussy ass perceived racism.

[hitmanyr2k]

I disagree.

I think Cain knows better than you.

Life, in one way or another, is always throwing obstacles at us. I have found that generally, the people who blame others, instead of saying to themselves "what can I do to overcome this" don't get very far in life.

I'm pretty sure that Cain has had some huge obstacles he had to get past in his life. Especially his early life, when there was real racism rather than this pussy ass perceived racism.

Until Cain knows what every single one of those protesters have been through, if they have a job or not, or exactly what they're angrry about in the first place he really doesn't know and shouldn't speak as if he does. Refusing to acknowledge the problems that got the country to this state is ignorant. Both sides (U.S. citizens and wall street) have major problems...not just one.

[Yonivore]

Until Cain knows what every single one of those protesters have been through, if they have a job or not, or exactly what they're angrry about in the first place he really doesn't know and shouldn't speak as if he does. Refusing to acknowledge the problems that got the country to this state is ignorant. Both sides (U.S. citizens and wall street) have major problems...not just one.

I disagree, U.S. Citizens and Wall Street have the same, singular problem; government.

[Wild Cobra]

Until Cain knows what every single one of those protesters have been through, if they have a job or not, or exactly what they're angrry about in the first place he really doesn't know and shouldn't speak as if he does. Refusing to acknowledge the problems that got the country to this state is ignorant. Both sides (U.S. citizens and wall street) have major problems...not just one.

Nobody is saying we don't have problems. Time protesting is time lost for looking for work though, right? What good does protesting the vast ins ution of "wall street" do instead of the specific corporations to blame?

Focus people, focus!

[Wild Cobra]

I disagree, U.S. Citizens and Wall Street have the same, singular problem; government.

LOL...

Ain't that the truth. And liberals keep wanting more government, not realizing that is the problem and not the solution.

[djohn2oo8]

LOL...

Ain't that the truth. And liberals keep wanting more government, not realizing that is the problem and not the solution.

Less regulation = more corruption

[Yonivore]

Less regulation = more corruption

Really? Politicians regulate to enrich themselves and pander to voting groups they hope to attract to the polls next election.

Why did the UAW deserve preferential treatment, over legitimate investors, in the bankruptcy of GM?

How did Obama's campaign bundler get moved ahead of others in the Solyndra bankruptcy?

Why is Christopher Dodd real estate rich?

Why do so many legislators go to Washington of relatively normal wealth, and leave millionaires?

, the list is too long...

Government regulation fosters corruption. Government regulation is the root of corruption.

Market compe ion will weed out the corrupt businessmen easier than voters appear to be rooting out the corrupt politicians.

Of what kind of corruption are you concerned? Unlike the government, private companies cannot take your money by force. You have to voluntarily engage in commerce (well, unless Obama's individual mandate passes cons utional muster the, all bets are off). You don't have to deal with a corrupt business.

And, if they're doing something illegal, there are laws to hold them accountable. But, I would argue it should only be illegal to dishonestly separate you from your money and to collude with others, over a finite resource, to artificially inflate prices.

[Wild Cobra]

Less regulation = more corruption

Who watches the watchers?

The payoffs just get bigger.

Besides, it's not enforcement i speak of as much as stupid regulations and excessive government. We need sensible regulations. Just not all we do have.

[Agloco]

Of course, I would suggest they take their grievances to the proper person or, better yet, go to work and start contributing to society instead of sucking the life out of every productive member that pays their taxes and fuels the economy that provides them the luxury to stand around Wall Street for days on end.

I'm thinking if that were possible, the need for protests and Cains Cannoneering would be obviated no?

So we're back to square one.

[Agloco]

I see some similarities to Reagan, in that he says things other politicians will not.

Reagan had a scalpel in his hand though. Cain has a hatchet.

No. I think he would if he made it to the general election, but I don't think he will win the primaries.

How many drinks have you had since lunch?

[Wild Cobra]

Reagan had a scalpel in his hand though. Cain has a hatchet.

That may be a correct analogy, but just the same. I like hearing a politician say things that are not controlled by handlers.

How many drinks have you had since lunch?

None.

Maybe that's my problem?

Haven't had any weed for a couple years either. Maybe I need to mellow out?

[Yonivore]

I'm thinking if that were possible, the need for protests and Cains Cannoneering would be obviated no?

So we're back to square one.

It is possible. The newspaper is full of help wanted ad every day. My seventeen year old went out and found a job in about three days.

If you're willing to work, there's a job for you.

[boutons_deux]

"If you're willing to work, there's a job for you."

YOU LIE

[baseline bum]

Reagan had a scalpel in his hand though. Cain has a hatchet.



How many drinks have you had since lunch?

Counting the current one?

[Agloco]

It is possible. The newspaper is full of help wanted ad every day. My seventeen year old went out and found a job in about three days.

If you're willing to work, there's a job for you.

That's great Yoni. I'm truly glad for your 17 year old.

Now how about that student who has 90k in debt after finishing his masters? You think he would be selected for that job your 17 year old just got? If he was, do you think his bills would be covered?

Lets discuss the kinds of jobs that are available.

[Agloco]

None.

Maybe that's my problem?

Haven't had any weed for a couple years either. Maybe I need to mellow out?

I'm just saying. Cain probably doesn't work for most people, even after a six pack.

[Yonivore]

That's great Yoni. I'm truly glad for your 17 year old.

Now how about that student who has 90k in debt after finishing his masters? You think he would be selected for that job your 17 year old just got? If he was, do you think his bills would be covered?

Maybe he should have majored in a job that was in demand. But, in any case, any job pays more than standing in the street.

Lets discuss the kinds of jobs that are available.

The paying kind.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Exactly what did Wall Street do?

Pay their CEOs too much? It's their money...Oh, and I seem to remember posting an article that pointed our the compensation packages for the top 25, of the Fortune 500 companies, did not amount to the more than $500 million dollars the Obama administration threw down the Solyndra money pit.

Not pay enough in taxes? Government constructed the tax code and businesses would do their stockholders a disservice to throw away money when they are playing by the rules that have been dictated.

Took TARP money? I seem to remember there was a meeting, during the Bush administration, where his Treasury Secretary, Paulson, current Treasury Secretary Tim Geigthner, FDIC Chair Sheila Blair, and Fed Chair Ben Bernanke strong-armed Wall Street Banks into taking TARP money. I said, at the time, they should have let the banks fail.

And, another thing, the "Occupy Wall Street" protests are doing less to big business than they are to the thousands of not-so-rich Wall Street employees just trying to eke out a living like the rest of us.

Well lets see.

1) They initially via Gramm and Clinton in 1996 wrote the legislation that gutted the Glass Steagal Act that FDR put in place.

2) Destroyed the housing market buy turning mortgages into 'investments' so that they could pass them off as speculation which caused the housing crisis.

3) Systematically lobbied the tax codes since the late 1970s campaign finance deregulations such as to make them a joke.

4) Leech 3% or so off of every 'credit' transaction off of vendors while charging high interest to borrowers and systematically trying to marginalize cash transactions as to try and get a stranglehold on the US means of exchange. this alone has a huge parasitic effect on the US economy.

5) Stymied any attempt to recoup the up that Gramm and Clinton did 15 years ago by delaying, delegating and marginalizing any attempt of reregulation.

6) The largest bout of corporate welfare that i can think of that resulted in no net gain in the economy. Lending never picked up so it was an absolute waste of money on the part of the American taxpayer.

7) Marginalized entrepreneurs and industry the country over by dominating the method of exchange. high interest and still demands a high level of control. Anyone that has ever tried a high tech startup knows exactly what I am talking about.

8) Made consumer confidence tied to the stupid popularity contest that is the DowJones and then been the driving force behind the gross inflation of the stock values. 15:1 dividend ratios are considered good nowadays. Bloated bull .

Thats just off the top of my head im sure that there is more but I think thats a good start.

[Yonivore]

Well lets see.

1) They initially via Gramm and Clinton in 1996 wrote the legislation that gutted the Glass Steagal Act that FDR put in place.

Sounds like a government action.

2) Destroyed the housing market buy turning mortgages into 'investments' so that they could pass them off as speculation which caused the housing crisis.

See The Community Reinvestment Act and it's amendments. Oh, and check in with ACORN. They caused the mortgage industry to seek risk offsets that ended up failing.

3) Systematically lobbied the tax codes since the late 1970s campaign finance deregulations such as to make them a joke.

Sounds like a government function.

4) Leech 3% or so off of every 'credit' transaction off of vendors while charging high interest to borrowers and systematically trying to marginalize cash transactions as to try and get a stranglehold on the US means of exchange. this alone has a huge parasitic effect on the US economy.

All pursuant to agreements signed by all parties.

I don't use credit cards; neither should you.

5) Stymied any attempt to recoup the up that Gramm and Clinton did 15 years ago by delaying, delegating and marginalizing any attempt of reregulation.

Again, sounds like you're describing a government failure.

6) The largest bout of corporate welfare that i can think of that resulted in no net gain in the economy. Lending never picked up so it was an absolute waste of money on the part of the American taxpayer.

Government.

7) Marginalized entrepreneurs and industry the country over by dominating the method of exchange. high interest and still demands a high level of control. Anyone that has ever tried a high tech startup knows exactly what I am talking about.

Business attempts to beat out compe ion. Wow, what an evil concept. If they break any laws, prosecute.

8) Made consumer confidence tied to the stupid popularity contest that is the DowJones and then been the driving force behind the gross inflation of the stock values. 15:1 dividend ratios are considered good nowadays. Bloated bull .

Legal or not? I'm not sure to what you're referring.

Thats just off the top of my head im sure that there is more but I think thats a good start.

Business is self-interested and acting within the law. Okay.

[Bill_Brasky]

It is possible. The newspaper is full of help wanted ad every day. My seventeen year old went out and found a job in about three days.

If you're willing to work, there's a job for you.

Oh wow

$8/hr jobs dont cut it when youre a college grad with 50k+ of debt.

Lol thinking these people are lazy or uninspired when theyre standing up for what they believe in instead of sitting on a couch collecting welfare/unemployment. They just want a fair shake, same as you and I.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Sounds like a government action.


See The Community Reinvestment Act and it's amendments. Oh, and check in with ACORN. They caused the mortgage industry to seek risk offsets that ended up failing.


Sounds like a government function.


All pursuant to agreements signed by all parties.

I don't use credit cards; neither should you.


Again, sounds like you're describing a government failure.


Government.


Business attempts to beat out compe ion. Wow, what an evil concept. If they break any laws, prosecute.


Legal or not? I'm not sure to what you're referring.


Business is self-interested and acting within the law. Okay.

Having had friends that have been senatorial aids as well as working for various PACs just goes to show you have no idea how laws are contrived and negotiated. If you thin that Gramm's office drew up the draft that ended up in law then you are pretty dumb.

You clearly have no idea how PAC's and lawmaking synergize. Then again its like your trying to pass it off as completely out of the financial industry's hands.

Do you think that our reps get their political will from their cons uents? Are you really that naive?