Schiavo Autopsy Released

[Jekka]

2. Thanks to sex ed in schools, the girl is informed about the risks of pregnancy, and makes the choice to become pregnant. They're called "consequences".[/url]

I think the fact that you're referring to pregnancy as a negative "consequence" is pretty awful.

[desflood]

Des, you keep trying to pin the things that teenagers are doing on Sex Ed, Liberals, and generaly anyone but the parents and child. Who's next, Maryalin Manson?

If you suppor the rights of an unborn child as an equal, that I can buy. But don't try to sit here and tell me that liberal america is the reason kids are becoming pregnant - as if that were a new thing - today. Don't tell me that allowing women - including those under the age of 18 - the right to choose whether they want to have an abortion or not is a liberal way of forcing their way of life on anyone.

No one forces people to have abortions, but some people do want the option there.

I'm not saying it's the reason, but it's definitely a part of it. And yes, I think that giving my daughter an abortion without my knowledge is an affront to my rights as a parent concerning my child. You've said before everyone has their own definition of freedom. I believe that part of my freedom should include the right to know what is happening in my kids' life. If your daughter was raped, would you want to know? You can't, because of Patient Privacy Acts hospitals have. That wouldn't bother you?

[desflood]

I think the fact that you're referring to pregnancy as a negative "consequence" is pretty awful.

Well, Manny says she shouldn't be "forced" through pregnancy. Doesn't that put a negative spin on it?

[jalbre6]

Yes, I understand it well. Liberal thinking is that children are small adults and can make adult decisions wisely, including decisions about sex and abortion. Conservative (most, anyway) know better, and that's partly why so many oppose that thing that schools call "sex education" and abortions on demand for teenagers.

This is one of the most ignorant, misguided statements I've ever had the lack of fortune to read here.

Conservatives are the most fortunate that schools teach sex education. Because their kids aren't learning about bumpin' uglies at home except on the OC or whatever. Same with drug and alcohol awareness. Telling a high school sop re, "Don't do _______ because the Bible thinks it is a sin, your parents don't approve, and you're not enough of an adult to comprehend what you are doing" is a surefire way to get the opposite result.

LIberal thinking isn't "that children are small adults and can make adult decisions wisely, including decisions about sex and abortion". It is that if they are going to know about sex including the consequences, they should learn in a proper, regulated, state-sanctioned classroom fashion rather than from TV and the magic book your older brother hid in the school library.

I'm not telling you that you're completely wrong, because I should have no say in what you teach your kids about the birds and the bees. But I will tell you that they'll learn one way or another, eventually, and quite possibly in a different manner than you want them to. They always do.

[MannyIsGod]

I'm not saying it's the reason, but it's definitely a part of it. And yes, I think that giving my daughter an abortion without my knowledge is an affront to my rights as a parent concerning my child. You've said before everyone has their own definition of freedom. I believe that part of my freedom should include the right to know what is happening in my kids' life. If your daughter was raped, would you want to know? You can't, because of Patient Privacy Acts hospitals have. That wouldn't bother you?

If my daughter was raped I would hope she wouldn't be forced to do anything else beyond her will, including telling me.

You're free to define you're freedom however you would like, including forcing another person into telling or doing something against their will, but thats not much of freedom.

Also, sex ed has nothing to do with rising teen pregnancy rates. Nothing.

[Jekka]

Well, Manny says she shouldn't be "forced" through pregnancy. Doesn't that put a negative spin on it?

The way I read your statement was that you were using the term "consequence" synonymously with "punishment" - which, in effect, you did, because you're saying it's the girl's fault she got pregnant (despite the fact that there's also a guy in this picture that apparently is getting off scott-free because he doesn't have to carry the child) and therefore she should go through with the pregnancy and not have the abortion option. THAT is using pregnancy as a punishment.

[desflood]

This is one of the most ignorant, misguided statements I've ever had the lack of fortune to read here.

Conservatives are the most fortunate that schools teach sex education. Because their kids aren't learning about bumpin' uglies at home except on the OC or whatever. Same with drug and alcohol awareness. Telling a high school sop re, "Don't do _______ because the Bible thinks it is a sin, your parents don't approve, and you're not enough of an adult to comprehend what you are doing" is a surefire way to get the opposite result.

LIberal thinking isn't "that children are small adults and can make adult decisions wisely, including decisions about sex and abortion". It is that if they are going to know about sex including the consequences, they should learn in a proper, regulated, state-sanctioned classroom fashion rather than from TV and the magic book your older brother hid in the school library.

I'm not telling you that you're completely wrong, because I should have no say in what you teach your kids about the birds and the bees. But I will tell you that they'll learn one way or another, eventually, and quite possibly in a different manner than you want them to. They always do.

Conservatives are the most fortunate that schools teach sex education. Because their kids aren't learning about bumpin' uglies at home except on the OC or whatever. Same with drug and alcohol awareness. Telling a high school sop re, "Don't do _______ because the Bible thinks it is a sin, your parents don't approve, and you're not enough of an adult to comprehend what you are doing" is a surefire way to get the opposite result

That is an ignorant generalization. Conservatives would rather teach their children about sex ed at home, not have it done in the schools. That does not mean they don't talk about it. Not all conservatives are Christian and follow the Bible, either. Open your mind...

[Jekka]

That is an ignorant generalization. Conservatives would rather teach their children about sex ed at home, not have it done in the schools. That does not mean they don't talk about it. Not all conservatives are Christian and follow the Bible, either. Open your mind...

Okay, realistically, how many conservatives who are taking responsibility for teaching their children about sex are going to discuss safe sex and your options? And how many children of these conservative parents are going to go out and have sex anyways? Just because a parent is conservative doesn't mean the child is going to be. Are you saying that if a parent at home doesn't teach a child about safe sex that they don't deserve to know about it?

[desflood]

The way I read your statement was that you were using the term "consequence" synonymously with "punishment" - which, in effect, you did, because you're saying it's the girl's fault she got pregnant (despite the fact that there's also a guy in this picture that apparently is getting off scott-free because he doesn't have to carry the child) and therefore she should go through with the pregnancy and not have the abortion option. THAT is using pregnancy as a punishment.

Well, except for cases of rape, isn't it the girl's fault? She knows she can get pregnant and takes the chance of doing so. Besides, considering the physical, mental and emotional effects of abortion, wouldn't that also be considered more as a punishment that an option?

[jalbre6]

That is an ignorant generalization. Conservatives would rather teach their children about sex ed at home, not have it done in the schools. That does not mean they don't talk about it. Not all conservatives are Christian and follow the Bible, either. Open your mind...

Why shouldn't kids learn about sex in school? I guess I didn't realize that there was that big of a problem with it, especially since Sex Ed has been being taught in many public schools one way or another since the 60's. They're sent there to learn about everything else.

Anyway, here is a good article from NPR containing info on this subject.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=1622610

I particularly enjoyed the paragraph that compares evangelical Christians to the rest of the population near the midsection of the page.

[desflood]

Okay, realistically, how many conservatives who are taking responsibility for teaching their children about sex are going to discuss safe sex and your options? And how many children of these conservative parents are going to go out and have sex anyways? Just because a parent is conservative doesn't mean the child is going to be. Are you saying that if a parent at home doesn't teach a child about safe sex that they don't deserve to know about it?

Well, based upon what I've seen, teenagers from conservative homes have (generally speaking) lower teenage pregnancy rates than teens from liberal homes. So, either conservatives are giving their kids instructions on birth control, or abstinence teaching really does work. As for parents not talking to their kids about sex, they should be shot I remember my sex talk with my parents.

Mom: You know about all that stuff, right?
Me: Yes

End of discussion.

[samikeyp]

I never got the whole thing about Sex Ed making it ok to have sex. I took it and, I guess I was out that day, but I was not once told "Here's your condom bro...now go get it!" It was alot about consequences of your actions and how no form of birth control is 100% safe and that abstinence was still the safest road to take to prevent pregnancy and contracting STD's. , it frightened us more than anything...of course being teenagers, that fear didn't last long. Kids are going to want to have sex whether there is sex ed or not. If your child gets pregnant or gets someone pregnant it is because of their actions and those of who they were with, no one elses. Kids today know the risks and choose to avoid them. If they don't know the risks, then, IMO, the parents are to blame.

[Jekka]

Well, except for cases of rape, isn't it the girl's fault? She knows she can get pregnant and takes the chance of doing so. Besides, considering the physical, mental and emotional effects of abortion, wouldn't that also be considered more as a punishment that an option?

You act like there's not two people involved while having sex. That's like only arresting the hit man and not the person who hired him - the girl is not the only consenting partner in this equation - it upsets me that girls are getting all the flack for this.

[Jekka]

Well, based upon what I've seen, teenagers from conservative homes have (generally speaking) lower teenage pregnancy rates than teens from liberal homes. So, either conservatives are giving their kids instructions on birth control, or abstinence teaching really does work. As for parents not talking to their kids about sex, they should be shot I remember my sex talk with my parents.

Mom: You know about all that stuff, right?
Me: Yes

End of discussion.

I came from a conservative household - I grew up in a house with a clergymember - and know many other people that did - the discussion you had with your mom is about the only thing we got from our parents, too - oh, except for "DON'T DO IT TIL YOU'RE MARRIED because God says no" - so had we not had sex education, how would we be expected to know things? Not to mention, "God says no" is no argument for a teenager who isn't a Jesus Freak - or at least it wasn't for me and most of the people I grew up with. The difference there is being educated as a whole and knowing that there are choices and reprocussions, and here's how you prevent the reprocussions from happening.

[desflood]

You act like there's not two people involved while having sex. That's like only arresting the hit man and not the person who hired him - the girl is not the only consenting partner in this equation - it upsets me that girls are getting all the flack for this.

I know what you mean, but the girl is the one who gets pregnant, not him, which is what makes it her responsibility. About your other post - I daresay conservative parents (even the religious ones) are a bit more realistic nowadays then they were when we were kids. I expect to talk to my kids about sex (my four-year-old is already asking questions). Granted, I'm actually a lot less conservative than my parents are.

[Jekka]

So what about a derogatory name for a religous group? You applying the logic to the Nazi's was not a valid comparrison. When you say "religous right", people get the idea that you are lumping people of faith with the actual nut jobs that you protest.

Chris, the Religious Right is a group of conservatives that choose to vote out of the pulpit and actively encourage others to do so - they know they have this name and agree to it, because that's their name. It's not derogatory, it's just their name. Anything you read about Fundamentalism will bring it up - try reading The Book of Jerry Falwell by Susan Harding - it was really great for background information written from a scholarly perspective.

[Jekka]

I know what you mean, but the girl is the one who gets pregnant, not him, which is what makes it her responsibility. About your other post - I daresay conservative parents (even the religious ones) are a bit more realistic nowadays then they were when we were kids. I expect to talk to my kids about sex (my four-year-old is already asking questions). Granted, I'm actually a lot less conservative than my parents are.

The only reason more conservative parents are talking about it is because of AIDS - in which case, they still say, "don't do it - you could die,"which means very little to a teenager, because they are all immortal, duh.

Anyways, most kids are not going to get a comprehensive sex education at home - and if they aren't given it at school, then all they are hearing is, "don't do it, wait until marriage" - which is dumb, really. Giving a kid all the information and a CHOICE is what makes the biggest difference - and with all the information, they probably either will want to wait or have safe sex - I know women that are waiting, and it's not because their parents told them to, it's because they are informed. Bottom line: don't withhold information. Telling a kid what to do is the first way to ensure that they won't want to do it.

[Guru of Nothing]

- it upsets me that girls are getting all the flack for this.

Are you suggesting that the girl should receive no flack, or that the guy gets some flack too?

[Jekka]

Are you suggesting that the girl should receive no flack, or that the guy gets some flack too?

Oh I'm no femi-nazi - I don't think it's entirely the guy's fault by any means if it was consensual sex - guys can share half the blame.

[Guru of Nothing]

Oh I'm no femi-nazi - I don't think it's entirely the guy's fault by any means if it was consensual sex - guys can share half the blame.

How's this?

[Useruser666]

I was disapointed when they told me there wasn't going to be any lab time in my sex ed class.

[B.AlMighty]

Please. I know what motivates the RR. That wonderful book of stories they have and read out of every Sunday.

A wonderful and beautiful book it is! Is it on your nightstand?

[Jekka]

How's this?

I just have to question a society that says it's the sole responsibility of the girl to say no.

[Useruser666]

I just have to question a society that says it's the sole responsibility of the girl to say no.

So what if it's the girl that's asking to have sex?

[MannyIsGod]

So what if it's the girl that's asking to have sex?

Oh, in that situation it would be all on her.

WTF?


It still takes 2 to tango, dude. Did you not get enough sleep last night?