CP3 to Clippers?

[024]

i hope this is true. cp3 + blake griffin is going to be so sick. i would jump on that bandwagon even though i already support the clippers.

[ElNono]

Exactly my point. The Spurs made good players better, and found diamonds late into the draft and internationally. Why can New Orleans find anyone decent? Maybe being 24th on the team salary explains a lot of it.

Nah, the Spurs had two HoF'ers in the team. One of which is going in history as perhaps the best ever to play in his position. The Spurs FO deserves the credit for not getting in his way, but Tim should get all the credit for not being one of the spoiled es you see today.

Sure, but they are still competing. That's my point. Neal, Hill, Blair, Anderson, all these guys are better than people thought they would be, and no one even thought of Gary Neal.

Uh? Those are all rookie deal guys. And not sure what you mean by "still competing". If you mean playoff bounds, sure. But that has everything to do with the big 3, not the rooks.

Other small markets want to have a champagne operation on a beer budget but you have to have more savvy to operate in a small market and remain profitable/compe ive.

Sorry, it's a rich man's game and I don't buy that it's "unfair".

Well, I made no claim to the fairness of it all. It's just what it is.

Supposedly, this whole lockout had everything to do with balancing the playing field for small market teams. I guess it was all baloney.

That's what the salary cap and increased penalties/revenue sharing is supposed to help control. It's never going to make players want to play in Minnesota however.

Well, the idea is that since players are picking money over winning, they would flock towards those teams that would offer more, and with big markets pretty much packed with star talent, they would be enticed to sign with Minnesota. That was the plan anyways.

He did, but Cuban didn't really want him around for that money anyhow. It's a business first, entertainment second. TC is not overrated as far as his impact to Dallas, but he's overrated as far as his individual ability as a center. He will make NY better, but he's not worth what he wanted.

A guy wins a ring, is told he was the difference maker and suddenly he wants more money. It's not uncommon.

But this is where I flip it on you. If Dallas doesn't win this season, or comes close (ie: WCF), then it's gonna backfire on Cubes, and the argument won't be too different from the one you're making above (inability to keep/put the right pieces around)

Also, Lebron could've made more money by staying Cleveland (or Bosh in Toronto). So money obviously isn't seemingly a factor here either.

This is true, but small markets that try to manage like large markets aren't doing themselves any favors. Who is Dan Gilbert going to get to work for him? No one. Phil Jackson writes a book attacking Kobe and he's invited back and they win 2 rings together. That would never happen in a small market, mostly because no one would read the book, because big name coaches would never go there, and because big name players would never team up there.

It's how the NBA is. At least we aren't dealing with back 2 back threepeats every other cycle.

Well, I don't particularly believe there is or will be parity. But that's what we've been told will happen now, and if you're selling a small market team, you certainly want to make the prospective buyer feel like he's not buying into the Washington Generals.

[Pelicans78]

Hey DMC, the Hornets had a top 5 salary at one point when they had Chandler, West, Peja, CP3, etc. They were approaching the luxury tax until a couple of years ago when they started to dump salaries.

The problem was overpaying on Peja and James Posey, bad draft picks and other bad contracts. They simply blew it and CP3 would have stayed if they were a model franchise. The Hornets have been one of the worst run franchises in the league especially since coming to NOLA. In fact, they've been a stain on the city.

[ChuckD]

Better than nothing I guess. Gordon, Aminu, and Minny's 1st round pick is fair.

That's WAY better than that in the original trade. If Demps can strip it down bare before the season begins without taking on longterm vet contracts, they'll be so bad they could easily have 2 top 5 picks, the Minny one and their own. They would only have to suck for one shortened season before the bounce would begin.

[ChuckD]

FA next season. Lakers can amnesty a bad contract (ie: Turk from the Howard deal), Barnes comes off the books, move World Peace and make some room for him. Dallas has Kidd + Terry (that's nearly $20 million) coming off the books too.

The LAL payroll is like 90M, and Dallas isn't far behind. Even dumping Odom for nothing, and amnestying and roll off contracts isn't getting you down into the low 40s to make a MAX offer.

[m>s]

ty FO cost their chance of making a true contender imho

[Scrub]

Minny pick+Bledsoe+Kaman is a fair offer for Paul. Gordon stays! Hornets can then flip Kaman for another good first round pick and tank the out of the season. Then they're bound to receive at least three good young talents next year. Which is basicaly all you can hope for when rebuilding.

And as I've said some time ago i would LOVE to see Paul in a Clippers uni and Dwight on the Nyets.

Clippers:
Paul/Mo
Gordon
Butler
Griffin
Jordan

Nets:
Deron
Morrow
Kirilenko via Russian Mafia connection for the vet min
Humpries
Dwight

Clippers ting on Lakers and Nets butt in Knicks would make the world a better place imho tbh.

[DMC]

Uh? Those are all rookie deal guys. And not sure what you mean by "still competing". If you mean playoff bounds, sure. But that has everything to do with the big 3, not the rooks.

The only reason there's a "big 3" is because the Spurs found and developed two of them, and put pieces around them to win. Every team could have a big 3 if they held onto players long enough to get there. LA gets a 6th man of the year and right away they trade him to try to get back to the championship. They aren't doing that to remain profitable. They will be profitable regardless. They can just focus on winning rings and they will trade anyone to get there. It wasn't up to Lamar.

Many of the teams in the league might have traded Tim, Tony or Manu years ago.

Duncan deserves a ton of credit, but without pieces like Bowen, they probably don't win a ring. There's been great players go their entire careers with decent pieces and never win a ring. It almost happened to Dirk in fact.

Well, I made no claim to the fairness of it all. It's just what it is.

Supposedly, this whole lockout had everything to do with balancing the playing field for small market teams. I guess it was all baloney.

The lockout was about the owners getting a bigger piece of the pie. They didn't put much in place to force free agents to sign with small market teams. Until that happens, it's not going to be a balanced playing field.

Well, the idea is that since players are picking money over winning, they would flock towards those teams that would offer more, and with big markets pretty much packed with star talent, they would be enticed to sign with Minnesota. That was the plan anyways.

And Minny does have Beasley and Kevin Love, but we are so fixated on the top tier players that we pretty much ignore anyone else.

If Kevin Love was a free agent, he would probably go to a big market. Anything else is basically going against the concept of supply/demand.

But this is where I flip it on you. If Dallas doesn't win this season, or comes close (ie: WCF), then it's gonna backfire on Cubes, and the argument won't be too different from the one you're making above (inability to keep/put the right pieces around)

Naw, you're talking apples and oranges now. Dirk isn't going to leave, and the only reason I mentioned putting pieces around Paul was to keep in him New Orleans, not to ensure a ring. No one can ensure a ring, as Miami found out. Stars want a shot at a ring. Paul has no shot at a ring in New Orleans, none. If they cannot get that shot, some opt for high profile teams and fat contracts instead. This is why I see Paul with the Clippers (especially since they've offered Jordan 10m a year to stick around).

The Mavs will remain compe ive enough to keep it's core. TC had a one year deal. He was probably never going to stick around in Dallas.

Also, Lebron could've made more money by staying Cleveland (or Bosh in Toronto). So money obviously isn't seemingly a factor here either.

Lebron could have made more in salary, but probably not more in total revenue. He needs a ring to continue making top dollar in endorsements. The "up and coming" only lasts for so long before a new face emerges (like Blake). Plus, Lebron wanted to live in South Beach and hang with his buddy. He's a child.

Well, I don't particularly believe there is or will be parity. But that's what we've been told will happen now, and if you're selling a small market team, you certainly want to make the prospective buyer feel like he's not buying into the Washington Generals.

The first thing anyone is going to want to do is look at the numbers. What has the team historically done? New owners want to know what the market is like, they can build a compe ive team if the market is there. There's just no market in New Orleans, at least not enough.

[DPG21920]

Exactly. Flipping a guy like Kaman is easy due to his ability and contract (even with his trade kicker). The Minny pick is unprotected and extremely valuable. That is the true prize along with flexibility. If you can get a young player out of it (Jordan - kills some flexibility, but at least he's young or Bledsoe or Aminu...) that is just gravy IMO.

That Kaman contract along with that Minny pick is really good value and would be a great move for Demps. If they didn't want to gamble on the draft, that Minny pick (along with NO's capspace) would allow for them to trade for a really good player that is proven.

[DMC]

Hey DMC, the Hornets had a top 5 salary at one point when they had Chandler, West, Peja, CP3, etc. They were approaching the luxury tax until a couple of years ago when they started to dump salaries.

The problem was overpaying on Peja and James Posey, bad draft picks and other bad contracts. They simply blew it and CP3 would have stayed if they were a model franchise. The Hornets have been one of the worst run franchises in the league especially since coming to NOLA. In fact, they've been a stain on the city.

They were a good team back then, always compe ive, but maybe not profitable. That's because they don't have the right market. They need to relocate, or just be dissolved.

[DPG21920]

Well, that's the point, if he wants to play he will have to take the pay cut. He will relent and sign with the best team he can in the biggest market for the most money.

[DPG21920]

Dallas is far from set.

[Pelicans78]

They were a good team back then, always compe ive, but maybe not profitable. That's because they don't have the right market. They need to relocate, or just be dissolved.

Its just not true. The franchise has done a horrible job marketing itself in the city. Its really been a horribly run franchise. I'll give you examples where they screwed up.

1) Not changing the name of the team. Hornets brand belongs in Charlotte. There's nothing New Orleans about the name Hornets. They could have rebranded the team to energize the local fan base and establish itself as a symbol for the city.

2) The television contract has been terrible as well. The Hornets aren't even televised every where in the greater New Orleans and in the Gulf South. They're not even televised on Direct TV. Hard to build a fan base if the entire city and region can't watch them.

3) Bad ownership and front office. Shinn was one of the worst owners in the league. He underpaid scouts, front office people and ran the team like Wal-Mart. The team drafted poorly, made poor FA signings and all of a sudden had a top 5 payroll. He built up tremendous debt and it cost them a local billionaire owner who would have bought the team if not for the massive debt ac ulated. That's why the league bought the team to help get rid of the debt and make the franchise more marketable.

When the team is winning, they do draw well. No one in NOLA wants to watch a crap team. Their attendance was strong in the playoff seasons. The hurricane had a short-term effect on the attendance, but they still overcame that in 2007-2008 by selling out games in the 2nd half of the season. That was the first season they returned from OKC.

They've made alot of strides this offseason. The debt is gone, they've established 5-6 brand new corporate sponsorships, they've legitimately sold over 10,000 season tickets. Now they're working on a long-term lease to keep the team in the city and if that happens they will establish an ownership. They also need to dump the Hornets brand and start over with something NOLA people can identify. The Hornets name still identifies with Charlotte and even OKC.

[Giuseppe]

Dallas is far from set.

Just remember, D, you're a Spurs Fan, not a Mavs Fan.

[DMC]

Just remember, D, you're a Spurs Fan, not a Mavs Fan.

The Prediction!!!


Wasn't that for Phoenix? Aren't you a Lakers fan?

[Giuseppe]

The Prediction!!!


Wasn't that for Phoenix? Aren't you a Lakers fan?

& a Suns fan.

It's my religion.

P.S.,,& D was wrong about the players beating the owners. Huge time wrong!

[DMC]

& a Suns fan.

It's my religion.

P.S.,,& D was wrong about the players beating the owners. Huge time wrong!

So your religion is that you aren't held to the same standards you hold others to.

Got it.

[Pelicans78]

& a Suns fan.

It's my religion.

P.S.,,& D was wrong about the players beating the owners. Huge time wrong!

To be honest, the owners didn't win much. No franchise tag, no hard cap, still have guaranteed contracts. A whole lot won't change.

Small market owners need to stop complaining and learn how to run their franchise better.

[Giuseppe]

So your religion is that you aren't held to the same standards you hold others to.

Got it.

Yer capitulation is duly noted.

lmvictoriousao!!!

[Giuseppe]

To be honest, the owners didn't win much. No franchise tag, no hard cap, still have guaranteed contracts. A whole lot won't change.

Small market owners need to stop complaining and learn how to run their franchise better.

3,000 million dollars is a loss. A gargantuan loss!

[DMC]

Yer capitulation is duly noted.

lmvictoriousao!!!

But the Suns weren't, ergo::::: The Prediction!!!

[Giuseppe]

But the Suns weren't, ergo::::: The Prediction!!!

D has nary room. He picked the players over the owners. And was monumentally wrong!

[DPG21920]

3,000 million dollars is a loss. A gargantuan loss!

Uh, uh, you said it was about the system. You said if the players held firm on that, the money wasn't the issue.

I'm not letting you dump the cross you need to bear onto someone else. Not when I'm regulating.

[Giuseppe]

Uh, uh, you said it was about the system. You said if the players held firm on that, the money wasn't the issue.

I'm not letting you dump the cross you need to bear onto someone else. Not when I'm regulating.

I know. D said it. He said the players would triumph over the owners. That ain't what happened. 3,000 million dollars later, D was wrong. Astronomically wrong!

[DPG21920]

No, you said it. Players seem to be moving around and getting big contracts. They fought the system and gave up the money to do it which is what you said would be a win, ipso facto you said the players won. You have no room on this day.