1983 vs. 2004 NFL QB class

[Clipper Nation]

Phyllis Rivers is another example of a guy who puts up huge numbers but will never get a ring

Niners

Alex Smith is a great example of a terrible quarterback who puts up mediocre numbers and will never get a ring...

Yeah, Chargers will ALWAYS fall short...it's just in their make-up. Teams like Buffalo, Detroit, SD, Philly, Cleveland will always be losers...it's just a stink that won't come off those franchises.

Funny how all those franchises have championships, tbh....

[DeadlyDynasty]

Bah I guarantee you Detroit has another winning season this year. Playoffs will be tough, even if they go 10-6 like I think they will. That is still a good year.

Their division is ridiculous. The NFC is going to be really good this year. I think its up in the air who gets in the playoffs.

Detroit was the 3rd best team in that division before Cutler went down last year. 10-6 is nice but they're still a ty franchise. How do you not make a SB in your history? Furthermore, I can only ever remember one NFCCG they've been to (getting slaughtered by Washington in '91).

[DeadlyDynasty]

Niners

Alex Smith is a great example of a terrible quarterback who puts up mediocre numbers and will never get a ring...



Funny how all those franchises have championships, tbh....

Pre-merger...aka, when nobody watched or gave a about the sport.

Next...

[symple19]

Yeah, Chargers will ALWAYS fall short...it's just in their make-up. Teams like Buffalo, Detroit, SD, Philly, Cleveland will always be losers...it's just a stink that won't come off those franchises.

I don't subscribe to that argument.

I think the right combination on any of those teams, coupled with a great year from the QB, and they could be putting a ring on

If I had to pick one of them and say they had a fighter's chance, it would be Detroit.

Buffalo and Cleveland...Jeez. So many hard losses. Elway still owns the city of Cleveland, i think. those two franchises have the most to overcome, imo, despite having some of the best fans on the planet, in any sport

[Flintstones32]

Detroit was the 3rd best team in that division before Cutler went down last year. 10-6 is nice but they're still a ty franchise. How do you not make a SB in your history? Furthermore, I can only ever remember one NFCCG they've been to (getting slaughtered by Washington in '91).

Yes I think it was pretty obvious they were the 3rd best team before Cutler got hurt. This is football. People get hurt. Only thing that matters is your record in the end. Doesn't matter how you got there. Look at the Giants.

The Lions might be the worst franchise in all sports. Doesn't matter. They're not now. History means . Its all about what have you done for me lately.

As a fan of all things Detroit I am excited about the Lions and their future. As well as the Tigers and I like the Pistons young players.

Red Wings seem on the decline even with their "Fantastic" history as a franchise. But that history doesn't mean does it? Its all about now.

[symple19]

Alex Smith is a great example of a terrible quarterback who puts up mediocre numbers and will never get a ring...

I agree

Funny how all those franchises have championships, tbh....

Nobody gives a about pre-merger bull

I still can't believe you referenced some obscure victory over the pats that happened in 1823 while you were arguing with DOK

The stench of delusional homer is wafting off you, bruh

[symple19]

Detroit was the 3rd best team in that division before Cutler went down last year. 10-6 is nice but they're still a ty franchise. How do you not make a SB in your history? Furthermore, I can only ever remember one NFCCG they've been to (getting slaughtered by Washington in '91).

ahhhh, the good ole' run n shoot

memba det?

[DeadlyDynasty]

Yes I think it was pretty obvious they were the 3rd best team before Cutler got hurt. This is football. People get hurt. Only thing that matters is your record in the end. Doesn't matter how you got there. Look at the Giants.

The Lions might be the worst franchise in all sports. Doesn't matter. They're not now. History means . Its all about what have you done for me lately.

As a fan of all things Detroit I am excited about the Lions and their future. As well as the Tigers and I like the Pistons young players.

Red Wings seem on the decline even with their "Fantastic" history as a franchise. But that history doesn't mean does it? Its all about now.

I can appreciate your gung-ho at ude bro, but Detroit--as much as I pull for them to some degree--still has a god-awful secondary that I could probably put up 300 on. Furthermore, I think the Bears are still a better team and more complete team than them. The Packers are obviously better. The Niners, Saints, and Giants are better as well...Detroit is a 2nd-tier team along with Atlanta and Dallas--who have tons of talent but also have glaring holes.

I love Megatron (one of my favorite players) and Stafford is good, but they still have a major hill to climb.

[DeadlyDynasty]

ahhhh, the good ole' run n shoot

memba det?

Erik Kramer was their QB iirc

Cokehead Wayne Fontes was an underrated coach imo

[symple19]

I can appreciate your gung-ho at ude bro, but Detroit--as much as I pull for them to some degree--still has a god-awful secondary that I could probably put up 300 on. Furthermore, I think the Bears are still a better team and more complete team than them. The Packers are obviously better. The Niners, Saints, and Giants are better as well...Detroit is a 2nd-tier team along with Atlanta and Dallas--who have tons of talent but also have glaring holes.

I love Megatron (one of my favorite players) and Stafford is good, but they still have a major hill to climb.

Their front seven has the chance to be dominant, but I agree that if they can't get to the QB then they could certainly be torched.

However, a bright spot from last year is that they forced a ton of turnovers (+11 diff), and I believe that factor made a huge difference in their turnaround (they were 3rd overall)

[symple19]

Erik Kramer was their QB iirc

Cokehead Wayne Fontes was an underrated coach imo

I was thinking Mitc , but you may be right. possible that Mitc didn't come around until a few years later

The Lions were at least compe ive in those days.

Barry Sanders is still up there with Rice/Lott as my favorite players to watch, all-time

I've mos-def got a soft spot for them, unless they're playing the Niners (which they will this year)

[DeadlyDynasty]

Their front seven has the chance to be dominant, but I agree that if they can't get to the QB then they could certainly be torched.

However, a bright spot from last year is that they forced a ton of turnovers (+11 diff), and I believe that factor made a huge difference in their turnaround (they were 3rd overall)

Turnovers are such a static statistic and aren't really an indicator of future defensive success...sometimes it's just the breaks. Look at the Saints defense of 2009 compared to the last 2 years. Not a whole lot of personnel changes (and virtually no schematic changes) at all...the difference is the 2009 team caused a load of TO's.

[The Gemini Method]

I cannot wait until L.A. (if ever...) gets it franchise--Though I enjoy getting to see a mul ude of games w/o a team, it would be nice to have a team to get behind in L.A. Albeit, USC will be nice to cheer on this year.

[symple19]

Turnovers are such a static statistic and aren't really an indicator of future defensive success...sometimes it's just the breaks. Look at the Saints defense of 2009 compared to the last 2 years. Not a whole lot of personnel changes (and virtually no schematic changes) at all...the difference is the 2009 team caused a load of TO's.

good point

I think there will be some consistency because of just how good they are up front, but ultimately, you're right. It's a flooky stat from year to year

[JoeTait75]

Teams aren't "cursed" or doomed to fail. It's just a matter of getting the right people in place in the front office, in the coaching staff and on the roster. Pittsburgh was the worst franchise in the NFL for literally decades before getting it right.

[The Gemini Method]

Teams aren't "cursed" or doomed to fail. It's just a matter of getting the right people in place in the front office, in the coaching staff and on the roster. Pittsburgh was the worst franchise in the NFL for literally decades before getting it right.

Same with the 49ers...

[symple19]

Teams aren't "cursed" or doomed to fail. It's just a matter of getting the right people in place in the front office, in the coaching staff and on the roster. Pittsburgh was the worst franchise in the NFL for literally decades before getting it right.

[DeadlyDynasty]

Teams aren't "cursed"

We of all people know that's not the truth, Joe.

Lake Erie breeds losing.

[Clipper Nation]

Nobody gives a about pre-merger bull

The games were still played and still count regardless of whether or not you give a , tbh....

[symple19]

Lake Erie breeds losing.

still disagree, but funny nonetheless

[DeadlyDynasty]

and their successes were half a century ago...awesome. You've now convinced us all that these aren't losing franchises. Bravo.

[JoeTait75]

We of all people know that's not the truth, Joe.

Lake Erie breeds losing.

In all seriousness, there's a logical explanation for every single thing that has gone wrong with these two franchises. Except maybe the Music City Miracle.

[DeadlyDynasty]

In all seriousness, there's a logical explanation for every single thing that has gone wrong with these two franchises. Except maybe the Music City Forward Lateral.

fify

[J.T.]

Peyton Manning is 22 touchdowns away from erasing Dan Marino's name from this discussion, if he hadn't already done this as early as 2004.

[stretch]

Bottom line, you can't be in the GOAT conversation if you don't have a ring.

Did anyone here say he was the GOAT?

EDIT: I just saw clipper nations reply. But disregard him. He is a got.