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  1. #51
    Nbadan
    Guest
    That's still 40 minutes that he sat there, at a photo op. instead of protecting the nation.

  2. #52
    Spurminator
    Guest
    And for those of you who really give a where Air Force One was going, and why Bush didn't fly directly to Washington or NYC...

    About this time,Card,the lead Secret Service agent,the President’s military aide,and the pilot were conferring on a possible destination for Air Force One. The Secret Service agent felt strongly that the situation in Washington was too unstable for the President to return there, and Card agreed. The President strongly wanted to return to Washington and only grudgingly agreed to go elsewhere.The issue was still undecided when the President conferred with the Vice President at about the time Air Force One was taking off.The Vice President recalled urging the President not to return toWashington.Air Force One departed at about 9:54 without any fixed destination.The objective was to get up in the air—as fast and as high as possible—and then decide where to go.207

  3. #53
    Tommy Duncan
    Guest
    NORAD and the rest (FAA, airlines, etc) are supposed to function automatically in such a situation. That was the real problem on that day. And it's not like the info on which planes were hijacked, the location of those planes, and which planes had crashed was known. The FAA still thought Flight 11 was airborne well after it had crashed into the north WTC tower.

    The way the system was set to deal with a hijacking was to assume that the plane(s) would eventually land.

  4. #54
    Spurminator
    Guest
    That's still 40 minutes that he sat there, at a photo op. instead of protecting the nation.
    No, it's 30.

    Nobody saw a need for him to rush out of there. Not the Secret Service, not the FBI, not the Vice President. It's easy for you to sit here and say what he should have done, but there are people much smarter than you or me advising the President in situations like these.

    The only thing that leaving immediately and signaling for Batman would have done is give you guys one less thing to about... and made F911 a few minutes shorter.

  5. #55
    Spurminator
    Guest
    Wait, scratch that... If Bush had run out of there, F911 and Bush Haters would have had even better video of "cowardly Bush running away from an Elementary School to save his own ass."

  6. #56
    Nbadan
    Guest
    Bush left Florida with no air cover even though there may have been hostile aircraft in the area...

    108) 9:59 a.m.: Air Force One Departs Sarasota-Bradenton International Airport, Sarasota, Florida bound for Washington D.C. Air Force One departed with no extra military protection, even though 2 of the 7 military air stations we had on full alert to protect the continental United States that day were based in Florida. Homestead Air Station in Homestead is 185 miles and the Tyndall Air Station in Panama City is 235 miles from Sarasota.

    These two air stations should have been ordered to scramble their fighters at 8:20 or 8:40 or 8:43 or 8:46:26 or 9:02:54 or at the very least, at 9:24. Flying at top speed, both of these air stations fighters could have been in Sarasota in about 20 minutes to protect Air Force One. Where were the fighters from both of these air stations? Did both of these air stations have something better to do that day than protect Air Force One? Please, this just does not happen.


    Also, is the place to be in the air when there are still hundreds of airliners in the air, and who knew then how many of them were hostile or not?
    911 Timeline

  7. #57
    Yonivore
    Guest
    Uh, Nbadan, correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't there Police, Fire, and EMS personnel responding to the resulting emergencies? And, wasn't the military, as well as the federal law enforcement agencies, also in on the act?

    I'm sorry, exactly what kind of "protecting the nation" are you trying to suggest the President could have done in the time he spent at the school?

    Seems to me the ball was rolling...

    And, not to nitpick -- because I don't think the timespan is important, but he spent an additional 7 minutes with the children and the next 20 minutes or so in a private room at the school being briefed.

    Would you have rather he run from the school in a panic?

  8. #58
    Nbadan
    Guest
    97) 9:45 a.m.: Bush's motorcade leaves the Emma E. Booker Elementary School in Sarasota, Florida headed for Air Force One at the Sarasota-Bradenton International Airport.
    40 minutes.

  9. #59
    Tommy Duncan
    Guest
    Also, is the place to be in the air when there are still hundreds of airliners in the air, and who knew then how many of them were hostile or not?
    Well sure, it's not like Air Force One is some kind of single engine prop plane. Bush's location in Florida was known. He was informed of the attack, his security detail made arrangements, he addressed the nation, and then got the F out of there.

    Spurm is right. No matter what Bush and his posse did that day he would have been attacked for it.

    Imagine if Bush flew into DC immediately and landed safely. Then that would be pointed to as evidence that "Bush knew"...

  10. #60
    Nbadan
    Guest
    I'm sorry, exactly what kind of "protecting the nation" are you trying to suggest the President could have done in the time he spent at the school?
    He was at a very public photo op that was being televised locally. At the very least he could have gotten the out of the school as quickly as possible to protect the kids.

  11. #61
    Nbadan
    Guest
    102) 9:49 a.m.: The F-16’s from Langley AFB finally arrive over Washington, D.C. to perform Combat Air Patrol over the city. It takes these F-16’s 19 minutes to reach Washington D.C. from Langley AFB which is about 130 miles to the south.

    If these F-16’s were flying at top speed it should have taken them just over 7 minutes to reach the Pentagon. They should have been there at about the same time the Pentagon is hit by American Airlines Flight 77, at 9:37.

    By arriving in Washington D.C. at 9:49, that would mean these F-16’s average flight speed was only 410.5 MPH. This means their average flight speed was only 27.4% of their top speed in trying to protect our nations capital. Langley AFB is 130 miles from the Pentagon and F-16's have a top speed of 1500 MPH. 60 minutes divided by 19 minutes = 3.16 x 130 miles = 410.5 MPH divided by 1500 MPH = 27.4%.

    These F-16’s took-off at 9:30, this is 43 minutes after American Airlines 11 impacts the North Tower of the WTC and 27 minutes after United Airlines Flight 175 slams into the South Tower of the WTC. Knowing this, these F-16’s fly at only 27.4% of their top speed in trying to intercept American Airlines Flight 77 and protect our nations capital, Washington D.C. How could that possibly be?

    Why were all of these ultra-sophisticated fighter jets averaging flight speeds only one quarter of their top speed when sent to intercept hostile aircraft and protect New York City and our nation's Capital, Washington D.C.? What exactly is the purpose of these fighter jets being able to go 1875+ MPH and 1500 MPH, yet when the United States is being attacked and needs them the most they are only somehow capable of doing one quarter of their top speed?

    The United States Air Force is the most technologically advanced, and the most dominant military force ever known to man, and yet we didn’t have any other fighters on routine patrols or training missions anywhere within 1000 miles of New York City or Washington D. C. that morning? I have talked to a few people in the Air Force, and this totally impossible. There are always fighters up on routine patrols or training missions. So where were they?

    And lastly, why didn't the Air Force follow procedure and immediately scramble a recon aircraft or two to monitor any of these 4 flights like they did for the late great golfer Payne Stewart when his Lear jet went off course? This is not Oshkosh, Wisconsin we are talking about protecting here, it is New York City and the Capital of the United States, Washington D.C., and its air defenses were left total unguarded for almost an hour and a half by the same country who have the greatest air superiority by far ever known. What type of a preposterous wag of the NORAD tale is this?

    Both of these groups of fighters, the F-15’s out of Otis, and the F-16’s out of Langley were put in the air merely as window dressing. To make the public actually think they were valiantly trying to intercept these 4 hijacked planes. There is only one explanation for this -- our Air Force was ordered to stand down on 911.
    911 Timeline

  12. #62
    Tommy Duncan
    Guest
    That's the Secret Service's job. He was waiting on his advisers to ascertain the situation and establish communications with the White House.

    Again, NORAD and the FAA had scant info on the planes as it was.

  13. #63
    Tommy Duncan
    Guest
    These F-16’s took-off at 9:30, this is 43 minutes after American Airlines 11 impacts the North Tower of the WTC and 27 minutes after United Airlines Flight 175 slams into the South Tower of the WTC. Knowing this, these F-16’s fly at only 27.4% of their top speed in trying to intercept American Airlines Flight 77 and protect our nations capital, Washington D.C. How could that possibly be?

    Why were all of these ultra-sophisticated fighter jets averaging flight speeds only one quarter of their top speed when sent to intercept hostile aircraft and protect New York City and our nation's Capital, Washington D.C.?
    Take a look at the 9/11 Commission Report. The FAA had no clue where the hijacked planes were. Some of the fighter pilots were told that Flight 11 (the first one to be crashed that day) was headed south across New Jersey.

    Get a ing grip, NORAD and the FAA didn't know where those planes were.

    Your assumption of perfect, instantaneously shared information to all actors is absurd.

  14. #64
    Spurminator
    Guest
    Read the text I quoted Dan. It specifically states that the motorcade left at 9:35. I don't know where you got your 9:45, but if the 911 Commission Report has inconsistencies like this, then maybe they were right to put it off for so long.

    Not that 10 minutes would mean much anyway. It's certainly not the hour and a half you were thinking.

  15. #65
    Nbadan
    Guest
    Commission Report has inconsistencies like this, then maybe they were right to put it off for so long.
    The 911 Commission is a cover-up and there are many inconsistencies in its final report not the least of which involve tracking Muhammed Atta's connections with sympathyers inside the U.S. during the planning stage of the attacks.

  16. #66
    Nbadan
    Guest
    The FAA had no clue where the hijacked planes were. Some of the fighter pilots were told that Flight 11 (the first one to be crashed that day) was headed south across New Jersey.
    Even with it's transponders off, the plane would still have been visible on conventional radar.

  17. #67
    Tommy Duncan
    Guest
    Bull . Without a transponder those planes were considerably difficult to locate.

  18. #68
    Yonivore
    Guest
    "He was at a very public photo op that was being televised locally. At the very least he could have gotten the out of the school as quickly as possible to protect the kids."
    Protect the kids from what?

    Are you suggesting the attackers had no clue where he was and, so, they flew planes into the World Trade Center to "flush" him out?

    You are a piece of work there Nbadan.

    If Bush was a target, the school would have been hit...before, during, or after his visit -- I'm thinking the hijackers didn't have very good sit-reps while in the air and were pretty much going on a preconceived plan.

  19. #69
    Unknown
    Guest
    (This post is missing and can not be restored)

  20. #70
    Unknown
    Guest
    (This post is missing and can not be restored)

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