Exactly the reason Brady has 3 rings. If his defense sucked ass as bad as Manning's did all these years, he doesn't have any of those rings. See 07-08 and 10-11 Patriots.
Takes a full team effort to win a championship. If the Pats defense those two years were more capable of stepping up and helping when the offense went through struggles, Brady would have a fist full of rings.
1999: L to ans...his first ever playoff game...that was a good team they lost to as well.
2005: L to Steelers...probably his most painful loss when he looks back on his career...Colts were far and away the best team in the NFL that year.
2007: L to Chargers...lol the D not being able to stop Michael Turner and Billy Volek.
2010: L to Jets...Defense choked, with an assistvfrom Caldwell's untimely timeout.
I only see 2005 as being a true home choke (on his part) imo.
Agreed. I'm just pointing out that saying Brady ONLY won a ring because of good New England defense is implying that Manning did it all on his own, without a good defense.
Yeah, it is his ego's fault that the defense allowed guys like Phillip Rivers with a shredded knee, and Mark Sanchez to tear them apart in the playoffs. It is his ego's fault that his offensive line suddenly forgot how to pass block against the Steelers and that Vanderjagt went from being the highest % FG kicker of all time, to a choke artist that couldn't hit anything more than 20 yards. It's his ego's fault that Reggie Wayne forgets how to curl on a curl route.
He's not flawless, no QB is. But there were plenty of other factors outside of his control that led heavily to many of the Colts playoff losses, and he usually was not one of them. He pretty much was money in the playoffs after he finally beat the Patriots.
I think it's understandable why some people think Brady is a system QB, just like it's understandable why some people think Manning is a choker. But in the end, both viewpoints are wrong as there is plenty of evidence to back it up both ways.
There is so little that separates the greatness of the two, that it's not even worth debating anymore. They are pretty much equal when all factors are considered. You really can't go wrong with either one, and there is basically no situation in which one has a decided advantage over the other. Both can tear up any defense imaginable, make fantastic reads and audibles, and are scary as in the clutch. We all know what Brady has done in the clutch with a number of game winning drives in the playoffs and SB, and Manning is so scary that he made arguably the greatest coach ever (Belichick) make a generally unthinkable desicion because he was scared at the thought of Manning having the ball with the game on the line.
Manning and Brady have pretty comparable stats in the playoffs actually.
http://www.pro-football-reference.co.../gamelog/post/
Manning: 19 games, 29 TDS, 19 INTs, 63.1% comp, 5389 yds, QB Rating 88.4
http://www.pro-football-reference.co.../gamelog/post/
Brady: 22 games, 38 TDS, 20 INTs, 62.9% comp, 5285 yds, QB Rating 87.8
the FG attempt wouldn't have even been necessary if Peyton's ego didn't hold Nick Harper back from outrunning Fat Ben, not sure though.
Agreed, and I think Manning really shed the whole "choker" thing after he beat us in the AFC game en route to the le.
i agree with DD above, I think that was probably the worst overall loss in his playoff resume. IIRC, that was the year Broncos knocked out Patriots as well, so everything was wide open. wasn't that also right after Dungy's son killed himself? you knew when that happened, the team was going to be either fired up and ready to win for the Gipper, or be totally deflated. fortunately for them, they had the great Jim Caldwell leading the way
and Vanderjagt's kick at the end was probably the most anti-Viniatieri kick ever made, holy , that probably knocked out a concessionaire in the stands.
I can't wait when it's all over for those guys to talk or rehash their battles for some book or do entary. So many great, iconic moments. Belichick going for it on that fourth down was something else, I would really like to hear him shoot the when it's all said and done.
Peyton is the best that I have ever seen in my lifetime. I won't lie, he would cause major problems for that Giants D in the Manning Super Bowl. He can read defenses better than anyone I have ever seen. The Giants D knew how to stop Brady, but Peyton is a different monster. He gets blamed for the Jets loss in 11 (his D lost that game), the Chargers loss in 08 (his D and his WR dropping balls all over the place, the Saints game (Garcon drop, Brees owning that D, and Wayne ing up his route that lost the game) etc etc.
Seeing what Manning has done in Denver is not surprising at all. His impact on the team is greater than just the stats. I read articles on how even the defensive players are being critical of themselves. They take it 1 game at a time. They all hate letting him down, but love playing with him.
Peyton >>>> Brady
Peyton is like the CP3 of the NFL, basically a head coach out there.... his football IQ is off the charts, he carries teams to legit contention, it's not even close.... put Peyton on the Patsies and it'd be not one, not two, not three, not four....
Tbh, if Asante Samuel catches an easy INT, and Welker catches a relatively easy pass, Brady would have five rings right now...
you could spin that a number of ways though. if not for Tuck Rule (still worst call i can remember in any sport) or Spygate, who knows if Brady has any rings.Tbh, if Asante Samuel catches an easy INT, and Welker catches a relatively easy pass, Brady would have five rings right now...
Brady's the best of this generation. Closest thing to Joe Montana we've seen. Brady can dissect any defense he wants.
Except the Giants D
The fact that the Pats went 16-0 that year, and have won numerous games since pretty much throws that out the window. It's not like any of the Pats SB wins have been blowouts either way; those games both came down to a few plays.
And as far as the Tuck Rule, that was Foxborough Stadium's last gift to us before it was retired.
they're a great team without that, and Brady is a very good QB. but obviously recording team's walkthroughs, doing other sneaky , gives you an advantage in key moments. The fact they could only beat teams by 3 points in their SBs shows that every little advantage helped. That and having one of the clutchest kickers ever.
The fact that the Pats went 16-0 that year, and have won numerous games since pretty much throws that out the window. It's not like any of the Pats SB wins have been blowouts either way; those games both came down to a few plays.
And as far as the Tuck Rule, that was Foxborough Stadium's last gift to us before it was retired.
You should read up on Ernie Adams, the rainman of that team. true beautiful mind type guy, I have no doubt that whatever extra footage or intel he is given, he can use it better than any other team.
but i'll give you credit, least you don't make excuses for Tuck Rule, i've encountered patriot fans who still defend the call.
The Tuck Rule was TECHNICALLY correct, but no ref actually calls it like that. I actually had made a bet on the game with my friend, and when that call came out, I giggled like a little schoolgirl.
Thread. Montana will always be the greatest in my book, but Brady & Manning have been more consistent (very little though) than Montana.
Hornets78 are you a big Bill Romanowski fan?
I liked him in Madden 93 when he was for the 49ers, but he was mostly successful by being roided up and had too much roid rage in the process. Honestly, he's a s bug.
I don't see how it was even technically correct, considering the ball was fully tucked. It wasn't moving forward anymore. He clearly had both hands on the ball.The Tuck Rule was TECHNICALLY correct, but no ref actually calls it like that. I actually had made a bet on the game with my friend, and when that call came out, I giggled like a little schoolgirl.
Montana
Brady
Elway
Manning
Favre
PM still has time to move up and is already my 2nd favorite ever to watch
I think that they said it wasn't fully "tucked" into his body, but yeah, I know. Of course, you could argue that the refs missed him getting hit in the head too... he gets slapped on the side of his helmet. It's pretty easy to see at 3:53 here. I'm pretty sure it was illegal even back then to hit a QB in the head, but that tends to get glossed over.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDQAmuZ8t94
Montana was surrounded by the most talent in the history of... Ever... Manning and Brady, in that order, for GOAT.
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