Random thoughts after third easy win vs. Mavs

[timvp]

This is the first time I have heard you express the opinion that Tony is among the top two point guards.

Did you miss this thread from earlier in the week covering this very subject?

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=208373

I've mentioned plenty elsewhere that I think TP > Westbrook so that makes CP3 and TP the top two PGs in the league.

As recently as last season, you indicated (I can't quote chapter and verse, but since I spent a lot of my career interviewing people, I do tend to remember what they say) that you weren't sure that Tony was among the top 5 pgs in the league, but that he was certainly among the top ten.

I doubt I said that last season. Maybe early on when he was struggling ... but certainly not after he started playing well.

As recently as earlier this season, you indicated that he 'has a terrible looking shot' when he uses that floater.

No offense ... but that's pure and utter BS. I've never said that. Parker has the best floater in the history of the NBA. I would have never even thought that, much less type it.

If you're going to claim I'm biased against Parker, making up BS to try to justify your stance isn't appreciated, tbh.

Secondly, with respect your stated point of evaluating based on expectations: if a player accomplishes something for the first time in his 11 year career (like a triple double), I don't understand how you can NOT assess that as having exceeded expectations for that player. Do you see what I mean?

A triple-double is more of a statistical anomaly rather than a truly great accomplishment. Rondo racks up countless meaningless triple-doubles.

Looking back, here's what I had to say about Parker's triple-double:

Congrats to Tony Parker for his first career triple-double. And, honestly, this wasn’t a cheap triple-double. On a few occasions, he was battling in midair against Houston’s bigmen for rebounds. Needless to say, it was by far Parker’s most impressive game of the season on the boards. Offensively, he was also a positive. He consistently made plays for himself and others by using his speed and underrated strength. Perhaps most importantly, Parker kept a steady hand despite the numerous runs by the Rockets. Unfortunately, D was the Frenchman’s Achilles heel on the night. His energy on that end was iffy early on and by the time Parker tried to ramp it up, Lin was blazing. He was later switched off onto other players but he was never able to make an impact on that end outside of rebounding.

So I knocked him down from an A+ to an A because Jeremy Lin had 38 points and seven assists. So, uh, yeah I stand by that. A triple-double is only so valuable. When you're giving up a career-high to Lin on the other end, getting docked half a letter grade isn't outrageous, IMO.

He is quick, but not nearly as quick as he was when he came in the league. He has lost at least a step or step-and-a-half in the last three years. He is not the fastest in the league

No offense but that simply isn't accurate. And it's not my subjective opinion, either. About half the NBA teams have cameras positioned around the court that track everything. One thing they track is the speed of each player. Out of everyone in the league, Parker has recorded the fastest times every year since those cameras were put into place.

he is not the best passer on this team, much less in the league

I think he's an elite passer, especially when you factor in the avoidance of bad passes.

he does not have superior court vision for a point guard

Parker has good court vision. How many players spot shooters better when penetrating at full speed? Not many.

he is not a particularly gifted defensive player.

When he's locked in, Parker has always been an above average defensive player.

So some of the inconsistency I see in your comments is that you have varied (again, imo) fairly widely in your assessment of Tony's abilities, but when it comes to evaluating him, you hold him to a higher standard than your other comments indicate he should be held.

You must be thinking of someone else who thinks Parker isn't a top five point guard and has an ugly floater. That ain't me.


I appreciate your responses but it seems like the issues are:

1) You are underestimating how talented and dominant Parker is as a player. He's not a charity case, he's a damn good player. He's the fastest player in the league and has talent on top of that.

2) Your previous example of an unfair grade was apparently because you thought a triple-double = perfection regardless of defensive play. I disagree.

3) You are misremembering comments and associating those misremembered comments with me.







That said, I hope you continue the good fight and continue to support Parker. Like you said, it does get annoying reading the Parker bashing that takes place here. And like you said, I don't always feel like putting in the effort to combat it. But, to be honest, I'm more of an ally than you apparently realize. Disagreeing on a half letter grade here or there is pretty meaningless in the big picture. Most people (Spurs fans included) don't realize Parker's value to this team. So, yeah, I hope you keep fighting the good fight

[DAF86]

1) You are underestimating how talented and dominant Parker is as a player. He's not a charity case, he's a damn good player. He's the fastest player in the league and has talent on top of that.

DPG21920 come see this .

[DPG21920]

DPG21920 come see this .

He's the fastest unathletic person on erfth

[AFBlue]

Another thought...seemed like Tiago was pressing early. I wonder if he felt like he had to be "the guy" with Duncan out, but the results were ugly. I'm glad Blair was there to bail the big man out until he settled down.

[Brunodf]

Another thought...seemed like Tiago was pressing early. I wonder if he felt like he had to be "the guy" with Duncan out, but the results were ugly. I'm glad Blair was there to bail the big man out until he settled down.

[2]

[Pauleta14]

I think someone has me confused with ElNono, tbh.

I spent this whole thread slurping TP, said he's the most underappreciated player in the league and gave him credit for carrying the team during this tumultuous time. The only thing that could be considered negative I said was that he's not on the same level as LeBron James and Kevin Durant. And somehow that caused an epic meltdown.

Wow.

Look at TP's season average in your game thoughts, he should at least be near Duncan or in the 90s%...

I think you're tough on him on the defensive end, it's way more difficult to defend a PG than any other position, you have to run more, go throuh screens... It's almost impossible to defend the elite PG in the nba 1on1...

Is Paul a weak defender because he can't stop TP?

Anyway, no big deal, I know you spend a lot of time defending him on the forum, but I agree with EVAY, you TOO don't give Parker the credit he deserves...

[TMTTRIO]

And, about El Nono....I mostly laugh at E-N because he has made dumping on Tony an iden y issue for himself, and he is awfully good natured about it. Plus, I happen to agree with him that Manu is the best. Period. I would rather watch Ginobili play basketball than most anything. But that is it, you see, Ginobili is sooooo talented. I expect more from him. And he is flashy. Parker is not flashy. That is why I said earlier that Parker reminds me more of Tim than Manu. Because Manu gets us all on our feet because his play is a thing of wild beauty (except of course when the ball goes in the stands, but you know what I mean), whereas Tony and Tim give us win after win after win, with or without Manu. We are a far better team with Manu, but he is no longer the determinant of a win. Tony pretty much is that, without the raw talent and without the flash.

So you say you expect more out of Manu but Tony is the one that gives us wins? How many All Star games does Tony have compared to Manu? How many Final MVP's does he have compared to Manu? By now you should know by now that we need Tony to play well for us to win and even though we also need Manu to play well we can still win without him and that's why we have a lot of backups behind him.

[racm]

timvp, hasn't it hit you that the Mavs are currently the "scrubby SW Division team the Spurs always beat up"? The Pelicans have become the "scrubby SW Division team the Spurs always play close", OTOH.

Houston's in a "we can take them in a playoff series easily but they're tougher than they look" and Memphis has replaced Dallas' old role of main division rival, IMO

[Bartleby]

timvp, hasn't it hit you that the Mavs are currently the "scrubby SW Division team the Spurs always beat up"? The Pelicans have become the "scrubby SW Division team the Spurs always play close", OTOH.

Houston's in a "we can take them in a playoff series easily but they're tougher than they look" and Memphis has replaced Dallas' old role of main division rival, IMO

So does that make OKC the new Lakers or the new Phoenix?

[td4mvp21]

So does that make OKC the new Lakers or the new Phoenix?

Judging by last year's series, the new Lakers.

[jjktkk]

Tony will never be a league MVP unless Tim is gone and Pop lets TP play more minutes than he does. TP's stats would be much gaudier than they already are if he played the same number of minutes that lots of others do. That can't happen on a Pop team. That is a function of Pop, not the player.

And if this were to happen, you would be looking at a Chris Paul type situation, when Paul was in NO imo.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

The "Parker plays hero-ball" cult that seems so fashionable amongst some around here really should stop.

TP has become a consummate PG - he first tries to penetrate and create action either for himself or someone else, but if left wide open from 18ft (or alone at the 3pt line) he shoots the ball because he knows he's money from there at this point in his career. He doesn't play just for himself at all - he balances getting the rest of the team involved vs scoring when the team has gone into a funk and needs some points perfectly.

Seriously, stop hating on a superb player who has done nothing but improve each and every year in his time with the Spurs.

Whoever compared him to Westbrick should get their head checked. If Westbrick had half the savvy Parker has as a lead guard the rest of the NBA wouldn't stand a chance.