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It's like a record scratching at the end when you say, "Brady, Rodgers, Manning, Flacco..."
i can name 5, maybe 7 qb's better than flacco.
the elite word is being tossed around too loosely.
he's good but not elite.
It's like a record scratching at the end when you say, "Brady, Rodgers, Manning, Flacco..."
If Fitzpatrick had done that en route to winning the Super Bowl, I don't think any Bills fans have a problem with screaming "MVP!" especially if he had actually won an MVP.
Name them. I don't see a legitimate argument for any more than three or so. Since the NFL changes so much, I don't see the merit in QB rankings, anyway.
this wigga is still melting down from tbe Superbowl. "I bet you he doesnt win another one, thatll support my argument!!!". How many do Rodgers, Brees, Peyton Manning, and every black QB (combined)have? Way to go out on a limb there! I have a counterbet for you: i bet you 10 grand the sun comes up tomorrow. Deal?
I've never called or considered Fitz elite, but nice try moving the goalposts
I think the top 4 are easily Brady, Manning, Rogers and Brees, with Rodgers being the clearcut #1, Brady and Manning neck and neck, then Brees at #4. The following 4 are imo Flacco, E. Manning, Big Rape and Matt Ryan in that order, so I'd rank him 5th overall but not THAT much better than the #8 guy. Next season will basically say which side of this argument is right.
IA with the bold but here is my list from earlier in the thread:
that's 4 who i think are elite, i would also put ruthlessburger, eli and matt ryan over flacco.
i just read this after responding to chinook.
i agree that after the top 4, 5-10 are interchangable.
i'm not saying flacco is a scrub or he sucks, i just don't think he's elite, yet.
If you think Matt Ryan is better than Flacco then i don't know what to tell you. Nobody does less with more in the postseason
I would take Andrew Luck over Flacco.
Thanks. Looking at that list makes me even more convinced that the word elite should be banned from sports talk. Those players are taking up about 16 percent of their teams' caps. And they all sat at home and watched an "inferior" player with a better overall team win it all. And now that inferior player wants to be paid even more than the others, at the cost of his team. Does he think he's win and make $20 Million a year?
Probably, and that's what's messed up about today's NFL. The only quarterback who's shown he can literally drag a terrible team to the playoffs consistently is Manning (my definition of elite). And now it's clear he's not elite anymore, either. These players are costing their teams the chance to win a ring, if you ask me.
Plenty of players have shown they can drag ty teams to the playoffs if that's what you're saying, that's not exclusive to Manning at all. The Packers were a horrible team this year outside of Rodgers.
Hard to tell when you're being jokingly dumb or seriously dumb.
See, people say that kind of stuff all the time, and it's usually not true. Rodgers had plenty of good weapons to throw to, and there's no reason to think that another quarterback (like Flynn) could have stepped in and avoided a 1-15 season had they gotten the chance. That's not to say Rodgers isn't a top quarterback. It's just to say that his performance this season was not elite by the metric I laid out.
It's clear that Manning WAS the Colts during his final years there. That's why Polian got fired. The Packers aren't the same way at all. They have good players on both sides of the ball, and when they won their ring, their defense was one of the top units in the league at takeaways. We'll see what a bad Packers team really looks like when they have to start letting their players go so they can give Rodgers $20+ Million a year.
When the Colts won a ring they had a top defensive unit during the playoffs, so idk why that's relevant. Both Rodgers and Manning have carried bad defenses to the playoffs and lost. So has Brady and Brees for that matter, it's something a handful of QBs are capable of doing, especially in the modern era NFL that's dominated by passing offenses.
There's plenty of reason to think Curtis Painter and Dan Orlovsky (since those were the starters for the 2011 Colts you're using to justify your argument) would have had a 3-13 or worse season if they stepped in for Rodgers. They had no running game to speak of and an offensive line that allowed more sacks than every team other than the Cardinals, while their top receivers were Jordy Nelson, Randall Cobb, and James Jones. Three solid receivers who run good routes, but none of which are play makers, and none of which sniff 1,000 yards with a mediocre QB. You're kidding yourself if you think the Packers' offense would not have been a league bottom feeder in every offensive category with Painter and Orlovsky at QB, or Matt Flynn for that matter.
((This was a really long post that can be summarized in a few sentences.))
The Colts were mediocre outside of their edge-rushers. But the team came together that year, which is what I was saying about winning teams in general.
Manning had more responsibility than the other top QBs.
Painter and Orlovsky suck more than Flynn.
A good system can work just as well as having top players.
Teams that fail just because they don't have a certain quarterback were built poorly from the start.
Regular-season performance is a terrible thing to use to measure elite status.
Last edited by Chinook; 02-08-2013 at 10:44 PM.
My main issue is this:
The whole point of having this elite label is so people can say that if you have a quarterback who fits the label, then you are a contender for a Super Bowl (and if you don't, you're not). For the last five years, supposed non-elite QBs have won championships, forcing people to expand their elite lists to the point that you have John Clayton putting 12 players in that category (more this year). In conjunction with this, we've seen quarterback salaries balloon because of brinkmanship among agents trying to get "elite" money. And the teams are letting them do it, because they want to keep their elite player so they can remain a contender. This has been causing huge talent drains for teams with top-dollar passers, hurting them against up-and-coming teams with more-even salary distributions.
Ironically, the idea that certain quarterbacks are needed to win Super Bowls is keeping the teams who have those quarterbacks from winning Super Bowls.
Last edited by Chinook; 02-08-2013 at 10:44 PM.
I think elite means playing at a hall of fame level for an extended amount of time.
Peyton
Brady
Brees
Rodgers
just when I'm ready to call Eli elite, he seems to fizzle. I think he needs an MVP to make him elite.
Joe Flacco is in a similar boat, but has farther to go than Eli.
Matt Ryan, Schaub even farther.
lol Romo's name in this thread
Matt Ryan aka the other Tony Romo better than Flacco?
yes, him.
lol you boys still mad at half breed losing the super bowl huh?
uhh no.
i think ya'll took that black qb far more serious than i did lol.
i just don't think he is elite.
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