Manu Ginobili played like crap again

[Sean Cagney]

He hasn't taken a step back 3 in ages, tbh. Poor shot selection isn't the issue. The issue is that he can't hit open shots when they are given to him. He can't finish through contact in the lane, and this is particularly troublesome given that he isn't getting much respect from the refs anymore either. He routinely gives up open or semi-contested shots and opts to pass the ball out more (often to well-guarded teammates) because he feels he needs to be more of a "facilitator," but the problem is he can't facilitate if he isn't perceived as a scoring threat.

Really? I saw a few stepback threes in the GS loss and a few in the PHX loss! Both which make me shake my head. Poor shot selection maybe not at times, but he can't drive or finish or get fouled like he used to, thats the problem and I miss that part of him now! He doesn't attack nearly as good as he did now! Thats why he is not getting the fouls he did is because he is settling for bs shots and outside shots instead of slashing in and forcing the issue. His body is tired now IMO. I agree on the rest though you said, not a bad post overall there.

[Bruno]

Over 15 games? Considering how bad he's been shooting/playing and how much of the offense runs through him, I expected a much bigger difference, tbh.

It's over 16 games.

Without Ginobili, Spurs are outscoring opponents by 13.7 points per 48 minutes.
With Ginobili, Spurs are outscored by 1.9 points per 48 minutes.

I'm not sure how you can say it isn't a huge difference.

[Capt Bringdown]

Spurs are nuts to offer Manu more years. Time to say goodbye to Manu.

[Pop]

It's over 16 games.

Without Ginobili, Spurs are outscoring opponents by 13.7 points per 48 minutes.
With Ginobili, Spurs are outscored by 1.9 points per 48 minutes.

I'm not sure how you can say it isn't a huge difference.

Damn, playing with the scruby PGs doesn't help but still pretty bad.

The thing is I don't get why Pop went with Nando, giving us two equally slow SG on D...

[KaiRMD1]

Well, considering the top teams rely on one-two players to lead them, the Spurs are in somewhat good hands since we have four guys we really should be relying on (Timmy, Tony, Tiago & Kawhi). If Manu can get into form along with everybody else, I don't see why we can't make a serious push. , our first round match up only relies on one guy.

[intlspurshk]

But I don't see the second all stars in this team apart from TP right now. SPURS do have a lot of good but not great players at present. Sometimes, TD can play at all star level but can't give such performance consistently. SPURS only have one real big player right now

[Creation88]

Manu's been god awful all year (save a few spurt of games he tied together).

it's not just his shooting. he's making exceedingly horrible decisions with the ball (turnovers), terrible position on defense (getting burned: i.e. Utah tied 3 to send it to OT), and even off the ball (not taking the ball from Tim at the top of the key last night instead of in the paint where defenders were waiting)

[SenorSpur]

I'm more worried about Pop's reluctance to accept Manu's decline, tbh..

I understand that Manu has earned the benefit of the doubt, he's a HOFer, but at some point the team needs to accept that his role should be reduced..

Kawhi was having a good game up until the mid-3rd, where Pop subbed him out..Leonard didn't touch the ball again for what seemed like an eternity, and his only shots in the 4th were spot-up 3s with the clock windin down(he deserves blame for that hideous shot that hit the side of the backboard, obviously)..

We have reached the point where Leonard needs to be involved in the offense every few plays, tbh..the Spurs can't allow 6-7 minutes to elapse until they run a play for him..

[Phenomanul]

Players just don't fall off a cliff in a couple of months... Ginobili was playing really well this past summer (less than 8 months ago).

It's a mental thing with Manu, and he knows it... it's also taking a bit longer than normal for him to overcome it... but overcome he will.

Too many "Chicken Littles" in here tbh...

[jag]

Another issue about Manu being bad is that it significantly hurt the team.

+/- post all star game:
Splitter: +128
Duncan: +106
Leonard: +106
Green: +95
Parker: +76
Joseph: +25
Bonner: +23
Neal: +21
Jackson: +20
Baynes: -7
Blair: -9
Diaw: -12
Ginobili: -16
De Colo: -67

[ElNono]

It's over 16 games.

Without Ginobili, Spurs are outscoring opponents by 13.7 points per 48 minutes.
With Ginobili, Spurs are outscored by 1.9 points per 48 minutes.

I'm not sure how you can say it isn't a huge difference.

Seeing he averages 24mpg, that's a differential of -6 per game. That's why I was saying only -6 ulative didn't add up. Unless I'm missing something.

[TheGoldStandard]

Manu stunk it up, too many minutes for a non productive player especially only going 1 for 7. Yeah he didn't over shoot but the shots he did take were crap and it's all about confidence. Parker should have had the ball in his hand on the last play or even Kawhi. Lets reward the players that are making shots.

[Strategic]

When Manu was leading the team who the needed numbers to know it? Maybe he's making bad decisions because he just can't quite get to where he could when he was 30, go figure. When the team is on the court in the final minutes, one or two bad decisions can cost the game. Can you execute in crunch time or not? One out of three ain't good! It doesn't matter if his numbers aren't that much "off" of what they used to be, if he F's up in the last two minutes, ................... I respect the out of what the man has accomplished, but.....

[will_spurs]

Seeing he averages 24mpg, that's a differential of -6 per game. That's why I was saying only -6 ulative didn't add up. Unless I'm missing something.

Bruno is saying Manu is -1.9 per 48 minutes. Since he plays only 24mpg, that's an average of 1.9 / 2 = 0.95 per game

0.95 * 16 = 15.2

This is in line with the overall -16 figure Bruno posted on last page (there's probably some rounding here and there to explain the difference)

[ElNono]

Bruno is saying Manu is -1.9 per 48 minutes. Since he plays only 24mpg, that's an average of 1.9 / 2 = 0.95 per game

0.95 * 16 = 15.2

This is in line with the overall -16 figure Bruno posted on last page (there's probably some rounding here and there to explain the difference)

I got that part of the equation, which is while Manu actually is on the floor. Considering his current suckitude, -1ppg differential looks low to me.

I think what Bruno is arguing now is the Spurs +/- production with Manu on the court vs off the court, which translates to the numbers he posted above.

[Bruno]

I got that part of the equation, which is while Manu actually is on the floor. Considering his current suckitude, -1ppg differential looks low to me.

Spurs are one of the best team in the NBA, so being outscored, even if it's only by 1.9 points per 48 minutes is damn bad.

Manu has been individually bad since he came back from his hamstring injury and he has hurt Spurs. If you look at Spurs games and at the stats, I'm not sure how you can disagree with that. Once this analysis is done, there are some more interesting questions:
- Will Manu play better this season and especially in the playoffs?
- What Pop can do to help Manut o get out of this slump?
- If Manu keeps sucking, what Pop can do to minimize the negative impact it has on Spurs?

[Bruno]

there's probably some rounding here and there to explain the difference

Spurs also played 3 OT games in that stretch which explain the difference.

[jag]

Players just don't fall off a cliff in a couple of months... Ginobili was playing really well this past summer (less than 8 months ago).

It's a mental thing with Manu, and he knows it... it's also taking a bit longer than normal for him to overcome it... but overcome he will.

I agree with this, to a degree. I think he'll snap out of it and go on a nice run of games, but I think it would be foolish to ever expect consistent production on a game-to-game basis. He's just pressing too hard right now. As soon as shots starts falling it'll open up other parts of his game.

[024]

Ginobili has indeed been playing like crap all season. But the Spurs need Ginobili to do well in order to go far in the playoffs. Leonard can't take over as the third option until next season. Ginobili has always been a streaky up and down player (usually down = injuries) so hopefully he's getting all of his down play out of the way. He's defended by many posters the same way Kobe nuthuggers defend Kobe. They zero in on a few plays or games where the player did well and completely ignore the inefficiencies and turnovers. The truth is Gionbili hasn't even needed to carry a large load like previous years. He's averaging 23 minutes while Parker and Duncan are both having phenomenal years. Leonard and Splitter have also stepped up to shoulder some of the load this year. Ginobili needs to get his head out of his ass to string together 23 minutes of good basketball. Parker, Duncan, Splitter, and Leonard have all stepped up their game and Ginobili needs to do the same.

[spurtech09]

yeah manu hasn't been playing that well but manu has been getting knocked around and not getting rewarded for it.....the refs have something to do with it and its been going on the last couple of games....I just hope it doesn't travel into the play offs....Just like last night in the rockets game.....

[ElNono]

Spurs are one of the best team in the NBA, so being outscored, even if it's only by 1.9 points per 48 minutes is damn bad.

Even the champ Miami has lineups that get outscored (and include James, Wade, etc). I think they're one of the best teams in the NBA too.

Manu has been individually bad since he came back from his hamstring injury and he has hurt Spurs. If you look at Spurs games and at the stats, I'm not sure how you can disagree with that. Once this analysis is done, there are some more interesting questions:
- Will Manu play better this season and especially in the playoffs?
- What Pop can do to help Manut o get out of this slump?
- If Manu keeps sucking, what Pop can do to minimize the negative impact it has on Spurs?

There's no doubt Manu has been sucking individually lately and that has an impact on the team overall.
I'll go further and tell you he has not had a consistent stretch of games this *entire* season.

1.9 points per 48 though? That's looks pretty low to me. Taking into consideration his shooting slump and his role on the team, I expected a much bigger drop while he was out there. He seemingly can't do anything right now.

[ElNono]

I agree with this, to a degree. I think he'll snap out of it and go on a nice run of games, but I think it would be foolish to ever expect consistent production on a game-to-game basis. He's just pressing too hard right now. As soon as shots starts falling it'll open up other parts of his game.

Couldn't agree more. His shooting is phenomenally bad right now. Even finishing up layups. Gotta snap out of it, and I think the rest of his game will come around.

[cd98]

Regardless of stats, Manu fails the eye test. If he doesn't at least become a super sub (double digit scorer with reasonable shooting percentage), we are in trouble in the playoffs. I'm just not seeing great scoring from the bench since Tiago went in as a starter and Neal got injured. Certainly we have skilled players, but we need to be able to outscore other playoff teams' benches to win a le.

[Bruno]

I'll go further and tell you he has not had a consistent stretch of games this *entire* season.

After a slow start due to a back injury in training camp, Manu was good before hurting his hamstring.

Manu from November 15th to January 13th (30 games):
13.9 points (.453 FG%, .406 3p%, .846 FT%)
4.1 rebounds
4.7 assists
1.5 steals
2.0 turnover
in 25.2 mpg

1.9 points per 48 though? That's looks pretty low to me. Taking into consideration his shooting slump and his role on the team, I expected a much bigger drop while he was out there. He seemingly can't do anything right now.

The drop isn't 1.9 points per 48 minutes, it's 15.6 points per 48 minutes (-1.9 - +13.7).

[Darius McCrary]

It's mostly his jump shooting. Same with Jackson, tbh