Heat: Where does Lebron rank after this season?

[Venti Quattro]

Easily top 10. Top 5, maybe one more ring

[oh crap]

Top 10 for now.

[Monster1776]

While it's not as ridiculous as Kobefan glorifying Kobe for "sticking with the Lakers his entire career!" as if he was dealt some crappy hand that he made the most of, it's still a ridiculous and intellectually dishonest argument to herald Jordan for "Sticking with the Bulls!" in the Jordan v. Lebron comparisons. If after 7 years with the Bulls Jordan was surrounded by the likes of Mo Williams, Anderson Verejao, and a coach who didn't know how to draw up offensive sets, he'd have left just like Lebron left Cleveland.

True, but LeBron still shouldn't of taken a pay cut so he could cheat the Luxury Tax system by utilizing Florida's taxing laws.

[spurraider21]

Rings are stupid unless Duncan gets a fifth ....

Spurfan values rings very much, but Kobe fan calls them the only way to define a player since he picked up #5. Spurfan will likely bring up rings a lot more after 5 just because we know Kobefan will stfu about rings once Timmy ties him in that category and already is ahead of him in MVP's, Finals MVP's... the pinnacles of individual play. Kobefan likes granting team accomplishments as the only way to define players

[Monster1776]

Spurfan values rings very much, but Kobe fan calls them the only way to define a player since he picked up #5. Spurfan will likely bring up rings a lot more after 5 just because we know Kobefan will stfu about rings once Timmy ties him in that category and already is ahead of him in MVP's, Finals MVP's... the pinnacles of individual play. Kobefan likes granting team accomplishments as the only way to define players

Finals MVP is largely decided on team play.

[HarlemHeat37]

16, 4 and 4 sure has superstar written all over it.

His playoff numbers were easily superstar-esque, tbh..

Spurs needed him to play at that level, especially with Duncan's feet limiting his impact(compared to his usual elite production) and Parker having a horrible playoffs..

Ginobili was the best perimeter player in the 2005 playoffs, along with being a solid defensive player..

[Monster1776]

His playoff numbers were easily superstar-esque, tbh..

Manu will always be a superstar relative to being a bench player

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

True, but LeBron still shouldn't of taken a pay cut so he could cheat the Luxury Tax system by utilizing Florida's taxing laws.

are you really criticizing a player for taking a pay cut? Is that serious?

[resistanze]

are you really criticizing a player for taking a pay cut? Is that serious?

cheating the system by taking less money

Joe Johnson is a god damned saint.

[spurraider21]

Finals MVP is largely decided on team play.

And yet is still an individual award

[Monster1776]

are you really criticizing a player for taking a pay cut? Is that serious?

I know the irony is stifling, but willingly taking a contract that's way below your value so you can move to a team that can fill it with a championship roster seems slimey to me; the Heat holding a pre championship parade before the season starts leads me to believe that they knew exactly what the they were doing. Now Durant or Westbrook taking a pay cut so they can keep Harden with them seems straight to me or any other franchise so that they can keep their team together; I don't know if that seems backwards or not so you tell me.

[Monster1776]

And yet is still an individual award

How many times do you see the award go to the losing team?

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I know the irony is stifling, but willingly taking a contract that's way below your value so you can move to a team that can fill it with a championship roster seems slimey to me; the Heat holding a pre championship parade before the season starts leads me to believe that they knew exactly what the they were doing. Now Durant or Westbrook taking a pay cut so they can keep Harden with them seems straight to me or any other franchise so that they can keep their team together; I don't know if that seems backwards or not so you tell me.

So basically your criteria is such that it's somehow bad when Lebron takes a paycut for the good of the team, but in the event players on the thunder take a paycut it's good. I'm sure this carefully designed set of rules you've created for when paycuts are ok was not in any way influenced by the fact you're a thunder fan or your frustration about okc losing harden because chimp was a greedy monkey who demanded the max. That's all prolly just a coincidence.

[spurraider21]

How many times do you see the award go to the losing team?

In recent history, outside of Shaq vs Pistons, I don't recall the last time the best performer in the finals wound up on the losing side

[Phillip]

I'm the biggest Lebron fan here, but even I'd say that the 2011 Finals will prevent him from surpassing Dad Killer on the all-time list, tbh..

which is awful logic tbh, considering at least he was able to get to the finals.

MJ had his share of poor series and moments, only his came in the earlier/first rounds of the playoffs, so maybe they weren't as noticeable, but doesn't make them any less bad.

[DMC]

Repeating automatically puts Lebron ahead of jim imho.

Not being on trial for rape puts him ahead of your hero.

[DMC]

In recent history, outside of Shaq vs Pistons, I don't recall the last time the best performer in the finals wound up on the losing side

I think Jerry West was the last to get the Finals MVP on the losing team. 1969

[DMC]

I know the irony is stifling, but willingly taking a contract that's way below your value so you can move to a team that can fill it with a championship roster seems slimey to me; the Heat holding a pre championship parade before the season starts leads me to believe that they knew exactly what the they were doing. Now Durant or Westbrook taking a pay cut so they can keep Harden with them seems straight to me or any other franchise so that they can keep their team together; I don't know if that seems backwards or not so you tell me.

Wow. It's not slimy to choose winning over money. It's also not slimy to take max salary at the detriment to the team's success chances. One player sees his fortune in winning and the other sees his in his salary. Lebron will make more by winning than a team could possibly pay him to lose.

There's no sliminess in signing a contract for less than you made last year so you can be part of a winning organization. It happens all the time in the private sector.

There is a questionable ethics issue in regards to compe ion, however that's not Lebron's problem. It's up to the NBA to offer a good product. Miami is offering the best product, other franchises need to step up their game and offer a decent product instead of D league call ups and overrated monkeys.

[LnGrrrR]

Surely top 10. Too early to say top 5, but likely.

[ElNono]

True, but LeBron still shouldn't of taken a pay cut so he could cheat the Luxury Tax system by utilizing Florida's taxing laws.

[Monster1776]

So basically your criteria is such that it's somehow bad when Lebron takes a paycut for the good of the team, but in the event players on the thunder take a paycut it's good. I'm sure this carefully designed set of rules you've created for when paycuts are ok was not in any way influenced by the fact you're a thunder fan or your frustration about okc losing harden because chimp was a greedy monkey who demanded the max. That's all prolly just a coincidence.

I probably didn't word it right since I was writing this out on my phone over lunch. I take issue with players leaving teams and joining up to win championships; I feel like a championship team should be crafted through smart and some times lucky draft picks, intelligent managing and trading, and proper coaching and training instead of a few select guys choosing to work a system.

I personally wish Durant and Westbrook would of taken a hit in their contract since they should make tons more through endorsements so we could keep Harden; I know it may sound hypocritical or self-reightous but that's just how I feel about it personally. Not saying it's how it should be, just personal opinion.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I probably didn't word it right since I was writing this out on my phone over lunch. I take issue with players leaving teams and joining up to win championships; I feel like a championship team should be crafted through smart and some times lucky draft picks, intelligent managing and trading, and proper coaching and training instead of a few select guys choosing to work a system..

So you take issue with how Lebron's team is built but oddly enough think your team was built the right way.

That's a convenient coincidence, tbh.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Wow. It's not slimy to choose winning over money. It's also not slimy to take max salary at the detriment to the team's success chances. One player sees his fortune in winning and the other sees his in his salary. Lebron will make more by winning than a team could possibly pay him to lose.

There's no sliminess in signing a contract for less than you made last year so you can be part of a winning organization. It happens all the time in the private sector.

There is a questionable ethics issue in regards to compe ion, however that's not Lebron's problem. It's up to the NBA to offer a good product. Miami is offering the best product, other franchises need to step up their game and offer a decent product instead of D league call ups and overrated monkeys.

DMC bullying s

Just to add to the part about the paycut.....Lebron, Wade and Bosh each made over $17,000,000 a year this year. Monster1776 must have been methed out when he said Lebron took a significant paycut. The paycut Lebron, Wade and Bosh took was a few million a pop so they could sign Mike Miller that same off season. It didn't change anything the following off season as their salaries increased enough to put Miami over the cap where they have the MLE to work with regardless.

[Latarian Milton]

OKC can't afford to pay luxury tax which's why they made that trade imho. bird rights allow them to keep everyone they have as long as they're willing to pay the tax, but to teams who're based in small markets, financial health sometimes matters more than the team's compe iveness imho.

[DMC]

I probably didn't word it right since I was writing this out on my phone over lunch. I take issue with players leaving teams and joining up to win championships; I feel like a championship team should be crafted through smart and some times lucky draft picks, intelligent managing and trading, and proper coaching and training instead of a few select guys choosing to work a system.

I personally wish Durant and Westbrook would of taken a hit in their contract since they should make tons more through endorsements so we could keep Harden; I know it may sound hypocritical or self-reightous but that's just how I feel about it personally. Not saying it's how it should be, just personal opinion.

As a fan I want the highest quality product I can possibly get, but I weigh my fan loyalty against the desire to see great basketball. That's why I am a Spurs fan. I won't ever see a stacked team the likes of the Heat, the Celts of a few years ago or the Lakers, but I see good basketball and take comfort in rooting for a group of guys I don't hate as individuals. I don't hate Lebron, quite the opposite actually, so I can understand how he could do what he did and get away with it. There are players in the league who could not get away with it. The fact that you take issue with it speaks volumes to Lebron's greatness. No one would criticize Carlos Boozer if he joined up with Wade. Lebron is far and away the best in the league, and plenty thought he could win a ring in Cleveland. He didn't because they didn't put anyone around him to make the team good enough to win a ring. Dan Gilbert was milking Lebron's greatness for every penny he could get, but he's too ing stupid to do anything to keep Lebron in that city. Shaq, really? That was his answer to needing someone... about to retire Shaq.

Meanwhile in OKC you guys have one of the best 1st round picks in the past 30 years. You put a team around him and you've done well. Let Durant go a few more years without ringing and see what choices he makes. Then come back and talk to us about joining forces.