A little surprised we're 50+ posts in and no one has pointed out the obvious -- why Pop started Bonner.
The rationale is, imo, obvious. With no David Lee, GSW has no bigs who can defend outside the rim. Not outside the paint... outside the rim. Bogut's extremely effective under the rim, but doesn't have the quickness to be effective anywhere else. It's why we've seen Duncan get so many shots from the top of the key; GSW would rather keep Bogut inside to collect rebounds and clog the paint to prevent Parker drives. And it's a good strategy too.
So, how do the Spurs counter that? By sending in "another" offensive floor-stretching big. Duncan by himself is a reasonable floor-stretcher for a big, but you can easily use help defense to mitigate that. But put Duncan and Bonner out there together, and the Warriors, THEORETICALLY, are essentially forced to make their defense spread the floor as well. Someone has to cover Bonner out there... that, combined with Duncan being at the top of the key, leads to HUGE space for Parker to drive.
The question then becomes, what affects Bonner's +/-? Given that he doesn't shoot much, this should be obvious.... Bonner's +/- is almost entirely dependent on if Parker and the guards are successfully driving the lane, and if Duncan et al are hitting their jumpers. In Game 2 --- they did not. It's not Bonner's fault. Just like it's not to his credit if it's high. He's practically a decoy.
I do strongly agree with Charlie Sheen in that anyone who blames the loss on Bonner's performance is an idiot. His role is far too limited for anyone to sensibly think he's the main cause of anything, wins or losses.
I also agree with Sheen that silverblk mystix should either put up some real evidence to back his thoughts (other than "I watch the games") or shut his mouth. Arguing is great, but arguing without giving supporting facts makes you look like a child.
You sir are invited to a party.
Splitter didn't look right out there. It's not a matter of whether to play him without him practicing -- it's a matter of how healthy he actually is.
Not playing Diaw much at all doesn't make any sense to me unless Diaw reinjured something in game 1 and Pop can't play him -- even if he doesn't have Bonner's range, he can still shoot midrangers, and he's so much better in every other aspect of the game.
The one and only saving grace about playing smallball is having Kawhi out there. He has incredible reach and is a monster on the boards, so it's not like we're sticking Finley in or something. If we had had Kawhi to use against the Mavs in 2006 instead of Finley, we'd have another championship banner up in the rafters.
Your definition of role players, sounds like a starting caliber player.
Your definition of role players, sounds like a starting caliber player.
oops
Last edited by tesseractive; 05-09-2013 at 01:20 PM. Reason: Duplicate post.
Danny Green should be a role player. Good on defense and a solid shooter. He cannot create his own shot and he is not an all world defender but he is solid.
Matt Bonner should be the same type great shooter intelligent and determined defense in the post. He as a role but a good close out renders him worthless on offense. It's annoying.
Gary Neal otoh sucks at defense and if he is not contributing on offense then he needs to be yanked for someone else. His defense especially in the first half was an abomination. I feel encouraged because it seems we have figured out to at least slow them down. The second half defense was excellent. We just missed a whole lot of open shots.
You want evidence? Look at his freakin' pathetic playoff numbers since he got here.
FG%:
Regular Season, .468
Playoffs, .373
3PT%:
Regular Season, .417
Playoffs, .329
RPG:
Regular Season, 3.3
Playoffs, 2.2
APG:
Regular Season, .7
Playoffs, .4
PPG:
Regular Season, 6.5
Playoffs, 3.2
The clock turns May and he turns into a ing scrub.
Just to recap the stats for those of you who want to ignore them -
He shoots 10% worse in the playoffs than the regular season, scores half as many points, and does nothing to defend the paint.
This isn't a surprise, teams have six years of tape on this guy. They aren't covering him at the offensive end, and they see an easy layup at the other end if he's the only one there to guard the paint.
Pop for trotting him out there continually to get skull ed in the postseason.
sup DrZ...
The fact that Bogut won't go away from the paint, no matter if you play Bonner/Diaw or anybody else, make the whole exercise futile. We've also seen, especially on Game 2, that the Warriors do recover pretty well to 3 point shooters, including Bonner. Which is why we've seen him time and time again put the ball on the floor instead of actually getting a shot off.
They're giving both Tony and Tim the jumper. That's going to be there after every Tim/Tony pick & roll. They also know Tony for the most part won't force the issue when facing a shot blocker, and will kick out instead. Which is why recovering to the shooters isn't that complicated for them.
Those are his career numbers since joining the Spurs, for regular season and playoffs.
The minutes defense is a lame one for you, and just doesn't fly. Bonner's minutes, on average, have decreased by 5 minutes a night in the playoffs versus the regular season. That correlates to a 33% drop in minutes played for him.
So, if his stats dropped 33%, you'd have an argument. But his points scored dropped by half. His FG shooting drops off ten points, which should have NO correlation with a decrease in minutes. The only stat that drops in line with his decrease in minutes when looking at regular season to playoffs is rebounding, and let's be honest here - that stat is just absolutely comical. Doesn't matter if you're talking regular season or playoffs, show me big men playing the minutes he plays that can't round up more than 2-3 boards per game.
The dude is a poser, and he's burned this team in the playoffs more than Derek Fisher, Charles Barkley, Dirk Nowitzki, and Kobe Bryant combined.
God, this irritates me even more. I don't see any justification in going away from the frontcourt combo that produced excellent defensive AND offensive numbers all season long in favor of starting Matt Bonner/Gary Neal. It's irrational to me.You're correct. Pop hasn't done that since ... well, since game 1 when he started Diaw and played him 26 minutes.
2/10 troll attempt.
In the event anyone wants further details in addition to the cup Aggie just served Charlie:
"Bonner by the numbers. Reg season and playoffs"
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...by+the+numbers
Show me big men that can shoot the 3 like he does, put it on the floor and either score or find an open teammate off the dribble? How many are there besides him? Like 2 or 3 in the entire league? Rebounding isn't his strength but he's still at least average at it.
He's got one on his team in Diaw, that's a of a lot more efficient at it than he is in teh playoffs.
What would we ever do without those two points he scored last night? The five other night. Yeah, he's bringing the ing rain from downtown!Show me big men that can shoot the 3 like he does
7 points and 2 assists so far in this series in 35 minutes. Yeah, that guy's a game changer alright...put it on the floor and either score or find an open teammate off the dribble
7 and 2 in 35 minutes? How many AREN'T like him?!?!?!How many are there besides him? Like 2 or 3 in the entire league?
Out of 469 players in this league, Matt Bonner ranks 343 in rebounds per game.Rebounding isn't his strength but he's still at least average at it
He ranks 12th in rebounds per game on the Spurs. The only player who averages less rebounds is Patty Mills, and he's tied with De Colo and Joseph in that department. Last year he only had more RPG than James Anderson, Patty Mills, and Gary Neal.
The guy sucks.
You will be soo embraced at your coronation into the next PollyAnna Poppers Party!
Ohh ohhhh ohhhhhh!!
Chump is mixing you a drink as we speak.
Bonner skyrockets to 264th in rebounds per 40 minutes when you include all. Like 5'9" point guards.
Playoffs this season so far?
Of all forwards, Matty is 54th out of 76.
Which is really 54th out of 66.
The last 10 being players like Tracy McGrady with 2 minutes played entirely.
In fact, Boris Diaw has made as many three pointers in this series as Matt Bonner.
That's because the Red Garter Snake is afraid to shoot. He's put it on the floor and tried to penetrate (comical) more than he's thought about shooting this series. Simply, he's shook. Mental midget. Like every other close playoff series he's been a participant in since 2006.In how many opportunities? Do you reckon he'd score more than 20 points if he got 17 shots last night? Just wondering...
Still not even on the right side of the Mendoza Line when looking at rebounds per 48. This is too easy.Ok, now that you've got this moronic statement out of the way, where does he rank per 36 or 48? This is too easy.
Charlie Sheen gettin facialized severely.
Embarrassing.
I just don't get it. What is the point of Matt Bonner, Gary Neal and other one dimensional role players/shooters that the Spurs keep signing in the last 5 years or so. Once the legit teams clamp down on them defensively and take away their shots, they become completely useless out there. There is no point to even having them on the team, let alone the court.
Why not just do what I want and get some guys that can rebound, play defense, crash the boards and make athletic plays out there to keep the ball alive? That stuff won't disappear in the playoffs like one dimensional shooters can/do. If you're not going to get shooting out of Bonner and Neal in playoffs, then why not get someone that will give you something more consistent like defense, rebounding, the ability to make an athletic play? That is certainly better than getting nothing.
NO WAY would Pat Riley or Phil Jackson start him on a contending team, ever. If Pat Riley doesn't have an All-start type player he would rather start a guy like Joel Anthony, because even though he can't score for , he can still play defense and rebound. He knows that, that goes a lot further towards winning than one dimensional shooters do. Pop has completely lost it with this approach that he is taking. He is a straight liar too. Talking about defense all throughout the season and then starting Bonner and Neal in playoff games.
Also, being smart a smart player like Bonner on and off the court is one thing, but that doesn't really mean if you can do anything out on the court after the defense takes away your only skill. The Spurs keeping Bonner because of his basketball smarts and always choosing him over anyone remotely athletic is just stupid. Einstein was one smart guy, but he'd have no business being on the court and starting for an NBA team looking to win the championship.
to you and SenorSpur's point, i remember reading somewhere that Pop loves finding guys who can do one thing really well. So this could be on Pop. Why he wants guys who are more one dimensional than being well rounded, I'm not quite sure. I suppose it makes the system sound better.
I like Bonner, but it's more on Pop for using him beyond his capabilities.
Still, I'm not giving up on this season yet. We'll see how it all shakes out. Regardless of what happens, this will be an interesting offseason.
It doesn't make much difference once an opposing team locks in on a player's one skill and takes it away. We've seen this time and again in the playoffs, where it relates to one-trick ponies like Bonner and Neal. Defenses simply force them away from what they do best and unfortunately they have no counter. Bonner isn't Robert Horry and he never will be. Neal isn't a backup PG and he never will be.
For all Pop's supposed baskettball genius, he's an idiot for not only believing in such a philosophy regarding one-tooled players, but also for gambling away the final years of Duncan's HOF career by wasting roster spots on players like these.
Bonner is a player, a scorer from the perimeter, beyond the arc, but not on constant basis. Sometimes he's hot, sometimes though he's not..& when he's not he's like a zombie
Joke.
Ever hear of Taj Gibson and Jimmy Butler for Chicago? Darrell Arthur for Memphis? Or how about Jarrett Jack for the Warriors? All of which are contributing role players for their respective teams and all of which can play both ends of the court. It isn't rocket science. Pop has invested himself in a philosophy where he favors one-tooled players and it has continually back-fired on him. It's about time he get a clue.
Then explain why Diaw played 26 minutes in game 1 and only 7 minutes in game 2 especially after his great game 1 performance. When ball movement and defending players on the perimeter (on the switch) are needed, why would one play Bonner over Diaw?
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