“I want to be a person identified with San Antonio.” – Tiago Splitter.

**pgardn** · 06-02-2013

You don't have to tell me you didn't research your opinions. That was obvious as soon as I read your first post in his thread.

Also, I'm not sure watching games is a "lost art." It's actually very common. I can post NBA TV ratings for you, if you'd like?

Then you should have answered your own questions quite simply.
But I cant put a number on it, so I guess it has no validity.

**pgardn** · 06-02-2013

Originally Posted by _JaG

Please also address Tiago's post-up FG% relative to other big-earners in the NBA.

I already did in the other stat post.

But let's try this:
say you post Tiago mid block. So Tiago faces up, because he is a threat with that jumper, so you move up tighter to control this easy shot. Tiago then pivots again and positions himself with his back to the basket and gets his body a bit past you in better position for a romp at the rim. So now you are really worried so you bring a quick guard to double him because he will surely overpower your big with a brutish move to the hoop for an easy shot, his body keeping your big firmly planted while putting in an overpowering banker in the face. He has dropped stepped right thru your fly-like guard.

And One.

It happened so often...devastating.

**pgardn** · 06-02-2013

Originally Posted by _JaG

I just made it in Excel using data from Synergy. I was trying to make it easy to pgardn. He seemed rather misinformed.

Wow.

Excel.

I hear it has eyes.
Misinformed...
You are like a child who walked into the middle of a movie and have asked me how much your buttered popcorn cost.

**jag** · 06-02-2013

I'm not sure what to make of the last few posts in this thread. If I cared more, I'd sort through all the gibberish and address your points. You're free to think what you want, but the facts don't support what you seem to think you are viewing on TV.

My opinion on all this was very clear from the beginning.

Originally Posted by _JaG

Saying that Splitter's post-up game is not "polished" is laughable.

Relative to Duncan and Hakeem, I agree. Relative to the other bigmen in the League right now, his post-up footwork, awareness and passing is among the best in the League. He certainly needs more reps against NBA level post defenders, but there's little doubt he's got the skill to play in the post.

Arguing that he'd have trouble as a team's primary or secondary offensive option is also dumb, considering no one, including Tiago, expects him to go to a team as the top scoring option.

**pgardn** · 06-02-2013

What I understand is that you don't know how to question what stats can give one and have demonstrated perfectly how they can be misused.

I can tell you I agree that his footwork has gotten better on offense but it has not helped his post game much because he is a much better on the move finisher or a quick shot finisher after traffic has cleared. Usually using the opposite side of the basket because he cannot jump. He is BAD finisher in traffic. When you see him iso posted, and a team clearly wants the ball out of his hands, I will know he can post up.

when other teams actually leave shooters to at least feign a double, I will know he can post.
And somewhere along the way he needs a little face up jumper. No numbers, just an opinion on actually posting up with the intent to score, not just PLAYING the post position.

**exstatic** · 06-02-2013

Originally Posted by pgardn

Brand
Jefferson
Asik
Gasol and Randolph
Davis
Lopez

All from our division...
Who do you think he is better than offensively?

Certainly Asik. Probably Brand, too, since his best days are FAR behind him. The Lopez with the polished offense also plays in Brooklyn.

**pgardn** · 06-02-2013

Originally Posted by exstatic

Certainly Asik. Probably Brand, too, since his best days are FAR behind him. The Lopez with the polished offense also plays in Brooklyn.

Brand has definitely seen better days. But if you could give Tiago Brand's low post abilities right now, i would take it. NO way I would take him as a player over Tiago. The Lopez in NO This year was better at posting and scoring. This is of course is also an opinion that I feel most confident about.

I really like Tiago but his weaknesses are very apparent. Maybe Pop stunted his little jumper.
I just have a very difficult time seeing as a post up player, especially in the playoffs.

If we play Miami he will almost certainly have a smaller man on him so I hope to God he can punish them. Like West is doing injured and sick (last game).

**BackHome** · 06-02-2013

Tiago gets by being a very smart and crafty player and has players that can create easy shots for him. Saying that he needs to get stronger this summer "Dunk the Damn Ball" and if he is going to continue to use that Hook shot he needs to learn and make it better he might want to pay a certain ex NBA player on developing an American Hook shot.

**024** · 06-03-2013

Just play well in the finals Splitter and you will get a big payday. You might still get one without a good performance but it won't be from the Spurs.

**Man In Black** · 06-03-2013

Pg...this sounds like the kind of stuff us long timers use to go BAMA & HOYA on when it came to who should replace DRob. So many people wanted Michael Olowokandi- I hated that option so much, I called him SUCKMYWOKANDI. All those other players you talk about, are untouchable with how fiscally responsible they are.
Plus, Pop isn't so overly reliant on 4 down anymore so why are are we talking about Tiago's post up ability. He has decent ability, but it's the other things, it's the shots he doesn't take where a perfectly placed pass is more effective. Some of those other peeps you talk about on your list are BLACK HOLE BALL STOPPERS.

This Spurs team isn't heavily reliant on post ups and when Tim is gone, then perhaps what you say will pose an issue, or, knowing the Spurs, they'll have Chip find a way to work on his lofty release.

**Mal** · 06-03-2013

So take 50/5 and we good.

**Vito Corleone** · 06-03-2013

Here is the deal, as a support guy to a superstar PF he is the perfect guy to have on the floor with him. On his own, he is very good but not a guy the Spurs can ride.

Not sure what that makes him as he is still probably going to get paid, but if you are trying to tie down a offer for him the Spurs will make I'd say a 60 million over 5 years is good for starters

**hater** · 06-03-2013

Just dont get raped by chris in andersen

**FkLA** · 06-03-2013

Originally Posted by Spursfanfromafar

Tiago is a great guy who has adapted well with the Spurs. The fact that he has improved his Achilles heel - FT shooting - in just one year shows his commitment to improve himself. Here's hoping he will stay a long time with the Spurs and improve further upon his post game and maybe take some jumpers from 10-15 ft range in the coming years. He will be a force to reckon with.

Tiago shot over 70% from the line in Europe as well as his rookie year and this year. Pretty sure it was just the hand injury bothering him during last years playoffs.

**pgardn** · 06-03-2013

Originally Posted by Man In Black

Pg...this sounds like the kind of stuff us long timers use to go BAMA & HOYA on when it came to who should replace DRob. So many people wanted Michael Olowokandi- I hated that option so much, I called him SUCKMYWOKANDI. All those other players you talk about, are untouchable with how fiscally responsible they are.
Plus, Pop isn't so overly reliant on 4 down anymore so why are are we talking about Tiago's post up ability. He has decent ability, but it's the other things, it's the shots he doesn't take where a perfectly placed pass is more effective. Some of those other peeps you talk about on your list are BLACK HOLE BALL STOPPERS.

This Spurs team isn't heavily reliant on post ups and when Tim is gone, then perhaps what you say will pose an issue, or, knowing the Spurs, they'll have Chip find a way to work on his lofty release.

Very Randomly:

We would not be in the finals without Tiago. Brand was a giant black hole when he was used. And since Tony runs the offense now, Tiago fits in wonderfully on offense. He is extremely quick on the PnR with Parker. He finds open spots after Tony or Manu penetrates. The list was made up on the fly using our division for comparison purposes with limited criteria.

My contention is/was basically that if he goes elsewhere, he might be expected to do more than he can elsewhere... The teams that think sharing the ball means we take turns going one on one... Tiago will not thrive on that type of team because he is not going to hurt you with the ball creating his own shot in the post. If for instance Cousin's left Sacremento, That would be absolutely the wrong place for him. He needs a team. We need him, and he needs us.

I would like to make a list of teams I think he could start on next to a good companion big. Work beckons...

**Drom John** · 06-03-2013

Manu is getting maybe 80% of last year's salary.
Jackson is getting 0% of last year's salary.
Splitter will get paid. Off SpursTalk, I've read a couple of times somewhere, that Splitter could expect Asik money except spread evenly instead of a poisin pill.

Splitter is 2nd in his draft class in WS/48 only a tick behind #1 (though Splitter never played as an overwhelmed 19 year old).

**Spur|n|Austin** · 06-03-2013

Originally Posted by pgardn

Then please finish around the rim.

If Tiago finds himself on another team without Duncan he better get ready for some hatred from his new team's fans. The shots he gets will be much tougher. His post game is not polished, it's gonna be rough.

His post game was already considered polished when he was in Spain; I thought everybody was under the impression and already knew that his slow start could be contributed to the injury that hurt his PT..

**superbigtime** · 06-03-2013

Signing him to a 4 year contract would be awesome. Love Tiago.

**rmt** · 06-03-2013

Tiago is going to get paid. Duncan is 37 years old and we're all witness to what's happening to MIA without a true center. Spurs are in the West with the 2 Gasols, Randolph, DH, Asik, Love, etc, etc. His pick and roll game fits perfectly with TP and Manu. This is the most international of all teams, and he's good friends with Manu. If it weren't for Pop leaving him on the bench for 2 years, I'd say there's a high probability he'll stay.

**jimbo** · 06-03-2013

Originally Posted by pgardn

NO is a totally guard oriented scoring team and quite bad. They used Davis more for over the top dunks because they already have the lane clogged with Lopez. Davis is naturally a better player in almost every facet of the game compared to Tiago. If we had a chance to take him straight up for Tiago... I would explode, NOW. And so would Duncan and Popovich.

Asik is a better outside shooter than a post player and again was used as such in their up tempo style. Having watched him on just a few post possessions he is better than Tiago in the post IMO. This, however, would be the one guy I could give you.

I honestly feel dumber from reading your posts. I stopped here, I'm not reading any further.

You've only seen Asik for a few possessions and you're making any claims about him? Dude has AWFUL hands. His post game consists of him turning around and dunking, if he can't do that he can't do anything in the post. He has NEVER shown flashes of anything like Tiago Olajuwon vs OKC this year.

**pgardn** · 06-03-2013

Originally Posted by jimbo

I honestly feel dumber from reading your posts. I stopped here, I'm not reading any further.

You've only seen Asik for a few possessions and you're making any claims about him? Dude has AWFUL hands. His post game consists of him turning around and dunking, if he can't do that he can't do anything in the post. He has NEVER shown flashes of anything like Tiago Olajuwon vs OKC this year.

You were dumber before you read them.

Tiago Olajuwon...

*Crinkle trash*

**tesseractive** · 06-03-2013

Originally Posted by Charlie Sheen

Extremely misleading stats. For example, does it take into account when a player is being double teamed? Also, a player like Tiago is not going to be posted unless there is a mismatch in his favor, either, so him shooting 44% against someone 6'7" or under isn't really indicative of him having a polished post game. Players like Jefferson and Lopez are guarded by 7 footers constantly and double teamed a good amount. Tiago has pretty decent footwork(although he gets away with a lot of walks), but his moves are all finesse and soft, like a poor man's Pau Gasol. A part of me thinks Spurfan will be shocked when he resign him at 6-7 million a year.

This is actually a really good take, IMO. When I've seen Tiago post up, it's usually when teams are trying to hide a smaller defender on him, or when he gets a defensive rotation that he can take advantage of. If he's got a traditional big on him, the team tries to exploit other, more favorable openings in the defense.