Mavs: Monta Ellis to the Mavs

[AaronY]

Cubes and Donnie using that destination appeal and snaggin up Monta Ellis from heavy compe ion for just 3 years and 30 million dollars.

Lol

[Phillip]

i think the point is to gather as much talent as possible, and trade them down the road for other more valuable assets (picks or star power)

that's pretty much what they did in 03-04 when they got jamison/walker, and turned it into Harris/Stackhouse/Terry/Van Horn by 2005, and ended up in the finals the next year.

still baffles me that cubes didn't just keep the le team, and do the same with them. having pieces like Butler/Barea/Chandler could have given them a MUCH better chance of landing a star like CP3, Howard, Harden, etc...

[monosylab1k]

We bout to go full blown small ball.

[monosylab1k]

tbh it really isnt a bad smallball lineup. Our defense will be horrid but it was going to be anyways.

[Thread]

I don't want to come off petty, but, let us not forget it was your old dad that cited Barea first. We're not forgetting that...EVER.

Let us proceed...

[HarlemHeat37]

Like the Lakers, Dallas would have been better off tanking in a great draft, tbh, but guys like Kobe and Dirk aren't going to accept tanking, so you might as well collect talent and make a run for a bottom seed, tbh..being 8th is better than being 10th/11th..

Dallas is going to get murdered in the paint, but like Mono said, their small lineup should be really good..Calderon/Harris/Ellis/Carter/Dirk is top-notch perimeter talent, tbh..

[DAF86]

Like the Lakers, Dallas would have been better off tanking in a great draft, tbh, but guys like Kobe and Dirk aren't going to accept tanking, so you might as well collect talent and make a run for a bottom seed, tbh..being 8th is better than being 10th/11th..

Dallas is going to get murdered in the paint, but like Mono said, their small lineup should be really good..Calderon/Harris/Ellis/Carter/Dirk is top-notch perimeter talent, tbh..

I doubt those 5 guys will play together much if at all.

[monosylab1k]

Calderon/Harris/Ellis/Marion/Dirk will probably be a more likely lineup, tho Dirk at center is scary bad for our defense, along with dog rebounding.

[benefactor]

At least they will be fun to watch. Better than having to watch Kobe's crippled ass hobble up and down the court all season. But Kobefan won't mind...they will just talk about what a great ing warrior he is.

[DPG21920]

They aren't even going to be fun to watch IMO. They aren't really ahletic, their spacing will be meh because outside of Dirk/Calderon, no one can really shoot & their defense will be horrific.

They have to be acquiring talent to move (as Philip said) but the thing is, they really didn't acquire a lot of talent and they are on longer contracts. If you are going to push for the playoffs (bottom seeds) why not sign the most upside guys (i.e. Bynum)? If it works, you are legit and if it doesn't you get a great pick. You also maintain your cap flexibility. Now, the Mavs sort of have to move some players if they want cap space and you don't want to be in a position to have to do anything.

If healthy they will still be a decent team: Calderon/Monta/Marion/Dirk/Wright or Dalembert type with a bench of Harris/Carter/Wright or Dalembert-type, but damn, they royaly messed this up for Dirk.

[LkrFan]

Depends on Kobe. Dirk is better than Pau and Nash is not significantly better than Calderon at this stage. Maybe he is still better but not by the mountain he was three years ago. No MWP and I would argue Marion is better than anything we have at SF/PF outside of Pau. Bottom line is no one knows what Kobe will be next year. Montae is better than Nick Young or Meeks. Vince too.

Agreed - but I'm not worried about Kobe. He's ahead of schedule in terms of his rehab - as has already been reported in that Laker Times vid. I honestly don't think he will have to "carry" the Lakers as much as others think. We've had some nice additions to our previously putrid bench (Farmar, Young, and yes - even Caveman). Like I said before, many players were made to look really good in MDA's system. Scoring was a problem last year due to a ton of injuries and Howard's dumbass not wanting to play PNR - even though he was running it with the 2nd best PNR PG of all time. The few times we ran it, he scored at a high clip. SMH.

Dirk is better than Pau but I expect that gap to shorten this year for a few reasons. Pau is a center. MB and MDA both tried to make him play PF to fit next to Bynum and D12 - shooting 3s and . He is our starting center this year and at this stage of his career he is not agile enough to play PF no more. Another reason is this is his contract year. Most players ball hard in that year. It's put up or shut up and he knows it. Him and Kobe have tremendous chemistry that took a back seat th Bynum's 2011 emergence as an all star and placation of D12 this past year. Playing in MDA's system, I expect an all star season from him this year - barring an injury.

Collectively, Nash and Farmar are better than Calderon. It doesn't matter if Matrix is better than our PFs or if you think Monta Ellis is better than Nick Young or Meeks. They still have to play the games. Last year was a train wreck no doubt. I know that the Lakers aren't winning for a while, but to think that the Mavs will be better this year? I disagree son.

[monosylab1k]

The best option is to just trade Dirk and tank but Cuban is too stubborn and stupid for that. Next best option is to have a team that can compete for a playoff spot and is fun to watch. I think this team will score a lot of points, which is "fun" for the casual fans. For true Mavs fans and more in depth basketball fans, this team will be more frustrating than fun.

[LkrFan]

They aren't even going to be fun to watch IMO. They aren't really ahletic, their spacing will be meh because outside of Dirk/Calderon, no one can really shoot & their defense will be horrific.

They have to be acquiring talent to move (as Philip said) but the thing is, they really didn't acquire a lot of talent and they are on longer contracts. If you are going to push for the playoffs (bottom seeds) why not sign the most upside guys (i.e. Bynum)? If it works, you are legit and if it doesn't you get a great pick. You also maintain your cap flexibility. Now, the Mavs sort of have to move some players if they want cap space and you don't want to be in a position to have to do anything.

If healthy they will still be a decent team: Calderon/Monta/Marion/Dirk/Wright or Dalembert type with a bench of Harris/Carter/Wright or Dalembert-type, but damn, they royaly messed this up for Dirk.

Cubes outsmarted himself by not signing Bynum. Not signing Bynum is dumber than not retaining Daddy Tyson.

[DPG21920]

The best option is to just trade Dirk and tank but Cuban is too stubborn and stupid for that. Next best option is to have a team that can compete for a playoff spot and is fun to watch. I think this team will score a lot of points, which is "fun" for the casual fans. For true Mavs fans and more in depth basketball fans, this team will be more frustrating than fun.

Well I don't know if Monta & Dirk = a ton of points. Wright is not a scorer. Calderon is not a scorer. Marion is not a scorer. You might be able to say Harris/VC are scorers in addition to Dirk/Monta, but they don't seem to have 3 guys that can average 20 PPG.

[DPG21920]

Agreed - but I'm not worried about Kobe. He's ahead of schedule in terms of his rehab - as has already been reported in that Laker Times vid. I honestly don't think he will have to "carry" the Lakers as much as others think. We've had some nice additions to our previously putrid bench (Farmar, Young, and yes - even Caveman). Like I said before, many players were made to look really good in MDA's system. Scoring was a problem last year due to a ton of injuries and Howard's dumbass not wanting to play PNR - even though he was running it with the 2nd best PNR PG of all time. The few times we ran it, he scored at a high clip. SMH.

Dirk is better than Pau but I expect that gap to shorten this year for a few reasons. Pau is a center. MB and MDA both tried to make him play PF to fit next to Bynum and D12 - shooting 3s and . He is our starting center this year and at this stage of his career he is not agile enough to play PF no more. Another reason is this is his contract year. Most players ball hard in that year. It's put up or shut up and he knows it. Him and Kobe have tremendous chemistry that took a back seat th Bynum's 2011 emergence as an all star and placation of D12 this past year. Playing in MDA's system, I expect an all star season from him this year - barring an injury.

Collectively, Nash and Farmar are better than Calderon. It doesn't matter if Matrix is better than our PFs or if you think Monta Ellis is better than Nick Young or Meeks. They still have to play the games. Last year was a train wreck no doubt. I know that the Lakers aren't winning for a while, but to think that the Mavs will be better this year? I disagree son.

So you think an injured Kobe + Farmar + Kaman + Young is a net gain over losing Dwight + Ebanks + Jamison + healthy Kobe + Duhon + Morris + Clark (who saved LA's season tbh..) + MWP?

[monosylab1k]

Well I don't know if Monta & Dirk = a ton of points. Wright is not a scorer. Calderon is not a scorer. Marion is not a scorer. You might be able to say Harris/VC are scorers in addition to Dirk/Monta, but they don't seem to have 3 guys that can average 20 PPG.

This team has a ton of fast break finishers and a PG who can orchestrate one. Ellis/Harris/Marion/Carter/Wright can all run the floor and finish. Dirk is a great trailing 3pt shooter. They definitely have the personnel to put up points, and a coach who can put them in position to do it. The problem is their defense and rebounding which will hurt their fast break opportunities.

[BatManu20]

being "in the hunt for the 8th seed" is probably the worst position a team can be in, unless its a young and up and coming team. this just means they aren't contenders and aren't allowing themselves to make rapid improvements via the draft.

Yep. Fighting for the 8th seed = NBA purgatory. Worst position a team can be in. Might as well tank tbh.

I think in this case though, Cuban is doing anything and everything he can to salvage SOMETHING that their fan base can root for now that his "signing a top FA" plan has backfired terribly.

[DPG21920]

Well, I disagree some. I don't think they will be as good offensively as you say. The only one who can run the fast break well is Calderon. If he is on the court the best case scenario break-wise is:

Calderon/Monta/VC/Marion/Dirk. To me, that is not a ton of points team and they aren't that athletic either to really get a ton of fast break points. They are decently athletic in that line up, but not enough to consistently get fast break points. In the half court, they will be just ok as well.

[monosylab1k]

Well, I disagree some. I don't think they will be as good offensively as you say. The only one who can run the fast break well is Calderon. If he is on the court the best case scenario break-wise is:

Calderon/Monta/VC/Marion/Dirk. To me, that is not a ton of points team and they aren't that athletic either to really get a ton of fast break points. They are decently athletic in that line up, but not enough to consistently get fast break points. In the half court, they will be just ok as well.

Well, you've been wrong bout dem Mavs before so we'll see.

[DPG21920]

[jeebus]

Well, you've been wrong bout dem Mavs before so we'll see.

you're too beautiful for this forum; it will be painful watching future threads from you if/when the Mavs begin to implode.

[LkrFan]

So you think an injured Kobe + Farmar + Kaman + Young is a net gain over losing Dwight + Ebanks + Jamison + healthy Kobe + Duhon + Morris + Clark (who saved LA's season tbh..) + MWP?

I hear what you are saying. The Lakers didn't have a reliable bench. So MDA (for better or worse) was forced to play Kobe, etc. a ton of minutes. I believe that Caveman, Farmar, and Young will allow him to somewhat rest the starters. The Lakers should have been an offensive juggernaut (on paper) last year but they wasn't. Too many chucked long jumpers and 3s - which lead to fastbreak opportunities for the opposition - coupled with being one of the worst transition defenses league wide often spelled doom more often than not. Why did they have to chuck so many 3s? Because D12 was a turnover (3.0/game) waiting to happen which also lead to fast breaks. Our 2nd best post player - Pau - was made to shoot 3s to make room for D12's no post game having ass. Our best post player - Kobe - couldn't go down there and abuse PGs/SGs/SFs at will and was relegated to chucking from the outside. It was a disaster.

The FAs we picked up will fit better. Why? Because they all can shoot outside of the paint. Caveman can shoot. Young can shoot. Farmar (wildcard) can shoot too. That will all lead to spacing. How often did teams just pack the paint on the Lakers, collect the rebound, then run out for an easy 2 (or and-1)? Too often for my taste.

We'll be better and more balanced offensively but take a couple steps back defensively (if that is even possible ). We'll put up points and notch between 45 or 50 wins and eek out a playoff spot. This is an evaluation year for the Lakers. Who will they retain for 2014 - when they have a ton of cap space? Who will they let go? Given that of the 9 players we have under contract, only 2 are on the payroll for 2014 (Nash at $9M and Sacre at about $1M), I expect every player to be auditioning their asses off for next year (especially Pau).

To address the bolded: Edranks didn't play. Duhon sucked ass. There is a reason why Morris wasn't retained. Jamison had a few good offensive games and is replaceable. Now, the losses of MWP (defensively) and Clark (has a lot of upside IMO) to me are the worst. Would have loved to see Clark blossom as a Laker. I hope he does well 80 games next year.

Bottom line: with no championship expectations, I will sit back and enjoy this upcoming season. I still think they are better than the Mavs though.

[DPG21920]

It's a legit argument (Mavs v LA) but with Kobe's injury and the loss of talent/depth, I have to give the nod to the crappy Mavs over the crappy Lakers at this point.

[Rogue]

We have a legit #2 option now at the very least. hope we still have money to sign a decent big

[Rogue]

i think the point is to gather as much talent as possible, and trade them down the road for other more valuable assets (picks or star power)

that's pretty much what they did in 03-04 when they got jamison/walker, and turned it into Harris/Stackhouse/Terry/Van Horn by 2005, and ended up in the finals the next year.

still baffles me that cubes didn't just keep the le team, and do the same with them. having pieces like Butler/Barea/Chandler could have given them a MUCH better chance of landing a star like CP3, Howard, Harden, etc...

aging stars wouldn't appeal to those teams though. like Findog often says, the best we can do now is stockpile trading assets in the forms of young talents and picks, while waiting for a chance to land a superstar like Boston and Houston did. It doesn't make any big difference to me whether they make playoffs or miss, whether they get asskicked in the 1st round or the conference finals, but getting Wiggins or anyone else wouldn't guarantee us another championship run either. at least we're staying relevant, we have a team that's competent enough for a playoff spot, just go there playing and hope for the best imho. I don't see us contending for another le anytime soon but anything can happen in this league, no one (except Ghazi) thought we were le contenders in 2010 either if memory serves me well.