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  1. #51
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    printing currency to pay off debt kills the value of the dollar, which s over people like you and i that use dollars, tbh. it also makes the US much less credible as a borrower and will probably get the country's credit rating even lower. especially when you consider how astronomical the debt is.

    thats what zimbambwe did a couple of years back. they were in debt to the world bank/imf and other countries and they just printed so much that their currency essentially died and lost all value. not saying that would happen to the dollar, but its the principle, el

    heck, nothing is stopping the treasury from printing a bunch of 1 trillion dollar bills. its within their power and they could pay of our debts overnight! why don't they, tbh?
    I agree that inflation is the boogeyman in that situation, and the *main* reason you want to slowly at least balance the budget. Which again, has nothing to do with a household faces when their debt bottoms out.

    What's stopping treasury from printing a bunch of 1 trillion bills in one instant and declaring the debt paid is indeed massive inflation. But they don't have to do that, since the world is still very much hungry for Treasuries, and the slow, controlled yearly inflation slashes a good chunk of debt every year.

    zimbambwe owed in US dollars. Countries that don't control the currency of their debt are a completely different story, as we discussed with angrydude a few days back.

    There's one more thing to think about... right now the US, due to the standard of living, isn't compe ive with other economies in certain areas like manufacturing and the like. Barring imposing artificial solutions such as tariffs, either our standard of living will have to progressively come down or the other economy's standard of living has to come up in order to compete. The US can either wait it out for the other economies to prop up the standard of living, or progressively deteriorate it's own (through like you said, inflation). I'm not advocating either, but it's something else to think about.

  2. #52
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    "printing currency to pay off debt kills the value of the dollar"

    myth, where is the devalued dollar while the Fed and treasury continue to pump $Ts into the economy, have been for 6 years?

    devalued dollar? inflation? nowhere to be seen.



  3. #53
    All Hail the Legatron The Reckoning's Avatar
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    econ 101: wealth is a constant in the long term. there will be inflation unless the govt can rein it in through quan ative easing.

  4. #54
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    "wealth is a constant in the long term"

    so wealth can't be created? wealth doesn't increase?





  5. #55
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    "printing currency to pay off debt kills the value of the dollar"

    myth, where is the devalued dollar while the Fed and treasury continue to pump $Ts into the economy, have been for 6 years?

    devalued dollar? inflation? nowhere to be seen.


    you can't he serious

  6. #56
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    I agree that inflation is the boogeyman in that situation, and the *main* reason you want to slowly at least balance the budget. Which again, has nothing to do with a household faces when their debt bottoms out.

    What's stopping treasury from printing a bunch of 1 trillion bills in one instant and declaring the debt paid is indeed massive inflation. But they don't have to do that, since the world is still very much hungry for Treasuries, and the slow, controlled yearly inflation slashes a good chunk of debt every year.

    zimbambwe owed in US dollars. Countries that don't control the currency of their debt are a completely different story, as we discussed with angrydude a few days back.

    There's one more thing to think about... right now the US, due to the standard of living, isn't compe ive with other economies in certain areas like manufacturing and the like. Barring imposing artificial solutions such as tariffs, either our standard of living will have to progressively come down or the other economy's standard of living has to come up in order to compete. The US can either wait it out for the other economies to prop up the standard of living, or progressively deteriorate it's own (through like you said, inflation). I'm not advocating either, but it's something else to think about.
    How long until we actually address the debt though? Even putting the current debt aside (laughably) the way our budget is set up, it's going its keep climbing astronomically. It's easy for us to ignore it now and "wait for other countries standards of living to go up" because you and I haven't felt the effects of the debt yet. If we aren't in the position to pay the debt at the moment, the least we could do is stop piling it on

  7. #57
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    you can't he serious
    show me you data, joker

    when Dems were trying to pass a stimulus (a bigger one would have helped much more), the Repugs were screaming "hyper inflation", but it never appeared, as consumer demand increased a little AND cost-push hyper-inflation hasn't arrived, either.

    so, where's your evidence?

  8. #58
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    show me you data, joker

    when Dems were trying to pass a stimulus (a bigger one would have helped much more), the Repugs were screaming "hyper inflation", but it never appeared, as consumer demand increased a little AND cost-push hyper-inflation hasn't arrived, either.

    so, where's your evidence?
    basic laws of supply and demand, tbh

  9. #59
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    germany post ww2

  10. #60
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    zimbambwe recently

  11. #61
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    i mean, if you work hard at your job and make 100k a year, and tomorrow they just print 4 trillion dollars, it sorta makes it a big joke doesn't it? use your head

  12. #62
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    How long until we actually address the debt though? Even putting the current debt aside (laughably) the way our budget is set up, it's going its keep climbing astronomically. It's easy for us to ignore it now and "wait for other countries standards of living to go up" because you and I haven't felt the effects of the debt yet. If we aren't in the position to pay the debt at the moment, the least we could do is stop piling it on
    We addressed it in a bipartisan way a mere 13 years ago. It wasn't a full blown solution, but a great, great start. Then we took a on it, but it goes to show that if there's a will there's a way.

    tbh, this country has been much deeper in debt when it comes to production/debt ratio (see post WWII). Treasuries are still in very high demand. IMO, that's why addressing the debt long term has to be done, but this thing of shutting down the government/defaulting over it, is just crazy stuff.

    i mean, if you work hard at your job and make 100k a year, and tomorrow they just print 4 trillion dollars, it sorta makes it a big joke doesn't it? use your head
    You need to state why would the treasury do that, and how much do other countries print themselves. The value of the dollar isn't only determined by how many are issued, but also how does it compare against other currencies.

  13. #63
    Deandre Jordan Sucks m>s's Avatar
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    yeah money supply expansion is just a hidden inflation tax aimed at the middle class, since taxes are unpopular they just do it subtly instead of openly

    and the inflation rate is NOT at 1.9% or whatever like they say it is

  14. #64
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    yeah money supply expansion is just a hidden inflation tax aimed at the middle class, since taxes are unpopular they just do it subtly instead of openly

    and the inflation rate is NOT at 1.9% or whatever like they say it is
    And lower class too.

  15. #65
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    germany didn't control their debt. we are just going in circles at this point.

  16. #66
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    We addressed it in a bipartisan way a mere 13 years ago. It wasn't a full blown solution, but a great, great start. Then we took a on it, but it goes to show that if there's a will there's a way.

    tbh, this country has been much deeper in debt when it comes to production/debt ratio (see post WWII). Treasuries are still in very high demand. IMO, that's why addressing the debt long term has to be done, but this thing of shutting down the government/defaulting over it, is just crazy stuff.



    You need to state why would the treasury do that, and how much do other countries print themselves. The value of the dollar isn't only determined by how many are issued, but also how does it compare against other currencies.
    A country that is doing well economically has the luxury of not having to print as much currency, which aids in its values. Your ability to repay debts is also key as it makes your currency and bonds more covetable. I absolutely agree the shutdown was moronic. But there is going to have to be some serious policy change to get back to a budget surplus or at least minimize the monstrous deficit we keep finding ourselves in

  17. #67
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    germany didn't control their debt. we are just going in circles at this point.
    I brought this up as an example of printing currency deflating value of currency.

  18. #68
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    I brought this up as an example of printing currency deflating value of currency.
    But the two issues go hand in hand. We owe our debt in dollars so when we print money we get a 1:1 return on it. Germany would print money and that would devalue the currency proportionally relative to whatever exchange they were using. The moneychanger was aware of what they were trying to do so of course they wanted more marks for a pound of gold.

    In our case there is no moneychanger. There is inflationary pressure sure but people are still buying the debt at the same rates so it's not as mucha s you think. This goes back to why we ourselves if we default. That will devalue the dollar at it's core.

  19. #69
    Believe. AntiChrist's Avatar
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    Maybe a bunch of you kids could move to Detroit and rebuild that mofo

  20. #70
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    Maybe a bunch of you kids could move to Detroit and rebuild that mofo
    See, there's a great example: States can't issue money. That's why they get in the mess they do.

  21. #71
    Believe. AntiChrist's Avatar
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    Printing money isn't a good thing, Elnono

  22. #72
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    Printing money isn't a good thing, Elnono
    What do you mean? This country has been printing money since pretty much forever. A small amount of inflation actually brings a lot of positives to the economy.

    The problem is high inflation or even hyperinflation.

  23. #73
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    that's not evidence, tbh

  24. #74
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    that's not evidence, tbh
    There's plenty of evidence on the effects of high inflation or hyperinflation on nations, if you care to look.

    You were asking a different question (why QE didn't bring either of those?), and there's plenty of reasons for that too.

  25. #75
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    There's plenty of evidence on the effects of high inflation or hyperinflation on nations, if you care to look.

    You were asking a different question (why QE didn't bring either of those?), and there's plenty of reasons for that too.
    so the Repugs were screaming hyperinflation to kill or reduce the stimulus, while there were plenty of reasons the stimulus and QE wouldn't produce hyperinflation. Excellent!

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