Star tracker: Manu is No. 1

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Hispanic is not a race. If so, define me the physiognomy or morphology of the "hispanic" race. See the problem here?.



It's like saying Alexis Bledel (one of the girls in Sin City) is only "white"... when in fact she is also "hispanic" (since her first language is spanish).
Let's meet in the middle... "hispanic" is not a race, but I'd broaden the spectrum to include the non-spanish-speakers by saying, maybe it is a "culture" and includes people who lives and feel the way latin-americans live and feel.
Is that ok?
But by definition of "race"... no way.



In my country nobody asks "what race are you?" or "what are you?" (Maybe just for religion, but very few cares). No goverment agency has a database with "records" of certain ethnic groups to "track them".
We know who could qualify as a mestizo or who would be a chinese (ok, I mix japanese, chinese and koreans most of the time ) but as far i know, we are all argentinians.

Si estas insinuando que no existen estereotipos o racismo en Argentina, estas hablando al pedo chavon!

[manubili]

Si estas insinuando que no existen estereotipos o racismo en Argentina, estas hablando al pedo chavon!

Racismo y discriminacion hay, claro que si. Lo que no hay es definiciones raciales, tipo "los indio-argentinos" para nominar a las personas de tez oscura desciendentes de nativos, nos arreglamos con "los negros" o "cabecitas" y la verdad no sé con qué me quedo.

[timvp]

Why Pujols and not David Ortiz, or Manny Ramirez? He didn't win the World Series, or get voted MVP...

I'd be happy with any of the three.

[hendrix]

Si estas insinuando que no existen estereotipos o racismo en Argentina, estas hablando al pedo chavon!

Vos te metiste al pedo. Yo estoy diciendo que al menos (por ahora) los gobiernos aca no piden "identificarse" que es cada uno como en USA.
Racismo sabemos bien que existe flaco, no vivo en un termo.

[Supergirl]

I'd be happy with any of the three.

Pujols hasn't proved he can win, though, just that he'sa good slugger. It's the difference between Carlos Delfino and Manu Ginobili.

[Obi wan Ginobili]

I dunno what they are smoking but Manu is not a latino.

[WalterBenitez]

I dunno what they are smoking but Manu is not a latino.

What??

[whottt]

Maybe because I come from a country where baseball is less popular than soccer in the US, but this is the first time I hear those names in bold.

That's why I believe this kind of lists are wrong, I mean, in Argentina, the attention is on soccer, basketball, volleyball, motorsport, boxing, tennis, maybe rugby and field hockey.

In South America, the main attention is on soccer, and depending on which country, it rotates between tennis, volleyball, motorsport, boxing, basketball. The only South American country that has baseball as a major sport is Venezuela, which is also the only South American country that doesn't have soccer as their main sport.

Central America is closer to baseball, but in the main sports market of the region, Mexico, soccer is the most popular sport. From what I know, Boxing and Motorsport are popular too.

If they are going to include Spain, well, then I have no doubts that Pau Gasol is far more influential in Spain than Rafael Nadal, maybe even with Fernando Alonso, even when the Grizzlies player hasn't won anything.

The point here is that making one of this lists is a very estimative thing, because Latin America is not an geneous region. I don't think that Manu has such a big influence in countries that don't give a damn about basketball like Chile, Bolivia, Paraguay, Peru, Ecuador, Colombia.

I am pretty sure that Baseball is more popular in the Dominican Republic...where those two guys are from. Not to mention Cuba, which means it is of interest to the millions of Cuban Americans. And baseball is pretty popular in Mexico as well...not to mention Puerto Rico...I'd say it's either more popular than Soccer or a close second to those regions.


Also observe the criteria for the list:

Deportes.com, with emphasis on the candidate's recent impact, influence and achievements.

One of those two Dominicans just won the World Series , is generally considered to be one of the greatest pitchers ever, and the other one is arguably considered the best baseball player in the World right now.

And Manu has been on the World Stage a lot lately, winning...plus he's played all over the world.

I think a large part of the influence factor is their popularity in their home countries...

And just because Soccer is far and away more popular world wide doesn't mean it's far and away more popular with "hispanics" and in Latin America..I bet it's a close second once you factor in the American hispanics.

[whottt]

The list is done by Americans for Americans, hence the mistakes.

And I don't mean in in a disrespectful way.

Uh...no it's not...it's called ESPN Deportes and it employs hispanics to market for hispanics and Latin America...that's why it's ing printed and broadcast in Spanish.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

And just because Soccer is far and away more popular world wide doesn't mean it's far and away more popular with "hispanics" and in Latin America..I bet it's a close second once you factor in the American hispanics.

Who are you refering too when you say "American Hispanics"? If you mean hispanics in the US then they are not the majority. If you mean hispanics in the Americas (including South America) they you would be dead wrong to think soccer is not the most popular sport. Baseball doesn't even come close, soccer is more popular by a mile even if you consider hispanics living in the states.

[Ginobilly]

I dunno what they are smoking but Manu is not a latino.

The real question is what are you smoking? Can we have some too?

1. Manu is from a Latin American country which automatically makes him a Latino.

2. Manu first Language is Spanish which makes him Hispanic according to our country's definition of Hispanic.


I think this whole beef about Manu being a Latino/Hispanic is coming from the Italian Americans here. Manu does not identify with Italian Americans just how Hispanics here in the US don't identify with Spaniards. Totally different people.

end of debate here.

[whottt]

Who are you refering too when you say "American Hispanics"? If you mean hispanics in the US then they are not the majority. If you mean hispanics in the Americas (including South America) they you would be dead wrong to think soccer is not the most popular sport. Baseball doesn't even come close, soccer is more popular by a mile even if you consider hispanics living in the states.

Cubans, Venezuelans, Puerto Ricans and it's pretty popular with Mexicans as well(although not as popular as Soccer, but it's second)...etc. I am sure there are more. They have professional baseball leagues in Mexico and Puerto Rico and it's the national sport of Cuba....Castro almost became a major league baseball player...he actually pitched in a minor league game for a US team before he became a benevolent dictator...so it is a sport of interest to all the Cuban Americans as well.

And I can't help it you are ignorant of the Dominican Republic...but guess what? It's a Latin American country filled with hispanics...and America has a lot of Cubans and Puerto Ricans...those countries are baseball countries, not to mention that Peurto Rico is a US territory...and even if Soccer is more popular in Mexico...Baseball is pretty popular there.

I'll bet you that baseball is the most popular sport in the Dominican Republic and Puerto Rico...that's all those mofos do is play baseball.

You think it's impressive that 5 Argentinians play in the NBA?

This is a list of Dominicans that play or have played major league baseball:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/bio/D-R-_born.shtml

Cubans:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/bio/Cuba_born.shtml

Puerto Ricans:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/bio/P-R-_born.shtml

Mexicans:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/bio/Mexico_born.shtml

Venezuelans:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/bi...ela_born.shtml

You know how many Argentinians and Brazilians have played MLB?

None.


I think you are guilty of being ignorant of other parts of Latin America...as evidenced by the fact that you don't know who ing Pedro Martinez is...I gurantee you he is like a demi god in the Dominican Republic and he is considered to be one of the greatest pitchers ever...Roberto Clemente in Puerto Rico is immprtal and so Fernando Valenzuela in Mexico...not to mention Dennis Martinez in Nicaragua.

It's more popular in Latin America than you realize, maybe not in South America...but in this hemisphere of the world it is the most popular sport in many countries...when you combine that with the huge hispanic population in America and if you ever watched a MLB game, and saw how many players from those countries play in MLB...you'd know that.

Go look at the front page of ESPN right now and you will see a Cuban baseball player on the front of it.



Sammy Sosa was the Maradonna of the Dominican Republic...and he fell from gracee similarly.

This past world series...

4 of the best players were from the Dominican..

Manny Ramirez, Pedro, David Ortiz and Albert Pujols.




Don't tell me it's not popular in those countries and Puerto Rico because we have 6 million of those mother ers playing on MLB teams.

[whottt]

Hendrix...you're a ing idiot.

Patriotic?

Excuse me asshole but I didn't see any of our players wrapping themselves in the ing American flag after we won the le...Get off your ing high horse IGNORANT.

You know why we call people hispanic here? Because ing Cubans and Puerto Ricans don't like being called Mexican...it's a PC device designed to appease overly sensitive minority groups. You see a spanish speaking person...you call them hispanic, it's easier that way and you don't step on toes.


Is the ing the CIA the reason we have Miss Hispanic USA and Miss Black USA as well? The Latino Grammy Awards? Black History Month?

Is the CIA making TimVP post the Dominican flag?


The minority groups themselves segregate those things nowdays and it's got nothing to do with any type of race or cultural bias except on the part of they themselves.

I personally don't like it either...my family came from Germany...big ing deal...if Germany was great we'd still be there. They thought Germany sucked and so they didn't try to bring it with them...which makes them better than the people who hate this country yet come here just for money...

Those people are called s in America.

Me? I could give 2 s if Dirk Nowiski has a good game even though I am of German descent...it does not posess me to go wrap myself in the German flag even though it is a country of my ancestry.

Similarly...I think if you asked most Americans if they liked Poland or English speaking Canada better right now...they'd say Poland....

So your accusations that we all have some kind of bias towards English speaking people is equally funny...What most of us don't like is people that come from here holes and bring aspects of their failing ing culture with them...It's just hard to understand, and...if you come here you should try to buy into what it's all about...and not try and bring the place you are running away from with you.

I resent the out of you calling me and my country ignorant you dumb 3rd world . Go stick your ing Argentinian flag up your ass. You hypocritical .

Learn to change your ing leader without a military coup every 10 years and maybe you won't hold so much resentment towards my country.

[Jelly]

Cubans, Venezuelans, Puerto Ricans and it's pretty popular with Mexicans as well(although not as popular as Soccer, but it's second)...etc. I am sure there are more. They have professional baseball leagues in Mexico and Puerto Rico and it's the national sport of Cuba....Castro almost became a major league baseball player...he actually pitched in a minor league game for a US team before he became a benevolent dictator...so it is a sport of interest to all the Cuban Americans as well.

And I can't help it you are ignorant of the Dominican Republic...but guess what? It's a Latin American country filled with hispanics...and America has a lot of Cubans and Puerto Ricans...those countries are baseball countries, not to mention that Peurto Rico is a US territory...and even if Soccer is more popular in Mexico...Baseball is pretty popular there.

I'll bet you that baseball is the most popular sport in the Dominican Republic and Puerto Rico...that's all those mofos do is play baseball.

You think it's impressive that 5 Argentinians play in the NBA?

This is a list of Dominicans that play or have played major league baseball:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/bio/D-R-_born.shtml

Cubans:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/bio/Cuba_born.shtml

Puerto Ricans:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/bio/P-R-_born.shtml

Mexicans:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/bio/Mexico_born.shtml

Venezuelans:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/bi...ela_born.shtml

You know how many Argentinians and Brazilians have played MLB?

None.


I think you are guilty of being ignorant of other parts of Latin America...as evidenced by the fact that you don't know who ing Pedro Martinez is...I gurantee you he is like a demi god in the Dominican Republic and he is considered to be one of the greatest pitchers ever...Roberto Clemente in Puerto Rico is immprtal and so Fernando Valenzuela in Mexico...not to mention Dennis Martinez in Nicaragua.

It's more popular in Latin America than you realize, maybe not in South America...but in this hemisphere of the world it is the most popular sport in many countries...when you combine that with the huge hispanic population in America and if you ever watched a MLB game, and saw how many players from those countries play in MLB...you'd know that.

Go look at the front page of ESPN right now and you will see a Cuban baseball player on the front of it.



Sammy Sosa was the Maradonna of the Dominican Republic...and he fell from gracee similarly.

This past world series...

4 of the best players were from the Dominican..

Manny Ramirez, Pedro, David Ortiz and Albert Pujols.




Don't tell me it's not popular in those countries and Puerto Rico because we have 6 million of those mother ers playing on MLB teams.

Castro is a benevolent dictator??

[nkdlunch]

Cubans, Venezuelans, Puerto Ricans and it's pretty popular with Mexicans as well(although not as popular as Soccer, but it's second)...etc.

Cuba,venezuela,Puerto Rico,Dominican and Mexico. that about sums it up for baseball countries in latin america. Even w/that, baseball doesn't even come close to futbol.

And I can't help it you are ignorant of the Dominican Republic...but guess what? It's a Latin American country filled with hispanics...and America has a lot of Cubans and Puerto Ricans...those countries are baseball countries, not to mention that Peurto Rico is a US territory...and even if Soccer is more popular in Mexico...Baseball is pretty popular there.

again, it doesn't even come close. 90% of latin america can't even tell you 1 name of a baseball player, they don't even know who Babe Ruth is. They know the candy though

I like every sport, but you don't understand about futbol. It's not considered a sport in latin america, it's life.

That's why we laugh at that list. at least 8 of those 10 names should be futbol players.

[FoxMulder]

Wow man tha thread is gettin' ethnic!!!

Ok. Latino is anyone born in where language has Latin Roots in their language. That includes many European such as Italian, French, Spanish, Portuguese even Romanians. This because their language was rooted by Latin (the Roman Ancient Language)

The Anglo Saxon are those who has Anglo or Saxon blood... those includes Celtic and Normand descents as English, German, Dutch, Danish, Swedish, Finese... and so and so...

But there are a fuzzy view about latino in NorthAmerica...

They think anyone born in South America is a latino. Manu is 100% latino Italian descent and also Al Pacino and Robert De Niro...

Here we´ve got a lot of Anglo-Saxon descents too and they speak spanish as their primary language. Are they also latinos? Not by blood indeed.

And a lot of southamericans are mixture like me, my grandmother was native and my grandfather was spanish descent 100% and other grand-grand-father was german

So I´m an Latino Anglo Saxon...!?



Anyways its a stupidity argue with anyone about races....

Talking about who is better Black, Yellow, Latino and AngloSaxon or Caucasian is always a little bit freaking racist...

I don´t care if Manu was Chinese, Jew, Arabian, Caucasian or from Mars
He´s a great player no matter where he came from or what blood he got...

Some people bother me because it seems like don´t like him or feel bothered by the fact his not 100% white (There´s a lot of people white and not always caucasian as French, Italian, Spanish, Polish and even some people from Arab countries)

Manu will become a great headache to the racist people

[whottt]

That's why we laugh at that list. at least 8 of those 10 names should be futbol players.

This is what they said the criteria was:

Deportes.com, with emphasis on the candidate's recent impact, influence and achievements.

I think influence has a lot to do with how they are viewed in their own countries as much as Latin America as a whole. Plus winning and how great they are viewed against their peers...

Pujols and Martinez are among the best baseball players ever...not just from Latin America...ever. They also played in the World Series last year.

Manu is like a god in his home country right now, plus he's won on two major world stages recently...and he's popular in America.


Look, I am not going to defend ESPN...because they do write stupid articles...but I take tremendous umbrage at the comments that this list is bad because it is aimed at Americans and because of racist American ignorance.


If it was aimed at Americans it wouldn't have a single soccer player on it...

And ESPN deportes programming is marketed towards Latin America...not most of the USA. It's in Spanish...the journalists and broadcasters many are from Latin American Countries...not America. Most people born in the USA can speak English too...so even the people in America they are targeting are probably mostly from other countries.

If it's a ty list fine...but I don't like the comments that it's because America is racist and ignorant. I think those comments are ignorant.

[FoxMulder]

If it was aimed at Americans it wouldn't have a single soccer player on it...

And ESPN deportes programming is marketed towards Latin America...not most of the USA. It's in Spanish...the journalists and broadcasters many are from Latin American Countries...not America.

If it's a ty list fine...but I don't like the comments that it's because America is racist and ignorant. I think those comments are ignorant.

Note than Latin America is a part of America too...
And we - SouthAmericans - are Americans too...

North America is not AMERICA is just a part of it...

Here in LATIN America nobody ask who is the best black soccer player or the best white volleyball player in the world...
At least not at mass media level...

Sometimes I don´t know who I´m watching in a soccer player
I don´t know if they are Peruans, Argentinians, Chileans, Brazilians... because...

Nobody cares!!!

If NORTH American journalist make differences is because they have this toughts in their minds...

Most Americans aren´t ignorants and racist but many are...

They still think than Rio is an Argentinian City or Buenos Aires is an state from Brazil. I´ve seen most movies where brazilians speaks in... SPANISH!?

And C-Mon... even de NBA is racist in his own way... Manu is a threath for black players because he does many things that many people tought only black people could do it.

It wasn´t Isiah Thomas who said than Larry Bird was overrated...
Or wasn´t Sheed who said "the kid is nothing in special" about Manu...

Is my humble opinion...

[hendrix]

Hendrix...you're a ing idiot. Patriotic?

Thanks dude. Coming from you is already a big compliment.

Excuse me asshole but I didn't see any of our players wrapping themselves in the ing American flag after we won the le...Get off your ing high horse IGNORANT.

I dont know WTF you're talking about, but since you are at it... the discussion is not about patriotism, but if you think everything your goverment does is correct, then you're the ing idiot.

You know why we call people hispanic here? Because ing Cubans and Puerto Ricans don't like being called Mexican...it's a PC device designed to appease overly sensitive minority groups. You see a spanish speaking person...you call them hispanic, it's easier that way and you don't step on toes.

No asshole. Read again. Twice please.
I dont care what everyone calls one another, I'm questioning the use of "hispanic" as race, and the more stupid (and stereotypical) exclusion of some "white" latin-americans from the "hispanic" culture.
like "Ginobili is not hispanic" or "[INSERT NAME HERE] is not hispanic" because they dont LOOK like the STEREOTYPICAL "hispanic" or "latino" is dumb (just to not offend anyone). You... you're a fascist mofo.

Is the ing the CIA the reason we have Miss Hispanic USA and Miss Black USA as well? The Latino Grammy Awards? Black History Month?

Again, those awards can easily be seen as a way to homage a culture, in this case, the "hispanic world".
And "black history month"?? Wow, dude... don't you know there was a lot of opression before you've even been born?? I'm pretty sure you've heard of the KKK.
(By the way, I dont know what the "black history month" is all about, but i took a guess)

I resent the out of you calling me and my country ignorant you dumb 3rd world . Go stick your ing Argentinian flag up your ass. You hypocritical .
Learn to change your ing leader without a military coup every 10 years and maybe you won't hold so much resentment towards my country.

Is that all you got?? You sure know about history.

[whottt]

Note than Latin America is a part of America too...
And we - SouthAmericans - are Americans too...

North America is not AMERICA is just a part of it...

Whatever...the rest of the world refers to USA as America also...we didn't force them into doing it. Call us whatever you want.

Here in LATIN America nobody ask who is the best black soccer player or the best white volleyball player in the world...



At least not at mass media level...

Um...Latinos and Blacks make that distinction as much as anyone here...

Did you read what I posted earlier?

We have Miss Black America, Miss Hispanic America...Latino Grammy awards...

Who do you think is organizing those events and participating in them? The Anglos?

Sometimes I don´t know who I´m watching in a soccer player
I don´t know if they are Peruans, Argentinians, Chileans, Brazilians... because...

Well it's kind hard not to notice what country Manu is from when he wraps himself in the Argentinian Flag to celebrate an NBA le...

So maybe you should talk to him about his "racism" and ignorance.

Sometimes I am watching a baseball game and I don't know who is American, Dominican etc...nor do I care, but they do....that's why I ing know.

Nobody cares!!!

Mother it takes balls to be that big of a hypocrite.

Every mother ing Argentinian on this board is here and watching the Spurs because Manu is ing Argentinian...

How can you just tell a bold faced lie like that?

Are you guys or are you not drawing distinctions between the anglo and hispanic worlds as we speak?

If NORTH American journalist make differences is because they have this toughts in their minds...

Yeah and South American journalists are professional...

They only ask Manu if Tony is the antichrist...whoooo talk about sophistication.

Most Americans aren´t ignorants and racist but many are...

And most Latin Americans aren't corrupt kidnapping thieves who are so culturally corrupt that they can't elect a functioning government to save their lives....but many are.

They still think than Rio is an Argentinian City or Buenos Aires is an state from Brazil.

And some South Americans don't even know who ing Pedro Martinez and Albert Pujols are.

And C-Mon... even de NBA is racist in his own way... Manu is a threath for black players because he does many things that many people tought only black people could do it.

Do you even have blacks in Argentina?

It wasn´t Isiah Thomas who said than Larry Bird was overrated...
Or wasn´t Sheed who said "the kid is nothing in special" about Manu...

Is my humble opinion...

It's an ignorant opinion that is incredibly shortsighted and hypocritical.

[smeagol]

Uh...no it's not...it's called ESPN Deportes and it employs hispanics to market for hispanics and Latin America...that's why it's ing printed and broadcast in Spanish.

I still don't agree with the list, but that is just me.

I feel responsible for releasing whottt's rage.

[manubili]

I still don't agree with the list, but that is just me.

I feel responsible for releasing whottt's rage.

Latin ESPN always tries to include hispanic people from everywhere, from argentina to the hispanic comunity in the US. And that's a nice dream, far away from reality. We are not a whole group, nor a race, and if you include brazilians and english-speakers US hispanics, we don't even share the same language.

That's why that list is nonsense.

[whottt]

No asshole. Read again. Twice please.
I dont care what everyone calls one another, I'm questioning the use of "hispanic" as race, and the more stupid (and stereotypical) exclusion of some "white" latin-americans from the "hispanic" culture.

Hispanic isn't considered a race here...it's considered an ethnicity/cultural lable. It is one.

like "Ginobili is not hispanic" or "[INSERT NAME HERE] is not hispanic" because they dont LOOK like the STEREOTYPICAL "hispanic" or "latino" is dumb (just to not offend anyone). You... you're a fascist mofo..

Why? Because one person said they didn't think Manu was Hispanic, a person who admitted they really didn't know what it meant? I think the person tripped over the fact that Manu is of Italian Ancestry...it's not exactly a crime and that person didn't claim to be certain.

Exactly how is that proof of anything?

I mean does Manu or does Manu not sit at the top of the ing "hispanic" list? Weren't ya'll claiming America made the list and American ignorance of hispanic culture is why it sucks?

Do you not see the contradiction?

Again, those awards can easily be seen as a way to homage a culture, in this case, the "hispanic world".
And "black history month"??

Yeah? And they are also ethnic and racial tags that those groups apply to themselves...not because the CIA is scheming.

Wow, dude... don't you know there was a lot of opression before you've even been born?? I'm pretty sure you've heard of the KKK.

Yeah...the blacks got it bad here...that's why they are all trying to get to Argentina.

Oooh you know about the KKK...how horrible we Americans are...why can't we take a page from the peaceful Hispanic book...

...you mother ers in South America are no better than we are, and I don't care what your race or ethnicity is. And if there's one country that really can't talk it's Argentina...you SOB's are 70% + European interlopers just like Americans, you were a European colony just like America. So don't even go there.

[FoxMulder]

Whott or whatever you called... I don´t know why you are so angry... but if makes you feel ok
go against anything called argentinian or latino or whatever you want to called us
go ahead...

If that makes you feel a patriot...

[CaptainLate]

I don't want to bring the house down on me, but I don't think Manu is really hispanic.

Some Latin American countries were colonies of European countries. Spain and Portugal = European heritage = white.