Thank you DPG. Matter of fact I was burying this Lakers core from after the Mavs sweep saying we were NOT legit contenders BEFORE we signed Dwight. I also said I expected last year's team to lose in the 2nd round with a WCF ceiling ...
Unrealistic Lakers fan, I am not ...of course I did not predict us being as bad as we were either year ...who knew?
But Still not sure how I am backpedaling.
I also am on record saying paying Dwight the max was wrong and we should of dealth him at the ASB last year ...
And I am against paying Melo (and Kobe) max money in the new CBA with only Durant and Lebron worth it right now and MAYBE Paul George ...
Cowboys_wear_spurs made a golden point, tanking is a different term than rebuilding. Tanking teams just lose games on intention to gain better odds in the draft lottery, which's a completely passive ideology. While rebuilding teams often have plans and act positively promoting that process, measures include piling up on prospects and trading assets, trimming bad stocks etc...
To me tanking is instructing players to play less than 100%. Rebuilding is giving minutes to guys knowing they will lose but it's better for the development long term.
How many teams have ever "tanked" by the strict definition? The east is ty. Bulls could easily get a top 3 seed if they made a trade to acquire talent rather than trade Deng for future considerations. So if you have a plan that exempts you from saying you tanked? Bulls tanked this year after Rose got hurt and they struggled. No way Tibbs agrees to lose on purpose in fact he was upset about the deal but the GM decided to tank this year for future picks.
how about the Bobcats? They've been tanking for 10 years or something, which reminds me of John&Jeff's 09' slogan - 10 years long, 10 years strong
Pussies and assholes.
I will accept that badge because it is in the best interest of my team. Again I would sell out Kobe if I had to. I prefer we didn't ... but Lakers are bigger than any one player.
Stop playing the Clinton card. If you aren't doing everything you can to win, you're tanking. Some teams do it for one or two games now and then, including the Spurs by resting starters and their goals are eventually all the same, to win a championship at one point. Tanking teams have goals that are further down the road than the current season goes. That's tanking when you intentionally throw games so you get a better draft spot. I don't disagree with doing it, but Dale sure does. Let's not call it anything other than what it is, though.
Let us proceed
Ok so then we agree? Again you are losing me here, DMC. I said that calling it a "rebuild" is just "spin". Because you cant tell your fanbase we are "tanking" I don't believe that any Coach instructs players to "tank". But they can sit players until they are 115% healthy, trade vets for future picks and not sign players of quality to protect future cap space. All may be considered planned rebuild/tank to chase free agents or a top draft spot ...
Because tanking and rebuilding are not the same thing. Rebuilding teams don't sign a 2 year from retirement player who's been injured for a year to a max contract. You're equivocating terms so that it seems you're favoring rebuilding when in reality you're favoring tanking with the highest paid player in the league.
Rebuilding teams want cap space. The Lakers took half of that in one fell swoop and threw it at Kobe for marketing reasons, not rebuilding reasons.
whatever It doesn't matter to me, the semantics. You are focusing on minor details. Tank/Rebuild Either ship Im aboard. I never said Lakers were not tanking.
Also We don't have the highest paid player in the league, he is hurt. Just like Rose is for the Bulls. it makes sense that they tank rebuild whatever you want to call it.
My only equivocation is with those that argue their is a difference, at least by definition. Sure there is but again someone tell me a team that has "truly tanked"? Where is the proof of ANY team even the pre Duncan Spurs tanking? It can all be made to appear (spin) as a rebuild. Lakers are not tanking according to their GM they just suck, but I think they SHOULD tank. Again I don't give a what Kobe makes. SO the lakers should not do what is best for their team since they overpaid Kobe? Follow up one mistake with another?
As DPG would say ..."that doesn't make any sense" ... I am for whatever is best for the long-term success. Kobe if it comes down to it. If he cant accept that reality he and Pau can leave. They served their purpose helping us win 5 and 2 rings. Yes Kobe is one of my favorite players and Pau has been a true professional ...but they can kick rocks if it helps us rebuild faster.
Last edited by Killakobe81; 01-20-2014 at 09:10 PM.
Oh and the two year extension times with a much better FA class. Does that mean Jimbo/Mitch have a "plan"?
Again You are focusing on Kobe's contract and you are right does not signal "rebuild" but since you say it cripples us does not mean it helps us tank?
So again what does that matter with what we are facing right now? Before the last few games we lost 10 out of 12 what does Kobe's contract have to do with that?
With 3 PG's and Kobe hurt a tank/rebuild makes sense.
If it didn't matter to you you'd not feel the need to use a different term. You're the one equivocating here.
You're misusing the term "equivocation".My only equivocation is with those that argue their is a difference, sure there is but Again someone tell me a team that has "truly tanked"? Where is the proof of ANY team even the pre Duncan Spurs tanking? It can all be made to appear (spin) as a rebuild. Lakers are not tanking according to their GM they just suck, but I think they should tank. Again I don't give a what Kobe makes. SO the lakers should not do what is best for their team since they overpaid Kobe? Follow up one mistake with another?
I haven't seen anyone but Lakers fans calling for tanking and saying it's happening. I haven't said it's happening.
You don't give a what Kobe makes but it hurts your team's chances at rebuilding in the next two years.
Since the Lakers overpaid Kobe, it shows they don't want to do what's best for a compe ive team, but doing what's best for the franchise isn't necessarily aligned with becoming more compe ive.
What's best for their long term success is to take profits where they can. It's a delicate balancing act, to retain a fan base while remaining profitable in this new CBA, especially in your waning glory years when you have to pay loyalty prices for stars to hang around, and not give the impression you don't give a about winning. Buss isn't balancing that very well. He's half in and half out.As DPG would say ..."that doesn't make any sense" ... I am for whatever is best for the long-term success. Kobe if it comes down to it. If he cant accept that reality he and Pau can leave.
Again DMC you are missing the point. I do NOT feel the need for a different term have you read my posts lately? I posted I was onboard team tank both here and on LG and have gotten from the "pride" brigade saying we do not tank. Maybe we don't ... I argue we should. My point was if we are splitting hairs (see posts by Rogue, DPG etc.) then you could argue that NO ONE ever tanks. I understand the word equivocation. I was using it because you kept throwing it out there. Again, you are throwing that on me when I said I don't give a . If it is a tank call me sgt, GI joe whateverthe you want Im on board. Lakers want to spin it as rebuild ..fine. Just don't make a "near" playoff run ... and trade Pau ASAP ...
Last edited by Killakobe81; 01-20-2014 at 09:27 PM.
"Agreed. Tank/rebuild is same I know tank implies deliberately losing but its just nice spin."
It's not the same . You bring another term to the party then disown it as if it's my guest when I point it out to you.
The Celtics are rebuilding. The Lakers might or might not be tanking. They are not rebuilding. They have Pau, Kobe and Nash.
I don't care if they do it either way, but you're not going to sneak out the side door on it and call it a rebuilding effort. It's clearly not.
After clarifying a Bunch of times. Let me make it even simpler.
When I posted that (tank/rebuild is the same) My point was "Rebuild" was a nice "spin" the Lakers were putting on it. I just worded it poorly. My point was that tank implies losing on purpose while you can say "we are rebuilding" and spin it. I am not disowning either because again I don't give a which one applies as long as the end result is top 5 pick. Yes the Lakers have Pau but have attempted to trade him multiple times "to rebuild". Lakers traded Bynum for howard to rebuild with a new star. Lakers scrapped the triangle and went with Brown D'antoni to rebuild their core system? Lakers by your definition have not tanked they tried to rebuild that planned failed and now they are in limbo. This s the only year it makes sense to tank since they do not own their draft pick. I Wasn't trying to sneak out Im here all the time. You are being dense because despite my poor phrasing initially it is pretty obvious what I want here. If you get some satisfaction of holding to me to whatever term you feel I threw out that is fine. But dat is pretty dumb to say you cant rebuild while still having some aging players ..spurs had Tim and Manu and shifted to a Tony focused offense they rebuilt on the fly ... Lakers tried to do the same and failed.
Last edited by Killakobe81; 01-20-2014 at 09:43 PM.
So let me get this straight: You didn't say what you meant but it's my fault for holding you to what you said. Does that sound right?
DPG, and myself tried to clarify where I stood yet you wanted to stay stuck on terms. That is fine it was my fault I posted on my phone real quick while in line at Walmart. I just don't see why you had to take all kinds of monkey leaps around the subject. I never said the Lakers don't tank. I never said "oh we are rebuilding". What I said in the NBA IMHO it mostly is just "spin" every tank is termed as a rebuild to assuage the fan base. You are right with our payroll we should NOT be tanking but injury and reality of our place in the standings says we SHOULD tank. IF it makes the old guard happy to call it a ing rebuild, fine. I accepted as you pointed out earlier the pussies and assholes card ...so I thought that meant you understood what I meant even if it was worded poorly earlier. If you are just being an asshole that is your right as well.
Maybe you and others disagree with what I said but I still stand by the fact that no one ever tanks by that strictest definition ...telling their team to lose. But Lakers should jettison Pau and sit Kobe until next season and tank/rebuild (whatever term the Mighty DMC feels comfortable allowing me to walk out of here with ...
got chucker makes all three freebies when the Lakers needed a miss
for s sake
Swaggy P out there messing up. Good thing DJ Augustine remembered our PGs can't guard a chair.
Gosh darnnit!!!
Swaggy P AGAIN!!
MVpau with another miss but may 18 points and 19 boards against Noah/Gibson/Boozer ...
Im sorry but no way Pau is not worth at least a 1st rounder. Glad Lakers held firm if a big goes down on a legit playoff team Pau should fetch at LEAST that
you Nick Young
Rofl
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