Chuck: "Kiwi is a top 15 player in this league..."

[Prime Time]

Anthony is a much more capable #1 or 2 than Leonard, at this point of their careers..

The problem with Carmelo is that he's still convinced he's a #1 guy, when in reality, he's better suited as a sidekick..if you put Kawhi on this year's Knicks, they would be significantly worse IMO..

I'd rather have Kawhi as the #3 option on my team over Carmelo as my #1, but as an individual player, Anthony is better..I wouldn't want Carmelo on my team because he overvalues himself, but that could very well change if he had Pop at coach..

I don't know if I particulary agree with this. Let me just say that I don't think Leonard is a top 15 player in the game, I just think Carmelo is a horrible NBA player. A sensational talent, sure. But he'll never be championship material.


With that said, I'm not sold if a Felton-Smith-Leonard-Stat-Chandler lineup with Hardaway, Shump, and Martin off the bench would have a worse record than the Hawks. The thing about Carmelo is that he struggles to play within a system. It's nothing but jump-shots, which really takes way the flow of the action.

I'm sold that if Leonard played in the Eastern conference while being the #1 option for the Knicks (Over Melo) he could average anywhere from 15-19ppg, 7-10rpg, while playing All-Team defense/shooting at nearly 50%.

Imagine how much better defensively the Knicks would be if they had Leonard over Melo. Not only would Tyson Chandler roaming the paint, but add in Leonard on the perimeter? That'd be really good for Eastern Conference standards.

I'm fully aware that Carmelo would be averaging about 10-13 more points than Kawhi, but at the same time - how good are those shots? Carmelo's points usually come off low-percentage jumpers. While this demonstrates how talented he is, it doesn't do anything to help his teammates get into their groove offensively.

Now look at how Kawhi scores. He moves without the ball, he cuts to the basket, he posts up, he creates steals, he can hit the mid-range jumper if the defense forces him too, and best of all - he'd give the ball to an open teammate over shooting it himself 10/10. That's the kind of player the Knicks need if they ever want to relevant again.

I know I sound insane, but again - Carmelo is much more skilled than Leonard. But I think Leonard's offensive efficiency/dominance on defense would easily lead the Knicks to the playoffs. Just think of all the fast-break points he would create.

[HarlemHeat37]

The problem with that assumption is that Leonard's potential role as a #1 would certainly require much more energy than he currently exerts on offense with the Spurs..

Would he be able to demonstrate the same defensive ability if he had the role of #1 option on a team with virtually no other creators?..

It's extremely rare for a perimeter player to be able to dominate both ends of the floor as a #1 option, tbh..even Lebron and Jordan often coasted on defense during the regular season, and they're probably the best 2-way perimeter players that I've ever seen..

Leonard's offensive style as a go-to guy really isn't that different from Carmelo's, either, tbh..a lot of mid-range Js, a lot of post-ups, etc..I don't think Kawhi's playmaking ability is noticeably better than Fat Melo's at the moment..

I use advanced metrics as much as anybody here, but one of the problems with them is that they don't properly assess a player's role/energy exerted..the Knicks don't have a system, they only run 1 on 1 plays, especially with Tyson Chandler and Amare's declines(their only effective pick&roll bigs)..

On a team that doesn't have a system and only has 1 other playmaker(Prigioni, a 40-year old man), Anthony is often forced to put up 20+ shots per game..

[Raven]

If you wouldnt take a player instead of another than its probably coz his stats are padded and his overall impact questionable at best. Love and fatmelo are prime example of this...

[apalisoc_9]

I never said Kawhi is better than Melo and PG

[Budkin]

Love Kiwi but no way is he a top 15 player.

[Russ]

Top 15? Be careful the Lakers are listening.

[Leetonidas]

Leonard wipes his ass with Parsons tbh

[Sybok]

He's in the top 10 defensively, maybe top 5. Offensively he's somewhere in the top 50-75 maybe. It depends on how aggressive he is. He's moving uphill so it's like the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle with him.

[wildchild]

Why the two-way wing players are more and more valuable? Just because they're rare gems.
When Anthony has a bad scoring night he can become useless to his team. In contrast, Leonard can have a bad shooting game but he still makes good offensive decisions -with the good pass feeding his teammates- and delivers on defense. He can change shots, alter passes, steal those passes, force turnovers, get rebounds, he can still in a bad offensive night effectively disrupt opponent rhythm.
That type of players could inspire his teammates to win -more than a Melo's 34 pts 3 asts-.

[loveforthegame]

I don't think he's there now but it's not silly to think he could be eventually.

I haven't seen Barkley talk about a player like this since Dirk. Not saying he's going to be right again but he certainly believes so.

[ulosturedge]

Why the two-way wing players are more and more valuable? Just because they're rare gems.
When Anthony has a bad scoring night he can become useless to his team. In contrast, Leonard can have a bad shooting game but he still makes good offensive decisions -with the good pass feeding his teammates- and delivers on defense. He can change shots, alter passes, steal those passes, force turnovers, get rebounds, he can still in a bad offensive night effectively disrupt opponent rhythm.
That type of players could inspire his teammates to win -more than a Melo's 34 pts 3 asts-.

It's funny how when someone is being rated somehow Offense counts way more heavily then defense when coming up with that said rating. Kawhi's defensive presence alone should push him past those middle of the road type players. Top 15 maybe not yet, but better then the likes of Parsons and others. I think if we are looking at overall impact on a team with everything that player brings to the table I think Kawhi is ahead of those guys.

[MultiTroll]

I'd take him over Fatmelo. A few months ago I'd agree about George but I'm starting to have doubts. Leonard may be the third best SF in the league.

Yep.
If Kawhi was allowed to play zero d and chuck at will as the #1 option on a loser team, he may well have 28 points per game too.

[HarlemHeat37]

Kawhi has trouble defending guards, tbh, his defense is becoming overrated..very good team defender and great at defending big SFs and small ball 4s, but can't defend 1s and 2s the same way players like Lebron/Pippen can, etc..

Danny Green is much better at defending guards, and hopefully Pop remembers that in the playoffs..

[Mugen]

^there's such a dearth of quality perimeter defenders right now in the league that it's tough to call Leonard overrated. Maybe compared to Bowen, Pippen, Rodman then he's definitely overrated as I don't think he's close to their impact.

Pretty crazy that the Spurs went from a defensive rotation of Keith Bogans and RJ to two of the best wing defenders in the league in Danny/Leonard tbh.

[rjv]

kawhi has hit the level he was at in the finals and just in time

[HarlemHeat37]

Kawhi is a very good defender, one of the best perimeter guys in the league, but the media is underrating the rest of the Spurs' defenders to inflate him, tbh..

Particularly Splitter, one of the 5-7 best defensive bigs in the league, and Green, one of the 5-7 best perimeter defenders in the league..

Duncan and Splitter were by far the best defenders on the floor last night, yet only Steve Kerr pointed that out..

[Mugen]

Kawhi is a very good defender, one of the best perimeter guys in the league, but the media is underrating the rest of the Spurs' defenders to inflate him, tbh..

Particularly Splitter, one of the 5-7 best defensive bigs in the league, and Green, one of the 5-7 best perimeter defenders in the league..

Duncan and Splitter were by far the best defenders on the floor last night, yet only Steve Kerr pointed that out..

Splitter's D on Dirk was some of the best I've seen anybody play Nowitzki all year tbh. Dirk hit some pretty insane shots even for his standard.

Duncan being one of the best rim protectors at 37 and right after mangling his knee is ridiculous, but people still overvalue guys like Ibaka who hit it 5 rows into the stands on almost every block

[SayTown]

Possible maybe closer to top 20, KawhIsland has been the best player on a 61 win team this season.

Parsons isn't even close to Kawhi, Kawhi is closer to being as good as Harden than Parsons is close to being as good as Kawhi

[Chinook]

Kawhi has trouble defending guards, tbh, his defense is becoming overrated..very good team defender and great at defending big SFs and small ball 4s, but can't defend 1s and 2s the same way players like Lebron/Pippen can, etc..

Danny Green is much better at defending guards, and hopefully Pop remembers that in the playoffs..

Ordinarily, I'd agree with you. But Green's lateral quickness is really lacking right now. If Danny is still ailing come series against GS, Portland and the Clippers, the Spurs' edge over those teams shrinks noticeably.

Yes, Kawhi's defense is overrated. He doesn't have healthy Green's lateral quickness or anticipation around the rim. But his guard defense is probably a little better than hobbled Green's.

[Raven]

saying Green's guard D is better than Kawhi's is not saying much, since i can't think of anyone that defends pg better than Green...

[SupremeGuy]

Kawhi is 22 now, and will turn 23 at the end of June.

To be fair, I was pretty drunk when I posted that. lol

[look_at_g_shred]

16 points 16 rebounds.

[letmk]

Kawhi is a very good defender, one of the best perimeter guys in the league, but the media is underrating the rest of the Spurs' defenders to inflate him, tbh..

Particularly Splitter, one of the 5-7 best defensive bigs in the league, and Green, one of the 5-7 best perimeter defenders in the league..

Duncan and Splitter were by far the best defenders on the floor last night, yet only Steve Kerr pointed that out..

Speaking of this, anybody has access to ESPN Insider? Pelton has a new article about best defenders in NBA, and I'd like to see his take and the method of his take.

[wildbill2u]

hERE IS A LINK TO THE 2014 ALL STAR ROSTERS.
http://www.nba.com/allstar/2014/players/

SEVERAL NAMES ON THE ROSTER OF 24 THAT I'D PUT ABOVE KWAHI

[Steve-O-Matic]

Kawhi Leonard's wallet is the one in the bag that says Bad Mother er on it.