Heat: Laimbeer: Lebron would be the best in my era

[IrisHockey]

I'm on the fence tbh I don't want to get my expectations too high after what happened last year.

It still hurts.

Yep. The feeling of losing a le like that is just unimaginable.. I took 5 months to get past losing to Colorado in '96. 2 months to get past losing the WS in 2006. 6 is something that lasts for eternity.

[spurraider21]

Amazing how real basketball discussion has returned now that Harlem is back, even though the circle-jerkers claimed that they were going to talk basketball after he was banned

Most rational posters acknowledge that Harlem's takes are often the goods

[313]

Yep. The feeling of losing a le like that is just unimaginable.. I took 5 months to get past losing to Colorado in '96. 2 months to get past losing the WS in 2006. 6 is something that lasts for eternity.

was talking about the Wings choking away a 3-1 lead to Chicago

Between the Lions going 4-12, the Spurs getting 6'd, the Red Wings choking, all topped off by Satan's team(the Boston Red Sox) beating my Tigers in October, I've had a terrible year as a sports fan

Hopefully you're right about us, though.

[Clipper Nation]

Yep. The feeling of losing a le like that is just unimaginable.. I took 5 months to get past losing to Colorado in '96. 2 months to get past losing the WS in 2006. 6 is something that lasts for eternity.

How long did it take you to get over this?

[IrisHockey]

How long did it take you to get over this?

Barely a week ... Yzerman and Shanahan were both out, not that I want to make injury excuses, but Sergei Fedorov is a terrible leader ... Tony Parker at ude, even though he has CP3 skillset.

Plus, we got Brett Hull and Dom and Luc in the offseason... if we had gone far and lost to the Avs it may not have happened

was talking about the Wings choking away a 3-1 lead to Chicago

not a single soul thought we were gonna get that far anyway...

[Clipper Nation]

Come on, son, Frenzy at Figueroa was a 6-esque choke....

[spurraider21]

Those were the days when I still watched hockey regularly, pre-lockout. Was so pissed when the wings got robitaille

[Venti Quattro]

2012-2013 LeBron would absolutely destroy the 80's. If you give him the physicality that was allowed in the 80's, he would take it and shove it up his opponent's asses.

Sure, the Bad boys would rough him up, but they wouldn't win against a 6'8" guy who can play any position except center. If you put LeBron as starting 3 in the Showtime Lakers and slide Worthy to shooting guard, they would win out the entire decade.

Kevin McHale wouldn't dare to clothesline det LeBron in the air

[IrisHockey]

Come on, son, Frenzy at Figueroa was a 6-esque choke....

I know. Chris Osgood provided the Manu Ginobili goods, tbh..

Replacing him with Dom would be like the Spurs getting rid of Ginobili last offseason and getting Dirk Nowitzki..

[spurraider21]

I know. Chris Osgood provided the Manu Ginobili goods, tbh..

Replacing him with Dom would be like the Spurs getting rid of Ginobili last offseason and getting Dirk Nowitzki..

Osgood was usually terrible in big games. When hasek came back that was when got real

[IrisHockey]

Yea, but what's really interesting is how Osgood saved Dom's tired old bag ass in '08... jesus christ it was a like a hollywood script.

[lefty]

@ the thought of LeBron playing in the zone-less 80s. The only proven formula to contain Lebron would be gone. Hard fouls wouldn't stop LeBron, he's still bigger than most people from that era too.

You forgot 2 things :

- handchecking was allowed
- there was no defensive 3 second rule

Meaning that before getting hard-foulded, Lebron would have to get to the rim 1st

Plus , back then superstars didnt get more calls than any othwer players - not before MJ and KFC complained to NBA about the Pistons being too physical


But to be fair to Lebron, he doesnt get the calls KD, MJ or Kirby have gotten

[Venti Quattro]

But to be fair to Lebron, he doesnt get the calls KD, MJ or Kirby have gotten

LOL yeah right

[spurraider21]

My favorite saga in recent years was Hossa jumping from Pitt to Detroit and losing in the Stanley cup to the other side both times . At least he finally got it with the bla s

[ambchang]

Even if you want to take the best Pistons' defense, which would rank 6th today, as you said(not even top 5), Lebron has routinely dominated superior defenses..not only did Lebron dominate, like Jordan, but he did it while exerting significantly more energy(which has been echoed by people such as Bill Simmons and Zach Lowe, who aren't Lebron homers like myself) on defense and rebounding..

I can only imagine what Lebron could do if he was put in a situation where he didn't have to exert energy playing defense and rebounding, along with playing inferior defenses to today's teams..

Your rule change argument is irrelevant, as there are both rules that aid today's teams play defense and rules that aided defenses back in the 80s..

Rule changes have significant impact from an individual defense perspective. Defenses like today forces teams to operate as a team and constant ball movement while earlier defenses favour one on one players. Lebron is a gear player but he is not a the GOAT one on one player.

As for defensive energy, you do know Jordan won DPoY and was one of the fiercest defensive player of all time, right? Jordan's defensive win shares were on average higher than Lebron. Jordan's carter high rebounds is the same as Lebron despite being smaller shorter and a guard. Lastly, Jordan had a way higher usage rate. I mean, saying Jordan didn't have to exert energy on defense and rebounding is borderline re ed.

Not to mention ridiculously weak teams in today's era (read: the entire eastern conference) drastically dragging down the defensive ratings numbers and we are it only talking about different rules, but a totally different sample set of teams and talent. Yet you try to come in and make it some like everything is equal and defensive rating is the be all and end all.

[lefty]

LOL yeah right

Right

Like that game vs Brooklyn when Lebron when to the basket on that final play and was 200% fouled, but no call

I can guarantee you that MJ, Kirby or MJ would have gotten 10 FT's

[Clipper Nation]

LeBron would never get a call for doing this:



KD still gets rewarded for his rip-through move constantly even though it's an offensive foul now, and Stern literally changed the rules to make it easier for Jordan to win

Kirby, KD, MJ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LeBron in ref favoritismPERIOD

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

I think it's safe to say LeBron would be a top 3 player.. I just don't have him ahead of Bird or Magic...

[spurraider21]

Right

Like that game vs Brooklyn when Lebron when to the basket on that final play and was 200% fouled, but no call

I can guarantee you that MJ, Kirby or MJ would have gotten 10 FT's

Eh as I demonstrated in an earlier thread Lebron has consistently been among the leaders in FTA, but the number has dipped last 2 seasons (not coincidentally his lowest FGA numbers also came in those years)

[Clipper Nation]

Not a coincidence that the drop in LeBron's FTA numbers coincides with the league starting to make a big push for Durbeta as MVP and on LeBron's level while awarding him tons of bogus free throws

[ambchang]

Also, why are you totally ignoring my comments about Marion and Danny green as well as the Knicks defense?

Speaking of Marion, why did a Dallas mavericks team with a d rating of 105 totally shut down Lebron in 2011?

[resistanze]

Remember when his Achilles snapped? He limped to the FT line and to the locker room - without the aid of a teammate or a wheelchair. LeBron couldn't do that.

LeBron's Achilles wouldn't have snapped

[spurraider21]

Not a coincidence that the drop in LeBron's FTA numbers coincides with the league starting to make a big push for Durbeta as MVP and on LeBron's level while awarding him tons of bogus free throws

This is the second time you brought up Durant in this Lebron discussion. Calm your s tbh. Less FTA accompanying less FGA is very reasonable

[Malik Hairston]

Rule changes have significant impact from an individual defense perspective. Defenses like today forces teams to operate as a team and constant ball movement while earlier defenses favour one on one players. Lebron is a gear player but he is not a the GOAT one on one player.

As for defensive energy, you do know Jordan won DPoY and was one of the fiercest defensive player of all time, right? Jordan's defensive win shares were on average higher than Lebron. Jordan's carter high rebounds is the same as Lebron despite being smaller shorter and a guard. Lastly, Jordan had a way higher usage rate. I mean, saying Jordan didn't have to exert energy on defense and rebounding is borderline re ed.

Not to mention ridiculously weak teams in today's era (read: the entire eastern conference) drastically dragging down the defensive ratings numbers and we are it only talking about different rules, but a totally different sample set of teams and talent. Yet you try to come in and make it some like everything is equal and defensive rating is the be all and end all.

- Dad Killer played in the expansion era, the weakest era of basketball in modern NBA history..a league where Reggie Miller was the best player on a contender and John Starks was the #2 guy on a contending team, etc..

- It isn't arguable that today's defenses are more sophisticated and complex compared to the 80s..it's just natural progression..today's coaches took previous ideologies and expanded them, along with the technological improvements and more advanced data..it really isn't arguable, and handchecking is the only argument that pro-80s and 90s supporters have..

- Dad Killer in '88 was a historic defender, which created an illusion for the rest of his career..

He had a teammate that was arguably the best defensive perimeter player of all-time to guard the best player on the opposing team, in an era that had only a few notable perimeter players..Lebron routinely guards the opposing team's top player in the playoffs, he doesn't have anybody to fall back on, he had to shut down Rose, Parker, Pierce, etc..

Jordan ranks well in Defensive RAPM, but not in the elite like Pippen and Lebron..they both actually doubled his early 90s DRAPM numbers..

Also, an indictment on Dad Killer is that the Bulls improved defensively when he left..their defense somehow improved in the 1993-94 season without Jordan, speaks volumes on his defensive impact and responsibility, tbh..

- Jordan was one of the greatest rebounding guards of all-time, but he was still the #3 rebounder on his team..Lebron is the primary rebounder on his team..

- There's literally no argument for Jordan exerting as much energy as Lebron, he isn't even close, in that regard..Jordan was the #3 rebounder and secondary defender on his team, while Lebron is the #1 everything on his team..I can only imagine what Lebron could do if he had a Pippen on defense..

[spurraider21]

Damn