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  1. 06-15-2014 #51
    Buddy Mignon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koolaid_Man
    And you wonder why the alltime greats prefer Kobe over Lebron....the coddling of Bron is ridicolous....if melo had any balls he would steer clear of Miami.

    Melo is not going Miami. He is leaving NY, though. He will be a Bull or Laker. No one else has a shot.
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  2. 06-15-2014 #52
    Koolaid_Man
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy Mignon
    Melo is not going Miami. He is leaving NY, though. He will be a Bull or Laker. No one else has a shot.
    What about Love...how do u think all this will play out.
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  3. 06-15-2014 #53
    midnightpulp
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy Mignon
    I've never taken it serious... which is why I throw all-star mvp's out there. But when I do... you guys claim they hold no weight... and they don't, but neither does a regular season MVP. I judge legacies and a players skill level when I evaluate them. You guys use shooting percentage to claim Lebron is better than Kobe. Right? Malone and Barkley shot better from the field than Duncan. Both averaged more points, and Barkley was a better rebounder. When I say Barkley and Malone are better players you guys think its absurd. Why, because you're going off the eye test and the intangibles that don't show up in stats. When I use the same method with Kobe, you guys simple run to shooting percentage.
    Well, Malone did shoot worse in the playoffs than Duncan. Barkley is a better offensive player than Tim, but he was atrocious defensively. So raw stats don't tell the whole story there.

    Shooting percentages aren't all that matters. Most people think Lebron is better than Kobe because of his all around game. He's a better passer, rebounder, and more efficient scorer, with smarter shot selection.

    That said, I don't think the media has put James higher than Kobe. They typically use the rings argument, and Lebron still has some catching up to do.
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  4. 06-15-2014 #54
    Buddy Mignon
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    Quote Originally Posted by midnightpulp
    Well, Malone did shoot worse in the playoffs than Duncan. Barkley is a better offensive player than Tim, but he was atrocious defensively. So raw stats don't tell the whole story there.

    Shooting percentages aren't all that matters. Most people think Lebron is better than Kobe because of his all around game. He's a better passer, rebounder, and more efficient scorer, with smarter shot selection.

    That said, I don't think the media has put James higher than Kobe. They typically use the rings argument, and Lebron still has some catching up to do.

    He's a better passer, that's it. He's a much bigger player and plays closer to the basket than Kobe so he should get more boards. Efficiency when judging players is not reliable and seems to be a category that the nerds have adopted make their case. Barkley was more efficient than Duncan with a much tougher degree of difficulty shot chart. So, Barkley was a better scorer, better rebounder, more efficient, and a better passer. Is he the better player?
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  5. 06-15-2014 #55
    midnightpulp
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy Mignon
    He's a better passer, that's it. He's a much bigger player and plays closer to the basket than Kobe so he should get more boards. Efficiency when judging players is not reliable and seems to be a category that the nerds have adopted make their case. Barkley was more efficient than Duncan with a much tougher degree of difficulty shot chart. So, Barkley was a better scorer, better rebounder, more efficient, and a better passer. Is he the better player?
    No. Because he couldn't anchor the paint like Duncan, due to his height and general laziness on the defensive end. Barkley>Duncan offensively/Duncan>>>Barkley defensively, so Duncan is the overall better player. Barkley is underrated, though, and much better than Karl Malone.

    Efficiency is pretty reliable. When Kobe won les, it usually coincided with his most efficient playoff shooting performances and highest PER (a metric you don't like, I know). In a sport where games are frequently decided by 2, 3, 4 points, the difference between 10-26 and 13-26 is huge.

    I'm curious, what's your argument for Kobe>James?
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  6. 06-15-2014 #56
    Buddy Mignon
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    Quote Originally Posted by midnightpulp
    No. Because he couldn't anchor the paint like Duncan, due to his height and general laziness on the defensive end. Barkley>Duncan offensively/Duncan>>>Barkley defensively, so Duncan is the overall better player. Barkley is underrated, though, and much better than Karl Malone.

    Efficiency is pretty reliable. When Kobe won les, it usually coincided with his most efficient playoff shooting performances and highest PER (a metric you don't like, I know). In a sport where games are frequently decided by 2, 3, 4 points, the difference between 10-26 and 13-26 is huge.

    I'm curious, what's your argument for Kobe>James?

    As a former player and a life long fan I go for the eye test every single time. I would never draft a team based on players efficiency. You'd wind up with Duke everytime. Stats don't tell you the heart of a player... the will of the player... his mental for ude. Based on those attributes alone I'd take Kobe every time over Lebron. Take Lebron out of the East Coast... is he as efficient? Put him on a team with a true PG like Paul or Rajon... is he as efficient? You take Kobe's 6-24 in a game 7 in the finals. Most players with those kind of nerves will give up on their team. They'll cower and look for other teammates to bail them out. Not Kobe... he found other ways to dominate the game. His defense, his boards, and his heart to still take tough shots during the closing minutes. Lebron doesn't have that. Kobe never cheated you or took a short cut on the floor. For me... James is not a tier 1 player. He'll give you stats, but he's a front runner. It's in his nature.
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  7. 06-15-2014 #57
    Buddy Mignon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonnerific
    You know mid. I understand you love the debate about all things analytical when it comes to the NBA. But you do realize you're dealing with two morons that compete with each other and rouges and iris to be the dumbest person in any room they may be in at the time.

    The ONLY way they don't win is if any of those other Darwinian rejects happen to wander in.

    You should slow your role... or at least know it.




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  8. 06-15-2014 #58
    DMC
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  9. 06-15-2014 #59
    midnightpulp
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddy Mignon
    I've never taken it serious... which is why I throw all-star mvp's out there. But when I do... you guys claim they hold no weight... and they don't, but neither does a regular season MVP. I judge legacies and a players skill level when I evaluate them. You guys use shooting percentage to claim Lebron is better than Kobe. Right? Malone and Barkley shot better from the field than Duncan. Both averaged more points, and Barkley was a better rebounder. When I say Barkley and Malone are better players you guys think its absurd. Why, because you're going off the eye test and the intangibles that don't show up in stats. When I use the same method with Kobe, you guys simple run to shooting percentage.
    I agree with half of that, considering I do use the eye test in conjunction with stats. 2005 was a good example. People believed Manu should've won the Finals MVP, based on his offense. But it was Duncan battling in trenches against the Wallaces, grabbing boards, blocking shots, and running the offense, which Manu played off of.

    And for this series, Parker has had the best offensive stats, but Kawhi has been the overall best player considering his work on both ends. Parker can relax defensively since he has to either guard Chalmers or Cole, both non-threats. Kawhi is all over the in' court.

    But sometimes our perception is biased, which is why I go stats.
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