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Not necessarily. The Medium Three could have disappeared just before Dave and Sean got hurt.
we are light tim duncan and have considerably less les
Not necessarily. The Medium Three could have disappeared just before Dave and Sean got hurt.
and then reincarnated in time for the 2014 run
Are you asking if the Spurs would have won if they had kawhi, green, and splitter in 95? Yes
What if they had Barkley and Strickland and no Del Negro?
Robinson is not really an easy guy to build around. He's 7'1", great defender (both 1-1 and help), has a face up game like a SF, runs the floor like a gazelle, he's the type of player you would need to surround with a specific set of player to win the championship.
You can anchor your defense around him, put two decent guards around him (some one like Hornacek level), put a rugged rebounder/interior scorer (someone like mings or Buck Williams), then a SF who can slash some bit (Elliott actually works well), get a decent coach, put a decent bench around him, and you have your self a winner. In fact, you switch Robinson with Pedophile on the Jazz, and they would have won a le or two in the mid 90s.
What? Robinson is one of the easiest guys to build around. Especially if you already have elliott and rodman. All they needed was a pg and sg who can defend/shoot and voila you probably win a few les.
That and Rod Strickland sucked ass, plus he couldn't tell that Jerome Kersey of 1990 wasn't on his team until 1992.
I disagree. Robinson is too unconventional a player. I always see parallel between him and dirk. While they are obviously different players, their unique skill set requires a unique group of players to compliment them.
Rodman and Robinson didn't and wouldn't work. Having a non offensive big like rodman would allow teams to easily double off of rodman onto Robinson, and two bigs doubling Robinson while allowing the opposition to stay home off of the shooters is death.
A jazz like team with Robinson instead of pedophile would have been ideal. A sonics team with Robinson in place of Shawn kemp would work very well too. I can see Robinson replacing Barkley on the suns to work too, but there should be a dirty work guy to make this ideal. Robinson in place of Ewing would potentially too, but there are concerns about spacing in that arrangement.
Interesting that Kemp had those numbers against the Rockets. I knew he was good that season, didn't know he had that good of a run though. He really was starting to become a very good player until he pissed it all away a few seasons later.
I've read a few times where people have said that he was arguably the best player on the floor in the '96 finals, which is one of the rare times Jordan wasn't clearly head and shoulders above everyone else in a finals series. How did that happen? Did the Sonics try and take him out of the series by forcing the other Bulls players beat them, or did Jordan just have a bad series?
Gary Payton was probably the greatest MJ defender ever. Held MJ to his worst shooting performance in the finals, the glove was no joke.
On topic, Spurs was clearly overachieving in the regular seasons during the 90's, and David simply didn't get enough help in the playoffs from shooters.
It would be super interesting to see what if Tim and David's times with the Spurs were reversed, would David enjoy anywhere near Tim's success? Does he want it as much as Tim at age 38, who already won 4 les yet willed himself back to the finals once more to take out LeBron? I always thought David was the more gifted player, but Tim's understanding of the game and obsession (Kobe is the only other comparable player) was on a whole different level.
Last edited by hitmantb; 09-22-2014 at 11:11 PM.
David Robinson had to carry the Spurs on his back single-handed before Duncan arrived. In the playoffs Robinson got double and triple teamed and no one else on the Spurs could step up. In a half-court slow-down grinding playoff series Robinson's effectiveness was mitigated as the opposing teams just keyed on him. The playoffs would be painful to watch because David was stuck on a freaking island.
David would have been All-World in LA or New York, or even Houston back then. Wilt, Russell, Kareem, Shaq and Hakeem all had much better teammates surrounding them than David did when David was the main attraction in San Antonio. Is David number 6 based on that? If I'm choosing teams with all these guys in their primes it's a pretty tough call for 1 through 6.
The other thing is if Robinson played in today's game, he'd be a monster. It would be all high post jumpers, driving the lane, kick to open jumper on offense, then mobile defender who can defend the paint and help out on the perimeter.
Robinson would be the best player in today's game along with Lebron.
Exactly ... yet bags sprout crap about how Shaq was better. Hakeem had Drexler and Barkley yet dumbasses conveniently forget about that part. Spurs were truly blessed with Robinson, he lifted the team out of lottery contention and mentored Duncan to what he is now
I lived through that era. The 90's Spurs were a hard team to watch because they always fizzled out at the end of the year. On the one hand I woul agree that Robinson is underrated today. He was a great player with incredible physical gifts. At 7 ft he ran the floor with tremendous speed and was very agile for his size. He was a world class blocker and defender. He never won a championship in the mid 90's because of their crappy backcourt. Just imagine exchanging Ginobili for Del Negro on the 1995 team. That one move might win them the championship.
On the other hand, as much as I respect him as a player and person, I do think there is a little truth to the notion that DRob was not really clutch. He just didn't have that killer instinct. Also, maybe more importantly, he never developed a real "go-to" shot that he could rely on on tough games down the stretch. Whereas Duncan had several low post moves that he can get off even under the most intense defensive pressure, Robinson did not have those skills. He always used his length talent and quickness to score, but that doesn't work as well in the playoffs.
That being said, if he had better help he still could have won a championship.
Interesting point.
The way I saw it, David was a guy who, for what a spectacular player he was, didn't really care all that much about basketball early in his career. He had so many other interests and talents that he wasn't driven in a way that a guy like Jordan might have been. I saw some of the same things from Timmy when he was at Wake, and I really think he could have gone in that same direction without guidance. By the time Timmy arrived, David was beginning to see the end of his career looming, and had really started to prepare and compete in ways he hadn't earlier on. I think that perspective and influence from David was critical for Timmy.
In addition, the older vets that came and went on Spurs teams prior to the arrival of Manu and Tony really helped set the at ude of the team.
I disagree with your comments about Tim's approach to the game when he was at Wake. I grew up in NC so I remember watching Tim during the Wake Forest years. Tim was even a fierce compe or back then considering he lead Wake Forest to 3 straight ACC championship appearances. I would say WF was the building blocks that taught Tim not only the fundamentals but also how to win with less talent against stacked teams. I remember how hated Tim was down here because he always owned UNC and Duke which was the equivalent to the Lakers. I also remember after every time WF got eliminated in the NCAA tournament that Tim took it real personal that he cried. I love Drob but lets not spin it he never had the same type of fire Duncan had. He was important in Duncan's development in the sense that he prepared him for the fierce compe ion of NBA by going at him 1 on 1 everyday in practice.
Also, David had a story book ending because Tim willed himself to deliver a le that Spurs had no business of winning with the most dominant individual performance ever, took out prime Shaq/Kobe Lakers with a roster that wasn't much better than what David had to work with in 1995. Pop wasn't Pop yet and just played Tim 40 minutes a game. David retired immediately and got out at the top happily thereafter, left Tim to suffer a grueling 0.4 second defeat next year against the fabulous four Lakers.
Tim has the same perfect story book ending this year, and he chose to come back for the love of the game. David would have retired for sure if he somehow willed himself to come back and beat prime LeBron after game 6 2013, heck, he wouldn't be able to will himself back at all.
As players they are equal in my book, but Tim just wants it more.
When it comes to desire to win, David = TMac, Tim = Kobe.
Last edited by hitmantb; 09-23-2014 at 11:26 PM.
David retired because he could no longer play. He was in way worse physical shape with his back at 37 than Tim is currently at 38.
Great example of why Robinson is underrated by fans. When you can't quantify, talk about an individuals will to win in a team sport.
You know, Jordan didn't have that will to win until the 90s.
Kobe just like to have his will to win come with a dominant low post player.
Hakeem didn't really like to win in the late 80s/early 90s, but suddenly wanted it more than anybody when he was surrounded by three point shooters.
Robinson was just playing ball for s and giggles, he just like to guard shaq one on one with a bad back because he didn't play for the tee am, it's just fun to know how far your body will go before you get paralyzed and have to spend the rest of your life in a wheelchair.
Robinson gave up the reigns to Duncan, not because he wanted to win, but to test out his theory that idiots will be calling him soft for the rest of his life if he did so.
Robinson was all about himself that's why he never demanded a trade when it's clear the spurs management had no interest in building a championship team in the early 90s. That's why he came back early in a lost season so that he can break his legs. That's why he played so hard he injured his back carrying that stain of a roster to contention year after year.
I'm not sure I agree with most of your post, but the bolded part above is flat-out ridiculous. Watch the exchange with Joe Smith and Kevin Garnett in 1999. Duncan got slapped in the back of the head by Garnett after Robinson shoved him and Timmy didn't do anything about it. You can say Duncan had arrived with the same compe ive will that he's always had, but let's not say Robinson didn't have any fire, particularly later in his career.
After playing his entire career with subpar teammates, and getting a reprieve from the ping pong balls, Robinson was driven to win, doing so on a failing back, trying to cement a hall-of-fame legacy long dogged by early playoff exits and critics using the word "soft". For years he pretended not to care what was said about the Spurs' playoff failures, but clearly it sunk in.
I'm not from North Carolina, but I watched every Spurs game for most of Robinson's career, and I saw the change in him, culminating with a 13 point, 17 board finale that was overshadowed by Timmy's gaudy stat line above it in the box score. Robinson got what he wanted, and was content to witness the greatness of Tim Duncan from an expensive seat near midcourt, his version of sailing into the sunset.
Great compe or that Duncan is, I'd counter your claim by saying Timmy has never had the kind of fire Robinson played with at the end of his career, because Timmy's simply never had as much to prove as David did.
It would be interesting what position DRob would play if he was a rookie today.
giant SF? Super fast PF? He wasn't ever really a traditional center anyway
He was a center. He defended centers like Shaq and Hakeem, and he never had another 7 ft next to him till Duncan. He was just faster than any other centers.
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