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I don't see him that way, offensively. I've only watched the bulls play twice, but he plays within the offense and I don't consider him a stat padder.
but again, He is extremely overrated defensively..It's not even funny
unfortunately, his stats drop across the board during the playoffs... So far he's just another regular season stat padder...
I don't see him that way, offensively. I've only watched the bulls play twice, but he plays within the offense and I don't consider him a stat padder.
but again, He is extremely overrated defensively..It's not even funny
I'm not saying he takes bad shots, just that the flashy numbers become less flashy when the playoff pressure comes around... great players normally elevate their game at that stage, pretenders fold, tbh
That makes sense...
I agree..
Teams have to get to the playoffs first, and if a guy like Butler can get you there, that's better than some Jeff Ayers got chomping on his mouthpiece as he fumbles another one in the paint.
He's definitely better than Jeff Ayres
Besides, George "What's the ing Deal" Hill is stinking it up anyhow. Butler had a good game, not a great one, but he's getting it done.
tbh, I didn't even think the Pacers were gonna make it a game...
Pretty amazing that he's turned into a guy that is capable of putting up 40 points.
40pts cause ballhog gangbanger wasnt playing
Difference here is that Butler is 10x the defender of any of those players.
really good player not sure if he is great. obviously the fact he plays both ends gives him added value ...plus I would rather pay him the max over Hayward and players of that ilk. For example Middleton Carroll Parson etc. All got overpaid recently Butler seems to be justifying his raise. Props to him.
So? He's still not a franchise player.
DAF doesn't make a point, just posts some videos which allows him to take either side of an argument once the truth is unveiled.
No one is a franchise player until they become one.
It's amusing that people ignore Butler's game until he scores a lot of points. Defense is ignored by casual fans, but not by coaches.
The are you talking about? I stated pretty clearly that I don't think Jimmy Butler is a franchise player. Not now, not ever. If I get proven wrong I will own up to it, unlike some s that can't admit being wrong.
Bold statement. Way to stand behind your beliefs ...
Just curious. What does Butler have to do to "prove" that he's a franchise player? Stats? Playoff wins? What criteria are you using?
in a half
Be the best player of a very good team (floor of 2nd round exit with peaks of at least conference or NBA finals) for a sustained period of time (around 5 years).
Think of guys like Nash in Phoenix, Kidd in New Jersey, Harden now in Houston (in process), etc.
Last edited by DAF86; 01-04-2016 at 02:49 PM.
Harden has been the best player on his team for 5 years? Houston might not even make the playoffs this year and Harden routinely quits on his team, as he did against the Spurs. You're branding him with the franchise label? I'd rather have Butler any day of the week than Harden.
That's why I added the "in process" label. If he keeps this up, he would definitely be solidified a franchise player. Houston was a mediocre team before Harden came to average 30/7/6 for them and turn them into a perennial playoffs team and the current Western Conference finalist.
I really doubt Butler would have turned the Rockets from a lottery team into a Western Conference Finalist in just 3 years while putting the numbers Harden is putting, tbh.
This is really 2 or 3 different conversations.
1) Franchise player can mean a lot of things. If your definition is a top 30 player (meaning, the best player on every team), then yes, he is capable of that and he's already proven it. If your definition of franchise player (which this is the one I go by) is someone that can truly anchor a championship level team given the right supporting cast? I am not sure he is there quite yet, but it's possible. It's hard to gauge with him because a) the East has been so bad & b) he has shrunk some in the playoffs and hasn't shown that ceiling yet with results. Also, the Bulls have had some mediocre rosters talent-wise, especially with the Rose injuries and circus.
2) W/ regards to Harden, I don't think there is any question about Harden's ceiling vs Butlers. Even taking into consideration defense/at ude, Harden is more talented. But that's not always the end all be all. Butler is probably talented enough that in the real world (at ude, locker room, defense) you would not be an idiot for wanting him on your team. But in a bubble, yes, Harden is more talented and on the days his head is on properly, his teams will have a higher ceiling.
3) It's also about ranking him vs his peers (2-guards & guards in general). It's not just the fact guys like Harden exist, it's that other guards like Curry exist as well. While they don't play the same position, it's about comparing guards in general, their usage rates and impact on those around them.
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