Who's coming out the East?

[romsey31]

I wouldn't think a Pacers homer would say the Pistons are going to win the east, I thought it was going to be down to 3 teams Indiana, Miami, and Detroit but when you really look at things just the couple upgrades the Pistons made in getting Evans and Davis will keep them better then the Heat. I feel it comes down to this, which team will get the most out of bench.

Pacers - Detroit

PF Jonathan Bender - Antonio McDyess
F Austin Croshere - Darko Milicic toss up
F Danny Granger - Carlos Delfino toss up
C David Harrison - Dale Davis toss up
PG Sarunas Jasikevicius - Carlos Arroyo toss up
PG Anthony Johnson - Lindsey Hunter offense/defense
SG Fred Jones - Maurice Evans tie
F Scot Pollard - Jason Maxiell toss up

The only clear cut winner I see is McDyess over Bender. Milicic, Delfino, Granger, Jasikevicius, Harrison, and Maxiell haven't had enough if any playing time to determine how good they will be this upcoming season. Dale Davis (on the Pacers last year) and Arroyo have been a starters, Jones and Evans are a tie. It's really too early to tell. If Granger & Jasikevicius on Indiana or Delfino & Milicic on Detroit don't live up to their hype or "potential" this season then that team will come in second.

Because I think the Pacers are gonna win the East, I'm a Pacer Homer. Well I guess ESPN and FOXSPORTS are also homers.

[ABDENOUR POWER]

PF Jonathan Bender - Antonio McDyess - No debating this. McDyess, despite his shaky knees, was a very solid backup whereas Benders entire NBA career has been injuries.

F Austin Croshere - Darko Milicic - What's overlooked in all the fuss over Croshere's contract is that he's actually a solid player. Solid offense and rebounding, and a good "change of pace" power forward off the bench. Darko, with all due respect, has been arguably the worst player in the NBA the past 2 years, and untill proven otherwise, you have to give this to AC.

F Danny Granger - Carlos Delfino - Granger is amazing. I don't care what anyone says about Bogut, the best player in NCAA basketball last year was Danny Granger. The guy simply does it all. Only 1 player in NCAA averaged 18/9/3/2 steals - Granger. Only one player in NCAA averaged 18/9/3/2 blocks - Granger. 18/9/3/2 blocks 2 steals - Wow! His body and his smoothness is almost identical to Tracy McGrady.
Check out the Granger highlight video here. Carlos Delfino on the other hand looks like he's on his way out of the NBA. I know Pistons fans hyped him up relentlessy last season, but he was such a huge disappoint. Not only did he not have the game, but he had a piss poor at ude.

C David Harrison - Dale Davis - Davis gets the nod for now, however if Harrison improved on his very impressive rookie play, he'll not only get the nod, he could be starting before the All-Star break. 2nd in the NBA in FG% and 8th in blocks per minute as the 29th pick in the draft. Looks like the next great draft steal, I.M.O.

PG Sarunas Jasikevicius - Carlos Arroyo - Saras was the best player in Europe, period. He's got such a great reputation, and from everything I've seen he backs it up. I just got done watching the clip of Saras single handedly beating team USA in the Olympics las year. Lith was down by 4 with 3 minutes to go, and Saras goes on a tear, scoring the final 12 points in the game for Litj in under 3 minutes, as USA watches on in horror knowing they cant stop him. Simply breathtaking. Arroyo had one solid year in Utah, but ever since then he's been El Averago with a questionable at ude. Noone reasonable can honestly take Arroyo over Saras.

PG Anthony Johnson - Lindsey Hunter - I was close to going with push here, but then I looked things over. Johnsons not only a better scorer and distributor, but he's also about equal on defense. Anthony Johnson recieiver votes for the NBA All-Defense team this year, Lindsay Hunter did not. So your offense/defense claim is inaccurate. Overall Johnson is a better player, plain and simple.

SG Fred Jones - Maurice Evans - Fred Jones was fantastic for the Pacers last year. While our top guys were out, Fred Jones tepped up and became a leader for our team. He's also a really productive player, scoring in double figures in less than 29 minutes a game, not to mention he's a very respectable defender because of his combonation of speed, strength, athleticism, and long arms. Maurice Evans was an ok backup for Sacramento, but Fred Jones is atleast 2 notches above him on the NBA ladder.

F Scot Pollard - Jason Maxiell - You gotta go with the underrated Pollard. He's not much of a scorer, but the man can rebound and defend like a madman. Maxiell has a nice at ude on the court, but he's so undersized he really has no shot in the NBA. He's basically a smaller Reggie Evans, and thats not good news for Pistons fans.

IMO...

•McDyess > Bender
•Milicic < Croshere, but that could easily change.
•Granger = Delfino. Delfino was doing great until he got injured and LB broke his confidence. Now that Brown is gone, he could perform well.
•Davis > Harrison
•Jas vicoius = Arroyo. It remains to be seen if Jasikevicius can make the move to the NBA.
•Hunter = Johnson. I really don't think that Johnson's defense is anywhere near as good as Hunter's. Nor is Hunters offense anywhere near as good as Johnson's.
•Jones = Evans

[JamStone]

Antonio McDyess v. David Harrison ... those will likely be the two first big men off the bench. I'd give the edge to McDyess.

Carlos Arroyo v. Saras Jasikevicius ... I'd give the edge to Saras, but I'd like to see Saras defend on the NBA level as well. Offensively, he is supposed to be great, but we'll see how the rest of his game adapts to NBA size, skill, and speed. While Arroyo might not be as good as Saras skill-wise, he has at least proven he has the leadership and toughness to at least earn a starting point guard role in the NBA, which alone says something about him that Saras has yet to claim. But, I won't deny that Saras is better if he lives up to the reputation he has built in Europe. Edge Saras.

Fred Jones v. Maurice Evans ... I don't have a problem giving the edge to Freddie, but I wouldn't say he's "at least two notches above him" because both are certified back-up players. And, being a 6-foot-2 shooting guard also poses disadvantages to Freddie, regardless of his exceptional athletic ability. When Evans was afforded the opportunities of playing time last year, he played fairly well. And, as a back-up role player, he should be fine. He is not far behind in terms of athletic ability to Fred Jones, plus his size and strength will allow him to play some small forward. But, for now, Fred Jones would be ahead in this match up.

Danny Granger v. Carlos Delfino ... I wouldn't give either player an advantage until at least 20 games into the season. Danny Granger may have had exceptional college numbers, but you also have to remember what college conference he was in, his teammates, and his compe ion. Aside from Utah, what other really strong teams did New Mexico face? How far again did New Mexico make it in the NCAA tournament? Plus, his numbers are bloated somewhat because Granger even played some point guard in college because his teammates were not at his level. He defended centers sometimes. His numbers are that much better because his teammates were not that good, as well as his compe ion. I guarantee you Granger does not get anywhere near those numbers playing for a big ten, acc, or sec school. And, if you're going to look at Granger's last year in college, look at Delfino's last year in Euro league, where he was a leader of a team that went to the championship game, where he posted very good numbers. Granger may very well be the better player, but let him prove it on the NBA stage first. No advantage.

Dale Davis v. Scot Pollard ... GIve it to Dale Davis. Scot doesn't even play unless it's garbage time or there are several injuries in the frontcourt.

Lindsey Hunter v. Anthony Johnson ... are you really going to argue over which team has the better third string point guard? Anyway, I thought the Pacers were going to keep Eddie Gill as the number 3 PG. Lindsey Hunter is older, but has had the better career. AJ had better numbers last year, because he was the primary back up point guard and got more minutes. AJ is not a bad defensive player, but Allen Iverson has been quoted as saying Lindsey Hunter is the toughest defender he's faced. But, anyway, again, who cares about the third string quarterback?

Darko Milicic v. Austin Croshere ... Croshere is not a bad back-up PF. He's not a good back-up PF either. But, he is certainly better than Darko at this stage.

Jason Maxiell v. Jonathan Bender ... like the third string PG, who cares who wins this matchup? Neither will see meaningful minutes. And, if either does, that means someone important on their team is hurt bad, and that means that team is in trouble.


HAVING WRITTEN ALL THAT ... It's still a team game. A team might win more individual matchups at positions and still not be the better team.

Indiana looks very strong on paper. And, I suspect they will have a very good year. But, I don't automatically hand them victories just because they look better on paper. It will be an interesting match up if Detroit and Indiana meet in the playoffs. And, either team could win.

[ChumpDumper]

Johnsons not only a better scorer and distributor, but he's also about equal on defense.

Hunter caused Beno to cease to exist in the Finals.

Advantage: Hunter.

[romsey31]

Antonio McDyess v. David Harrison ... those will likely be the two first big men off the bench. I'd give the edge to McDyess.

Carlos Arroyo v. Saras Jasikevicius ... I'd give the edge to Saras, but I'd like to see Saras defend on the NBA level as well. Offensively, he is supposed to be great, but we'll see how the rest of his game adapts to NBA size, skill, and speed. While Arroyo might not be as good as Saras skill-wise, he has at least proven he has the leadership and toughness to at least earn a starting point guard role in the NBA, which alone says something about him that Saras has yet to claim. But, I won't deny that Saras is better if he lives up to the reputation he has built in Europe. Edge Saras.

Fred Jones v. Maurice Evans ... I don't have a problem giving the edge to Freddie, but I wouldn't say he's "at least two notches above him" because both are certified back-up players. And, being a 6-foot-2 shooting guard also poses disadvantages to Freddie, regardless of his exceptional athletic ability. When Evans was afforded the opportunities of playing time last year, he played fairly well. And, as a back-up role player, he should be fine. He is not far behind in terms of athletic ability to Fred Jones, plus his size and strength will allow him to play some small forward. But, for now, Fred Jones would be ahead in this match up.

Danny Granger v. Carlos Delfino ... I wouldn't give either player an advantage until at least 20 games into the season. Danny Granger may have had exceptional college numbers, but you also have to remember what college conference he was in, his teammates, and his compe ion. Aside from Utah, what other really strong teams did New Mexico face? How far again did New Mexico make it in the NCAA tournament? Plus, his numbers are bloated somewhat because Granger even played some point guard in college because his teammates were not at his level. He defended centers sometimes. His numbers are that much better because his teammates were not that good, as well as his compe ion. I guarantee you Granger does not get anywhere near those numbers playing for a big ten, acc, or sec school. And, if you're going to look at Granger's last year in college, look at Delfino's last year in Euro league, where he was a leader of a team that went to the championship game, where he posted very good numbers. Granger may very well be the better player, but let him prove it on the NBA stage first. No advantage.

Dale Davis v. Scot Pollard ... GIve it to Dale Davis. Scot doesn't even play unless it's garbage time or there are several injuries in the frontcourt.

Lindsey Hunter v. Anthony Johnson ... are you really going to argue over which team has the better third string point guard? Anyway, I thought the Pacers were going to keep Eddie Gill as the number 3 PG. Lindsey Hunter is older, but has had the better career. AJ had better numbers last year, because he was the primary back up point guard and got more minutes. AJ is not a bad defensive player, but Allen Iverson has been quoted as saying Lindsey Hunter is the toughest defender he's faced. But, anyway, again, who cares about the third string quarterback?

Darko Milicic v. Austin Croshere ... Croshere is not a bad back-up PF. He's not a good back-up PF either. But, he is certainly better than Darko at this stage.

Jason Maxiell v. Jonathan Bender ... like the third string PG, who cares who wins this matchup? Neither will see meaningful minutes. And, if either does, that means someone important on their team is hurt bad, and that means that team is in trouble.


HAVING WRITTEN ALL THAT ... It's still a team game. A team might win more individual matchups at positions and still not be the better team.

Indiana looks very strong on paper. And, I suspect they will have a very good year. But, I don't automatically hand them victories just because they look better on paper. It will be an interesting match up if Detroit and Indiana meet in the playoffs. And, either team could win.

I really like your analysis. I'm gonna give the edge to Detroit right now because they seem to have a menal toughness over Indiana, and the fact that they are currently the Eastern Champs. I think That Indy can defeat Detroit though, but we'll just have to wait and see.

[THE X-FACTOR]

Hunter caused Beno to cease to exist in the Finals.

Advantage: Hunter.

Hunter also came into the game everytime AJ stepped on the court in the Pacers series and AJ had trouble even bringing the ball over half court.

Everyone had good points on their bench breakdowns except for "The Artest Factor".

p.s. ESPN and FOXSPORTS also picked Miami to win the east last year and they were wrong, if you want to base your season off of that go ahead.

[SoupIsGood]

Hunter also came into the game everytime AJ stepped on the court in the Pacers series and AJ had trouble even bringing the ball over half court.

He did but that's not any different than how he normally plays.

[romsey31]

Hunter also came into the game everytime AJ stepped on the court in the Pacers series and AJ had trouble even bringing the ball over half court.

Everyone had good points on their bench breakdowns except for "The Artest Factor".

p.s. ESPN and FOXSPORTS also picked Miami to win the east last year and they were wrong, if you want to base your season off of that go ahead.

No I wont base my season off that, I'll just base it off whatever you say oh mighty one.

[The Artest Factor]

Hunter also came into the game everytime AJ stepped on the court in the Pacers series and AJ had trouble even bringing the ball over half court.

Everyone had good points on their bench breakdowns except for "The Artest Factor".

p.s. ESPN and FOXSPORTS also picked Miami to win the east last year and they were wrong, if you want to base your season off of that go ahead.

Miami had the series all but won before Wades injury. I'm starting to think the Pistons purposely injure other teams star players. I seem to recall Ben Wallace "accidentally" hyperextending Jermaine O'Neals knee in the 2004 ECF.

[picnroll]

Wade injured himself on a crossover dribble. How did Detroit do that? In fact it was Jermaine who kneed Shaq in the thigh. Maybe that was deliberate to help the Pacers getg past Miami should they meet. Dumbass.

[ABDENOUR POWER]

[THE X-FACTOR]

I love how when certain people keep talking they just dig themselves deeper into the holes they've already dug and end up agreeing with me.

[ABDENOUR POWER]

Hey X, you're from the pistons boards, right? Our boards don't even compare to these ones....

[Pistons < Spurs]

Hey X, you're from the pistons boards, right? Our boards don't even compare to these ones....

Soooooooooooo True.

[ABDENOUR POWER]

Whats your name over there? I recognize your sig but can't remember your name....

[THE X-FACTOR]

Hey X, you're from the pistons boards, right? Our boards don't even compare to these ones....

Everyone here isn't a homer or a hater, at our board we either have those who hate players like Milicic, Prince, and Delfino or won't admit when someone has a bad game or playoffs. People here seem to have a better overall basketball IQ. I don't see many "Rip is so cute" or "trade Darko" type topics started here. They will even admit when another team or player is decent.

[timvp]

Hunter caused Beno to cease to exist in the Finals.

Advantage: Hunter.

True.

Best defensive point guards in the NBA...

1) Hunter
2) Billups
.
.
.
.
195) Nash

[1Parker1]

People here seem to have a better overall basketball IQ. I don't see many "Rip is so cute" or "trade Darko" type topics started here.

Who the think Rip Hamilton is cute?!...Now Darko....

[z0sa]

I'm gonna go with Miami. Detroit will have a hard time adjusting to Flip...I recall that Detroit struggled for a bit last season when Brown initally left for his surgery. Indiana...I think people are overemphasizing the impact Artest will have on a "resurged" Indiana team. Losing Reggie Miller will be most noticeable to Indy during tight close games as will his leadership.

Miami.......you can't go wrong with a half healthy Shaq and a fully healthy Dwayne Wade. The rest of those additions may or may not mesh well, however, same could be said for the Spurs. Miami has the best talent and potential.

First of all, I really, really respect Artest's game... he's formerly defensive player of the year, and yet he can put up big offensive numbers. I think his impact will be the greatest of all upon Indiana next year, and I'm almost basing my entire opinion that Indy will make it out of the east on him. With the new rookies, I think they're definitely redeemed le contenders. Let's not even count Jermaine O'Neal, who last year was plagued by injury and never really got it going.

Also, Miami added a starter in JWill; we added no starters... and Antoine Walker knows only ballhogging as does JWill. So when does Shaq and Wade get into picture?

[dunkman]

I think that Indiana had Pistons number, and that was before Brown got fired. Only Artest crazyness or a smart Dumars trade can change that.

Indiana shouldn't allow Dale Davis to sign with the Pistons, and if they dont sign Cambell, they will have many problems guarding Shaq.

And the Heat made a mistake changing so many playes in the off season. They may have chemistry issues.

I would chose the Pacers to win this year, but the other teams... the Heat, the Pistons and even the Nets have good chances too.

[Chris]

True.

Best defensive point guards in the NBA...

1) Hunter
2) Billups
.
.
.
.
195) Nash

1.)Iverson
2.)Lebron
3.)Brevin Knight
4.)Billups
.
.
.
8.)Hunter

5-7 could be Marbury, Kidd, or Wade in any order.

[timvp]

1.)Iverson
2.)Lebron
3.)Brevin Knight4.)Billups
.
.
.
8.)Hunter

5-7 could be Marbury, Kidd, or Wade in any order.

Uh ... LeBron, Knight, Marbury and Kidd are some of the worst defenders in the league.

Sorry.

[SoupIsGood]

Kidd is a very good defender.

[Chris]

Uh ... LeBron, Knight, Marbury and Kidd are some of the worst defenders in the league.

Sorry.

Iverson and James both lead the league in steals and are both great at rebounding. Billups is a decent defender but definitely not top ten material or even 2 for that matter. I was being generous putting him at 4 now that I think about it. Hunter is a good defender but not the best in the game. They looked great in the finals but overall they are outclassed.

[timvp]

Kidd is a very good defender.

He used to be a very good defender. After he hurt his knee, every speed guard in the league blew by him.