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Yeah!
Sincerely,
PLEEEEEEASE tell me you're not this naive!
The federal government should have been there way before this? Should have been where exactly?
Fixing the levees? Go take a government course before you start arguing about government. This is the STATE AND LOCAL government's job. NOT the federal government's. The fed govt is here to ASSIST WHEN ASKED TO.
Yeah!
Sincerely,
My Responses are italicized...
My point exactly TOP! Thanks...
Love that BUS picture...Talk about IRONY!
That is the most immoral thing I have heard you say yet.
Perhaps we should just shove them in ovens and be done with them?
Oh wait, I think I remember hearing something like this before....
``At this festive season of the year, Mr Scrooge,'' said the gentleman, taking up a pen, ``it is more than usually desirable that we should make some slight provision for the Poor and des ute, who suffer greatly at the present time. Many thousands are in want of common necessaries; hundreds of thousands are in want of common comforts, sir.''
[i]``Are there no prisons?'' asked Scrooge.
``Plenty of prisons,'' said the gentleman, laying down the pen again.
``And the Union workhouses?'' demanded Scrooge. ``Are they still in operation?''
``They are. Still,'' returned the gentleman, `` I wish I could say they were not.''
``The Treadmill and the Poor Law are in full vigour, then?'' said Scrooge.
``Both very busy, sir.''
``Oh! I was afraid, from what you said at first, that something had occurred to stop them in their useful course,'' said Scrooge. ``I'm very glad to hear it.''
``Under the impression that they scarcely furnish Christian cheer of mind or body to the mul ude,'' returned the gentleman, ``a few of us are endeavouring to raise a fund to buy the Poor some meat and drink, and means of warmth. We choose this time, because it is a time, of all others, when Want is keenly felt, and Abundance rejoices. What shall I put you down for?''
``Nothing!'' Scrooge replied.
``You wish to be anonymous?''
``I wish to be left alone,'' said Scrooge. ``Since you ask me what I wish, gentlemen, that is my answer. I don't make merry myself at Christmas and I can't afford to make idle people merry. I help to support the establishments I have mentioned: they cost enough: and those who are badly off must go there.''
``Many can't go there; and many would rather die.''
``If they would rather die,'' said Scrooge, ``they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population. Besides -- excuse me -- I don't know that.''
``But you might know it,'' observed the gentleman.
``It's not my business,'' Scrooge returned. ``It's enough for a man to understand his own business, and not to interfere with other people's. Mine occupies me constantly. Good afternoon, gentlemen!''
``At this festive season of the year, Mr Scrooge,'' said the gentleman, taking up a pen, ``it is more than usually desirable that we should make some slight provision for the Poor and des ute, who suffer greatly at the present time. Many thousands are in want of common necessaries; hundreds of thousands are in want of common comforts, sir.''
Walking speed is normally about 3 mph.
Hurricanes speed is generally close to 20 mph.
In two days you can walk if you move fast enough 120 miles, assuming you walk 80% of the time, have proper food and water, and are physically capable of doing so.
In two days a hurricane can move 480 miles. You lost the race to get out of the way, and are trapped on a highway built over a swamp in 150 mph winds. Ooops.
Nice try. You are trying to rationalize your immorality, and it doesn't work.
They knew where the storm was going more than 2 or three days BEFORE it hit landfall.
Federal relief didn't get to new orleans until almost a week AFTER.
They had at least 48 hours to get ready. the Canadian Army got there before our federal government did.
Ahhh, so each state in the United states should have a fully stocked, emergency management agency, I see. 50 states duplicating each other's efforts in a massively wasteful way is MUCH better than a centralized, organized response that can help several states simultaneously.
Gawd, you have sucked in the GOP talking points without doing any critical thinking for yourself. Not sure I can argue with that.
So let me see if I get this straight...
You hold the federal government entirely 100% blameless for this?
The executive branch, controlled by the GOP had zero culpability for the failure of the response here?
I just want to know exactly what you are saying.
Tell that to the Mayor. Tell that to the governor.
As husker said, states have sovereignty. State and local governments have primary responsibility in dealing with local disasters. NOT THE FEDERAL GOVT. You seem to not understand that fact.
As said so by the New Orleans Charter, the government has jurisdiction and responsibility in disaster response.
I'm not saying the federal govt don't share blame. They do. What I'm trying to get you to understand is that they're not the biggest ones to blame.Federal relief didn't get to new orleans until almost a week AFTER.
The local and state govts had PLENTY of time to fix the levees. As you should already know, the levees breaking is what caused the most damage. Not the hurricane itself. Had they been fixed, a lot of lives could've been spared.
The city already had an emergency plan which was not put into use. See here:Ahhh, so each state in the United states should have a fully stocked, emergency management agency, I see. 50 states duplicating each other's efforts in a massively wasteful way is MUCH better than a centralized, organized response that can help several states simultaneously.
http://www.cityofno.com/portal.aspx?portal=46&tabid=26
That "centralized, organized response" we call FEMA was formed to coordinate federal response to major disasters, and ASSIST local and state governments.
Tell me how the governor of Florida was able to successfully lead disaster responses to hurricanes and the Louisiana governor wasn't?
Another question: How well were the Louisiana National Guards put to use?
If it's "democrats stupid, republicans blameless" go ahead and say it, so we can all know where you stand on this. Political balderdash that ignores the whole truth.
Jesus said quite a few other things about helping the poor that don't quite fit with "it sucks to be them".
I mean if you aren't much for Judeo-Christian ethics, say so, and I will stop.
"Be merciful just as your father is merciful. And do not judge and you will not be judged. And do not condemn and you will not be condemned. Pardon, and you will be pardoned. Give, and it will be given to you..."
Jesus said a lot about giving and not judging.
"Whoever receives this child in my name receives me."
Your actions towards your fellow man are basically your actions towards God.
Refugees or refusees, your duty as a human being is to help, not judge. If you give in to the smallness of spirit evidenced by "it sucks to be them" or similar, I can only pray for your soul.
(my prior post was aimed more at hussker, just in case that isn't clear)
I think we are more than half in agreement here.
I do understand that state and local governments have responsibilities in disasters, honest.
But what happens when a disaster is so bad that those governments stop functioning?
The real question is why they didn't prepare for a "so bad".
exactly, they knew that a storm of this magnitude could hit the city, why didnt they prepare? cost too much, going to spend to much of the \states tax money? look at what they are gonna have to pay now, including the rest of the US not just louisiana
I think it's healthy to have a debate about where/if any mistakes or breakdowns were made in the chain of command in our government, so that if a disaster like this strikes our country again (as it surely will, unfortunately) we can all be better prepared. Everyone from teh President to the Mayor should sit down for one long film session on what went right and what went wrong.
But it's just plain wrong (and quite frankly, pointless) to blame the victims themselves, as Hussker has done. It's also crudely elitist to suggest the average hurricane victim is so stupid he or she will spend his or her FEMA money on high-end electronics rather than food, clothing, and other necessities.
Furthermore, our tax money goes toward a lot of things that not everyone agrees on. But we pay our taxes anyway. Some people don't have kids and feel like they shouldn't have to pay for public education. Too bad. Some people don't have cars and feel like they shouldn't have to pay for road maintenance. Too bad. It's over and done with and thousands of people are dead and many more thousands are left with nothing at all of their lives and because you feel you're smarter than them, Hussker, you don't think your taxes should help them out a little. Too bad.
The Florida mayor didn't have to do that, though.
Anyway, yeah I agree people should learn about this so history doesn't repeat itself.
I think it would be refreshing if people would be willing to concede just a little when they turn this into a political debate. For example, I'm not a fan of the President, but I don't think he's racist and I don't think he took a callous toward New Orleans because it's mostly poor and black and I don't think he was disappointed about having to end (yet another) vacation to step in and try to get a handle on this.
By the same token if those of you who do like Bush would admit, just once in a while, that he's human and fallible, it would make it easier for people like me to admit that he possesses some positive qualities, like compassion and intelligence.
Here's what I'm getting at. One of the big revelations of this whole thing is that Michael Brown, who Bush appointed to head FEMA as a political favor, is wholly, woefully unqualified. Can you at least admit that it was terribly short-sighted of the President to appoint a man who had zero emergency management experience to head up an agency that might, in case a hurricane hit the Gulf coast, need to be expertly run? Are you willing to admit that if the right person had been in that position, things might have turned out a little bit differently?
You're asking me? Yeah, I agree w/ everything you said.
Whew! (You didn't think I expect Hussker to admit I might have a point, did you?)
Well, then, turnabout's fair play. I completely agree with you that the mayor should've done everything within his power to help those who didn't have the means to get out by themselves.
Moving 50 miles inland makes a MAJOR difference when you are talking about hurricane damage and costal flooding.
BINGO
This is the REASON the President, VP, Gov etc does not want them on TV
If everbody became even more irate, Congress, Bush, Nagian, Blanco would
take so much heat that maybe they would fix things or god forbide lose
votes(sheep)
If body bags of the folks from IRAQ, along with pics of those that have been maimed were shown on TV maybe we will get the H out of IRAQ, PDQ
In the 60's folks got tired of seeing soilders die on the evening news and this
was one of the reason for the revolt against the WAR.
I recently described myself as a reformed liberal.
I voted for Bush and I still choose him over the traitor Kerry,
but to put it mildly he is begining to PISS ME OFF
FIRE MR BROWN NOW, don't just kick him upstairs.
A President must choose good, experienced people.
He didn't/hasn't MAKE IT RIGHT.
Last edited by AFE7FATMAN; 09-10-2005 at 06:09 AM.
What person in their right mind would want to see them on tv?
Go to "decomposed/bloatedbodies.com" to get your thrills. Only true nutcases believe that BS!
I don't want to see them. I want people that have never seen bodies
like these to see them, maybe then they will help create so much H
that the next time a hurrican hits, people will get thier together.
BTW I zipped enough body bags in NAM. I also took all the new folks
that came to the unit to the Army morgue in order that when they felt like whinning about how it was the being in the AF, working in AC office
or on the flight line, they would be tankful they were not in the REAL ING WAR but only subject to rockets, mortars, and 9 year old kids.
BTW JOCK FU and pardon the spelling I can't type when I'm pissed
I just wonder how many of those dead in the streets decided to ride the storm out, not that I am blaming them if they had no means to get out .. but we are still pulling people out of house's that decided not to leave... even after a recent order by nagin to get the out... to the point of using police force to get them out...
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