Cavs: Phil Jackson: LeBron James travels half the time he catches the ball

[ambchang]

PJ's way was vastly different than Pop's way. I think Pop is the better strategist and also proven he could adapt to different styles ...so I have no issue with POP's place as a top 3 all-time coach.
But to be fair the Phil, not sure Pop could have manged Rodman, Artest as well as Phil. We will never know but I think a case can be made that Pjax was better than Pop at that ...

Jackson was probably the best ego manager of all time, Daly was maybe the only equal in that regard.

Jackson adjusted to different styles, I know people talk about the triangle a lot, but you have to admit, and no trolling here, the 09/10 ten was an inside out team. You cannot seriously say the Lakers won the championships because of Kobe's offense, it was due to the crazy advantage they have with their massive and skilled frontline.

Then the Shaq Lakers were ran quite a bit differnetly from the 90s Bulls.

[Thread]

Jackson was probably the best ego manager of all time, Daly was maybe the only equal in that regard.

Jackson adjusted to different styles, I know people talk about the triangle a lot, but you have to admit, and no trolling here, the 09/10 ten was an inside out team. You cannot seriously say the Lakers won the championships because of Kobe's offense, it was due to the crazy advantage they have with their massive and skilled frontline.

Then the Shaq Lakers were ran quite a bit differnetly from the 90s Bulls.

Yeah, he managed their ego's right into the '04 ter,,,Daddy's plane leaving for Miami shortly thereafter. We left God knows how many on the table because those two couldn't see the light & Jackson failed to force them. Why? Jackson is flawed just like the next asshole in the line. Confirmed twixt '10 & '11 after he whistled past a prone Perkins in '10 never imagining, not for one for ing second that Cubes (or all the other watchful assholes in the line) wasn't layin' in the weeds that Perkins & Powe - Perkins & Wallace laid in---with Chandler & Nowitski. ~La dee dee da dee da~..."nobody noticed the pattern." Oh, no, nobody, Phil, so when Gasol got his hole busted wide open whom did Phil blame? Of course not himself, he blamed Pau. Then, THEN, THEN, then they wanted to trade him. LMAO!

Phil Jackson was good. But, he wasn't that good.

[Killakobe81]

Yeah, he managed their ego's right into the '04 ter,,,Daddy's plane leaving for Miami shortly thereafter. We left God knows how many on the table because those two couldn't see the light & Jackson failed to force them. Why? Jackson is flawed just like the next asshole in the line. Confirmed twixt '10 & '11 after he whistled past a prone Perkins in '10 never imagining, not for one for ing second that Cubes (or all the other watchful assholes in the line) wasn't layin' in the weeds that Perkins & Powe - Perkins & Wallace laid in---with Chandler & Nowitski. ~La dee dee da dee da~..."nobody noticed the pattern." Oh, no, nobody, Phil, so when Gasol got his hole busted wide open whom did Phil blame? Of course not himself, he blamed Pau. Then, THEN, THEN, then they wanted to trade him. LMAO!

Phil Jackson was good. But, he wasn't that good.

Some solid points Thread, can't disagree ...

[Killakobe81]

Yeah, he managed their ego's right into the '04 ter,,,Daddy's plane leaving for Miami shortly thereafter. We left God knows how many on the table because those two couldn't see the light & Jackson failed to force them. Why? Jackson is flawed just like the next asshole in the line. Confirmed twixt '10 & '11 after he whistled past a prone Perkins in '10 never imagining, not for one for ing second that Cubes (or all the other watchful assholes in the line) wasn't layin' in the weeds that Perkins & Powe - Perkins & Wallace laid in---with Chandler & Nowitski. ~La dee dee da dee da~..."nobody noticed the pattern." Oh, no, nobody, Phil, so when Gasol got his hole busted wide open whom did Phil blame? Of course not himself, he blamed Pau. Then, THEN, THEN, then they wanted to trade him. LMAO!

Phil Jackson was good. But, he wasn't that good.

Some solid points Thread, can't disagree ...

[UZER]

Phil can't even get his team to the playoffs in the lousy east, so he attacks the game instead.

Classic Phil.

[Killakobe81]

Jackson was probably the best ego manager of all time, Daly was maybe the only equal in that regard.

Jackson adjusted to different styles, I know people talk about the triangle a lot, but you have to admit, and no trolling here, the 09/10 ten was an inside out team. You cannot seriously say the Lakers won the championships because of Kobe's offense, it was due to the crazy advantage they have with their massive and skilled frontline.

Then the Shaq Lakers were ran quite a bit differnetly from the 90s Bulls.

I wouldnt say they won it because of either or it was a byproduct of both. Pau did some of his best work for us out the high post getting Bynum and Kobe easy looks. Lamar's versatility (much like Horry's before him) was also key as well as Fisher's leadership Ariza and later MWP's defense and PJ's coaching. Not sure what is your obsession even if not trolling to place all the credit on the Laker's frontline I wouldnt place it all on Kobe either. I dont think the 2009-2010 Lakers were even all that great a team definitely one of the weaker repeat champs ... but Kobe and PJ will always get the lion share of the credit no matter how much you on here otherwise or make up like big man dependent but it truly was a team effort ...

[RsxPiimp]

the Lakers won the championships due to the crazy advantage they have with their massive frontline

Meh, you're making it sound like it was truly a massive frontline. Bynum wasn't very reliable in those runs. It was really Pau operating down low for the most part.

[hater]

He moves to another city 1/2 time he loses in the playoffs tbqh

[ambchang]

Yeah, he managed their ego's right into the '04 ter,,,Daddy's plane leaving for Miami shortly thereafter. We left God knows how many on the table because those two couldn't see the light & Jackson failed to force them. Why? Jackson is flawed just like the next asshole in the line. Confirmed twixt '10 & '11 after he whistled past a prone Perkins in '10 never imagining, not for one for ing second that Cubes (or all the other watchful assholes in the line) wasn't layin' in the weeds that Perkins & Powe - Perkins & Wallace laid in---with Chandler & Nowitski. ~La dee dee da dee da~..."nobody noticed the pattern." Oh, no, nobody, Phil, so when Gasol got his hole busted wide open whom did Phil blame? Of course not himself, he blamed Pau. Then, THEN, THEN, then they wanted to trade him. LMAO!

Phil Jackson was good. But, he wasn't that good.

That's more about Shaq and Kobe than Phil.

Phil managed Rodman, Artest, and Jordan. Two of them are certified insane, and the third one a psychopath if there ever was one.

Shaq was childish, Kobe was ambitious, and it clashed. The most difficult part about the Shaq-Kobe feud was that both sides are right, and both sides are wrong.

Who do you have as a better ego-manager than Phil though?

[ambchang]

I wouldnt say they won it because of either or it was a byproduct of both. Pau did some of his best work for us out the high post getting Bynum and Kobe easy looks. Lamar's versatility (much like Horry's before him) was also key as well as Fisher's leadership Ariza and later MWP's defense and PJ's coaching. Not sure what is your obsession even if not trolling to place all the credit on the Laker's frontline I wouldnt place it all on Kobe either. I dont think the 2009-2010 Lakers were even all that great a team definitely one of the weaker repeat champs ... but Kobe and PJ will always get the lion share of the credit no matter how much you on here otherwise or make up like big man dependent but it truly was a team effort ...

As long as you realized that MVPau and the frontline was what drove the Lakers offense. It's very frustrating seeing those people mouth off about how Kobe carried the Lakers to 5 championships, especially that b2b when he really deserve that big of a piece of the pie.

[ambchang]

Meh, you're making it sound like it was truly a massive frontline. Bynum wasn't very reliable in those runs. It was really Pau operating down low for the most part.

And he was great. MVPau's ability to work the post, pass, and draw attention in the post allowed the Lakers to really draw in the defense and let them score.

Look, in 2010, MVPau's Orating was 120 and 126 in the playoffs, Bynum came in second at 117 and 119, Vujicic actually came in third before Kobe made it, and it was mostly because of his ability to nail the outside shot and the fact that he plays most of his minutes with MVPau and Kobe anyways.

The story is similar in 09 with Odom and Fisher instead of Bynum and Sasha.

[Killakobe81]

As long as you realized that MVPau and the frontline was what drove the Lakers offense. It's very frustrating seeing those people mouth off about how Kobe carried the Lakers to 5 championships, especially that b2b when he really deserve that big of a piece of the pie.

No i didnt say that I said it was a team effort. Kobe was the star so he gets most of the credit ... you can pull whatever random stat out of your ass ...that's just the way it is ...but why does it frustrate you so much? WGAF? That was over 5 years ago you think some random stat is gonna make someone change their minds?

Get over it and yourself. We get it ... it was primarily MVPAu ... move on to a new topic.

[ambchang]

No i didnt say that I said it was a team effort. Kobe was the star so he gets most of the credit ... you can pull whatever random stat out of your ass ...that's just the way it is ...but why does it frustrate you so much? WGAF? That was over 5 years ago you think some random stat is gonna make someone change their minds?

Get over it and yourself. We get it ... it was primarily MVPAu ... move on to a new topic.

Of course it frustrates me as a fan of basketball that people do not understand the reasons for success. It's annoying.

Like how those programmers are always annoyed at Apple fanbois (I am one, sort of), or how I am annoyed at kids who think Lebron is the GOAT, or even in the conversation, or how I am annoyed that people think Kanye West is a good rapper.

Ignorance annoys me.

BTW, those are not just "some random stats". I agree those are not perfect, but they sure tells a whole lot about players, and more indicative than traditional stats. It's not the be-all-and-end-all, but when there are multiple stats pointing to the same thing, you have to at least look at them and ask yourself if your original stance is valid or not.

[Killakobe81]

Of course it frustrates me as a fan of basketball that people do not understand the reasons for success. It's annoying.

Like how those programmers are always annoyed at Apple fanbois (I am one, sort of), or how I am annoyed at kids who think Lebron is the GOAT, or even in the conversation, or how I am annoyed that people think Kanye West is a good rapper.

Ignorance annoys me.

BTW, those are not just "some random stats". I agree those are not perfect, but they sure tells a whole lot about players, and more indicative than traditional stats. It's not the be-all-and-end-all, but when there are multiple stats pointing to the same thing, you have to at least look at them and ask yourself if your original stance is valid or not.

Kanye is a good rapper LOL, not a top 5 GOAT level but compared to most of the modern losers he is good. and although not the GOAT Lebron was building a case he just failed ...

[Thread]

That's more about Shaq and Kobe than Phil.

Phil managed Rodman, Artest, and Jordan. Two of them are certified insane, and the third one a psychopath if there ever was one.

Shaq was childish, Kobe was ambitious, and it clashed. The most difficult part about the Shaq-Kobe feud was that both sides are right, and both sides are wrong.

Who do you have as a better ego-manager than Phil though?

That's a cop out. Jackson is canonized for stretching the two out on his couch and shrinking their gourds till they joined hands and ran off three-in-a-row. Great detente, never heard the end of it. What, he can't give 'em a refresher course when they once again threaten divorce? Phil got lazy, slovenly and turned loose of the wheel. I guess three-a-in-row will do that. That was his responsibility, his lookout. Let him own that failure. He earned it. & LF has to suffer the consequence. And it is a bitter one.

[ambchang]

Kanye is a good rapper LOL, not a top 5 GOAT level but compared to most of the modern losers he is good. and although not the GOAT Lebron was building a case he just failed ...

Kanye isn't a good rapper, he's just good compared to crap. There hasn't really been a good rapper in years.

Lebron shouldn't be in the same level has Jordan as most kids make it out to be. He's not in top level yet, and it was purely due to 11 vs. the Mavs. I don't hold 07 or this year against him. In fact, I thought he was phenomenal this year and just didn't have a strong enough cast to push through (his own fault). I am also more and more irked that he pulls these Larry Brown moves all the time, and hurting himself and the franchise. He thinks he knows more than he really does, and come out a dumbass.

[ambchang]

That's a cop out. Jackson is canonized for stretching the two out on his couch and shrinking their gourds till they joined hands and ran off three-in-a-row. Great detente, never heard the end of it. What, he can't give 'em a refresher course when they once again threaten divorce? Phil got lazy, slovenly and turned loose of the wheel. I guess three-a-in-row will do that. That was his responsibility, his lookout. Let him own that failure. He earned it. & LF has to suffer the consequence. And it is a bitter one.

Some couples can't be forced together with the best arbitrators, it happens. Kobe and Shaq, with their egoistic childish personalities are not meant to work together.

That said, Jackson owns the responsibility by driving them further apart to create this oneupsmanship between the two to make them play their best. It worked for a year (02, because even Kobe knew it was Shaqs team in 00 and 01), but then fell apart after that.

I don't know if you can call Jackson lazy, maybe just exhausted.

[Kool Bob Love]

Kanye isn't a good rapper,

Stick to basketball takes b.

[Killakobe81]

Stick to basketball takes b.

This. Ye is better than most of the clowns big right now ...the Drake's etc. Kendrick and Jcole some of the few worth a right now ...

[Thread]

Some couples can't be forced together with the best arbitrators, it happens. Kobe and Shaq, with their egoistic childish personalities are not meant to work together.

That said, Jackson owns the responsibility by driving them further apart to create this oneupsmanship between the two to make them play their best. It worked for a year (02, because even Kobe knew it was Shaqs team in 00 and 01), but then fell apart after that.

I don't know if you can call Jackson lazy, maybe just exhausted.

Yes, Jackson failed after he succeeded. At least here, he owns both.

[ambchang]

Stick to basketball takes b.

This. Ye is better than most of the clowns big right now ...the Drake's etc. Kendrick and Jcole some of the few worth a right now ...

You guys are just lowering the bar. Drake isn't even a rapper. Just horrible horrible stuff.

[Killakobe81]

You guys are just lowering the bar. Drake isn't even a rapper. Just horrible horrible stuff.

No Listen to get em high off the College Dropout, Touch the sky or diamonds from Late Registration, Champion from the third album almost all of Dark Twisted Fantasy ... even Black skin head off of Yeezus the guy has been one of the most prolific hip hop artists that actually doesnt do stripper music. He actually has intellect and lyrics that are deep ...

[baseline bum]

Dude who coached Jordan wants to about players travelling?

[ambchang]

No Listen to get em high off the College Dropout, Touch the sky or diamonds from Late Registration, Champion from the third album almost all of Dark Twisted Fantasy ... even Black skin head off of Yeezus the guy has been one of the most prolific hip hop artists that actually doesnt do stripper music. He actually has intellect and lyrics that are deep ...

I mean Drake had horrible stuff.

Kanye West is meh. He had a few good albums at the beginning, but the latest stuff is just cashing in on his old stuff. Nothing revolutionary. Compare him to the old school guys like Rakim, Jay-Z, 2Pac, Big, Nas, Snoop, Outcast, and even Eminem, and West immediately gets exposed.

[Killakobe81]

I mean Drake had horrible stuff.

Kanye West is meh. He had a few good albums at the beginning, but the latest stuff is just cashing in on his old stuff. Nothing revolutionary. Compare him to the old school guys like Rakim, Jay-Z, 2Pac, Big, Nas, Snoop, Outcast, and even Eminem, and West immediately gets exposed.

Jay is a nice dude with skills but how many songs had a real message? He has so many #1 hits and crossover success and I really enjoy the Black Album and all the Blueprints and of course Reasonable Doubt but he liek Snoop and Big were great storytellers but the stories lack soul. Now Outkast especially andre 3000, Nas and Em and Pac are on a different level because they did crossover but they have songs that can tell stories but also stir your spirit.

Jay to me is like MJ ...one of the best to ever do it but so many copied his style and focused on punch lines metaphors, money hoes and clothes that rap became to much about style and lacked substance even if Jay did have so much more to offer people focused on the wrong stuff (like only on MJ's dunks) when both had much more to offer. You can blame the state of the NBA post MJ on Jordan indirectly and state of hip-hop on Jay.

I agree early Kanye is better but he is still one of the best Twisted dark is up there for me with his best work. But I wont lie some of my favorite Ye stuff is collabos so I would rate him below Andre, Em, Nas, Qtip, Rakim and Jay ...not that they did not collabo ...but he also gets some bonus points for his production