Harriet Tubman Wins Vote To Replace Andrew Jackson On $20 Bill

[Spurminator]

Another article about tweets!

[Shastafarian]

You mean under Van Buren's watch, but sure. People attribute the Trail of Tears of AJ frequently, but he was already retired when that happened. Not that he wasn't a white supremacist; he just didn't do much of anything physically against Native Americans during his terms.

lolwut

He pushed the Indian Removal Act and was president during the removal of at least 3 large tribes. The 2nd Seminole War was also fought during his presidency.

[Chinook]

lolwut

He pushed the Indian Removal Act and was president during the removal of at least 3 large tribes. The 2nd Seminole War was also fought during his presidency.

I said physically. He did a lot of legislative things, but those were things that were also in the works before he was even in office. And the war was one of like three that took place over 40 years, and most of it was fought under Van Buren anyway.

[Shastafarian]

I said physically. He did a lot of legislative things, but those were things that were also in the works before he was even in office. And the war was one of like three that took place over 40 years, and most of it was fought under Van Buren anyway.

Cool excuses. Why can't you just say, "yeah maybe I generalized too much"? His administration oversaw PHYSICAL removal of people from their homeland. A war was fought, with thousands dying, against native americans while he was president. None of this even takes into consideration what he did prior to becoming president.

[Spurminator]

Jackson has a pretty decent Broadway musical about him. They'll never take that away.

[Chinook]

Cool excuses. Why can't you just say, "yeah maybe I generalized too much"?

How about no? I didn't make that claim blindly. I didn't generalize too much. I said exactly what the I meant to knowing exactly what you were going to say.

His administration oversaw PHYSICAL removal of people from their homeland. A war was fought, with thousands dying, against native americans while he was president.

A war is hardly the same thing as the genocide that the Trail of Tears was. Those wars were inevitable considering the way America was expanding. We can about the things our ancestors did all we want, but there wouldn't be a US without it. There were just too many other people for it to happen peacefully. Does that justify the horror? No. But it's a such a fundamental part of this nation's history that we just have to accept that it happened without thinking that dishonoring the historical figures somehow cleanses our guilt.

None of this even takes into consideration what he did prior to becoming president.

Yeah, and neither did the post I quoted. If that post had been, "Jackson was a supremacist asshole who did a lot of physical harm to Native Americans before his presidency", I wouldn't have said about it.

[Shastafarian]

How about no? I didn't make that claim blindly. I didn't generalize too much. I said exactly what the I meant to knowing exactly what you were going to say.

Oh so you knew about Jackson removing tribes and overseeing wars against natives and made the comments anyway. That's pretty brave.

A war is hardly the same thing as the genocide that the Trail of Tears was.

The scope of each is irrelevant with respect to your incorrect historical statement.

Those wars were inevitable considering the way America was expanding. We can about the things our ancestors did all we want, but there wouldn't be a US without it. There were just too many other people for it to happen peacefully. Does that justify the horror? No. But it's a such a fundamental part of this nation's history that we just have to accept that it happened without thinking that dishonoring the historical figures somehow cleanses our guilt.

Don't care. I was responding to your factual inaccuracies, per usual.

Yeah, and neither did the post I quoted. If that post had been, "Jackson was a supremacist asshole who did a lot of physical harm to Native Americans before his presidency", I wouldn't have said about it.

So you're saying Andrew Jackson wasn't president during, and didn't oversee, the deaths of thousands of native americans? You're actually going to stick by this?

[cd021]

Would love the out of that bill. Reminds me of that Assassin's Creed game.

That would be pretty dope.

Duly noted on the Van Buren comment. Either way the trail of tears was a move.

[Chinook]

Oh so you knew about Jackson removing tribes and overseeing wars against natives and made the comments anyway. That's pretty brave.

It's called having perspective and being able to appropriately guess what cd was referring to. You lacked that, so you jumped of on something else.

Don't care. I was responding to your factual inaccuracies, per usual.

You should care, because your comment is stupid without context.

So you're saying Andrew Jackson wasn't president during, and didn't oversee, the deaths of thousands of native americans? You're actually going to stick by this?

I'm actually going to stick by Jackson not being president during the Trail of Tears, which again was actually want cd was talking about. You brought up Jackson's pre-presidential days, and I didn't disagree with you on those. But they weren't in the frame of the debate until you brought them up.

I haven't said Jackson is some great man that needs to be defended. So I have no interest in defending the man's character. But the ToT is something that gets attributed to Jackson all the time, and that's not really true.

[Chinook]

That would be pretty dope.

Duly noted on the Van Buren comment. Either way the trail of tears was a move.

Yeah, it's part of family history for me. My grandmother would spit whenever someone mentioned Jackson. Never saw her with a 20 either.

[Shastafarian]

It's called having perspective and being able to appropriately guess what cd was referring to. You lacked that, so you jumped of on something else.

Oh so cd was referring ONLY to the Cherokee trail of tears?

You should care, because your comment is stupid without context.

Which comment are you referring to? My assertion that your response is comprised of bull , sprinkled in with know-it-all arrogance?

I'm actually going to stick by Jackson not being president during the Trail of Tears, which again was actually want cd was talking about. You brought up Jackson's pre-presidential days, and I didn't disagree with you on those. But they weren't in the frame of the debate until you brought them up.

You might want to ask the Choctaw nation if they think Jackson wasn't president during their own trail of tears where an estimated 2-5 thousands people died en route to their new lands west. That happened in 1831 btw.

I haven't said Jackson is some great man that needs to be defended. So I have no interest in defending the man's character. But the ToT is something that gets attributed to Jackson all the time, and that's not really true.

lol the Cherokee trail of tears maybe. Here, have a history lesson on me

https://web.archive.org/web/20080604...aw/trtears.htm

Does it hurt to be so wrong?

[Trill Clinton]

Jackson has a pretty decent Broadway musical about him. They'll never take that away.

I thought that was hamilton?

[Chinook]

Oh so cd was referring ONLY to the Cherokee trail of tears?

Maybe. That's certainly the one most people talk about.

Which comment are you referring to? My assertion that your response is comprised of bull , sprinkled in with know-it-all arrogance?

Lol, you saying things like "comprised of" while asking (EDIT: I couldn't even make it a sentence) intellectually superior. I was talking about you thinking that casualties in a war as the same thing as genocide. Are you talking about all the Germans FDR allowed to be killed, the Mexicans Polk killed under Polk? British killed under Madison?

More importantly, there's only so far you can go logically trying to curse the past without damning the present. You can hate the people who removed native tribes all you want, but they were absolutely essential to this country. It's ludicrous to talk about how awful it was to displace native people while continuing to live on the land they used to inhabit.

You might want to ask the Choctaw nation if they think Jackson wasn't president during their own trail of tears where an estimated 2-5 thousands people died en route to their new lands west. That happened in 1831 btw.

I'll talk to them about using the term.

Does it hurt to be so wrong?

I don't mind being wrong at all. You learn that way. I do mind you acting as if you knew that before you looked it up. But yeah, I will concede that I wasn't looking at the other tribes when thinking about the ToT.

[Pelicans78]

Tubman was a Republican

[Shastafarian]

Maybe. That's certainly the one most people talk about.

Yet cd didn't even mention it. But rather he said "a tattoo tear to represent the thousands of Native Americans that were killed on his watch as president". Do you still dispute that?

Lol, you saying things like "comprised of" while asking (EDIT: I couldn't even make it a sentence) intellectually superior. I was talking about you thinking that casualties in a war as the same thing as genocide. Are you talking about all the Germans FDR allowed to be killed, the Mexicans Polk killed under Polk? British killed under Madison?

More importantly, there's only so far you can go logically trying to curse the past without damning the present. You can hate the people who removed native tribes all you want, but they were absolutely essential to this country. It's ludicrous to talk about how awful it was to displace native people while continuing to live on the land they used to inhabit.

This is some real intellectual dishonesty right here. We can't sharply criticize monsters because we have benefited, 170 years after the fact, the ends those monsters strove for.

I'll talk to them about using the term.

Maybe you should since the actual term "Trail of Tears" originated with the Choctaw forced migration.

I don't mind being wrong at all.

You learn that way. I do mind you acting as if you knew that before you looked it up. But yeah, I will concede that I wasn't looking at the other tribes when thinking about the ToT.

Didn't have to look it up to know how wrong you were. Just needed to find a good article detailing what I remembered about the Choctaw and other native tribes who were forced out under Jackson.

So you admit your statement about Jackson's presidency being relatively benign with respect to native americans is complete bull ?

[Chinook]

Yet cd didn't even mention it. But rather he said "a tattoo tear to represent the thousands of Native Americans that were killed on his watch as president". Do you still dispute that?

I don't dispute what the tattoo says. But I do dispute that it makes sense for him to have one.

This is some real intellectual dishonesty right here. We can't sharply criticize monsters because we have benefited, 170 years after the fact, the ends those monsters strove for.

It's a very empty criticism. Like if your family got rich because your great ancestor was a pirate lord, are you going to give back all the money? If not, does it really matter if you "sharply criticize" what your ancestor did?

Maybe you should since the actual term "Trail of Tears" originated with the Choctaw forced migration.

All right.

Didn't have to look it up to know how wrong you were. Just needed to find a good article detailing what I remembered about the Choctaw and other native tribes who were forced out under Jackson.

Didn't have to look for a good one. I would have taken a Wiki article.

So you admit your statement about Jackson's presidency being relatively benign with respect to native americans is complete bull ?

Indeed, I do. cd021, I apologize for calling you out. I was mistaken. As for you Shastafarian, I admit you were right, and I appreciate you informing me of where I was wrong. And I'm being honest. I'd rather come out of here knowing I was wrong and "losing" than thinking I was right just because I "won".

[boutons_deux]

Another article about tweets!

so your buddies racist tweets aren't valid.

[boutons_deux]

Tubman was a Republican

When Republicans were sane. 19th, even 20th century Republicanism is long dead.

[Pelicans78]

When Republicans were sane. 19th, even 20th century Republicanism is long dead.

Democrats are no better with their attempts to socially engineer society with their radical left-wing agenda.

[boutons_deux]

Democrats are no better with their attempts to socially engineer society with their radical left-wing agenda.

you full of bull . VRWC/Repug/BigCorop have rigged USA into World Champion inequality, and 40M people on public assistance, etc, etc, etc.

[rmt]

How much is this change going to cost? Maybe we ought to concentrate on important topics like jobs and our $19 trillion debt instead of whose face is on what bill. Same with the transgender topic - how much of the population does this affect? I really don't care what law is passed or not passed - I'm gonna use my common sense and not go into/send my daughter into any bathroom that has any male-looking person in it - just wait until said person comes out or find another bathroom.

[SpursforSix]

How much is this change going to cost? Maybe we ought to concentrate on important topics like jobs and our $19 trillion debt instead of whose face is on what bill. Same with the transgender topic - how much of the population does this affect? I really don't care what law is passed or not passed - I'm gonna use my common sense and not go into/send my daughter into any bathroom that has any male-looking person in it - just wait until said person comes out or find another bathroom.

You're not considering the two jobs it's going to create for a graphic designer and a draftsman.

[rmt]

You're not considering the two jobs it's going to create for a graphic designer and a draftsman.

What two jobs - you mean the couple of hours it'll take to come up with the master - not even enough hours to qualify for Obamacare.

[Spurminator]

I thought that was hamilton?

Bloody Bloody Andrew Jackson

[baseline bum]

You're not considering the two jobs it's going to create for a graphic designer and a draftsman.